Sale Confirmed: The Michael Jordan Thread

[Diop]

Maybe we should make Clifford a scout instead

[wilson115]

Plowright wasn't kidding about reopening old wounds. Reading that was masochism.

[Rich4114]

Maybe we should make Clifford a scout instead

We've got it backwards. Cliff should be GM and Mitch should be HC.

[Bassman]

I’ve been pondering a question that, likely, has no singular answer:

WHY did Jordan sell the vast majority of his NBA franchise?

Seriously, this is a man who was consumed by basketball, by winning, by being the DOMINANT player of all time. Being an owner in HIS league was important to him. So why? I have theories and would appreciate everyone’s input and ideas. Again, I think they all played a role, so in no particular order of importance:

1. Money - the value of his ownership has never been higher, so a good time to sell at peak market. This also is influenced by….
2. Racing Team - Jordan LOVES NASCAR, grew up watching it, and is very involved in his 23XI team. There is chatter of them adding more cars (and they are building additional garage space for that) so extra cash may be needed to purchase charters.
3. Frustration - I think this is a major motivator on a number of levels. MJ must have been every bit as frustrated at the lack of success as we are. He got involved in various ways trying to push these players and the team to perform with the same iron will and personal investment he made. When it gets little traction with a generation of players focused on “having fun” he decided to give up. This didn’t happen all at once. We all noticed how distracted he’d seemed over the last couple of years.

To me those are the big three. Probably other factors, or maybe something none of us could ever know.

[Rich4114]

I'm not so sure Jordan is as consumed with basketball and winning as his playing days reputation suggests. I think he's into a lot of other things that make winning a championship with his NBA team a little diluted. This is all my personal speculation of course. But when you add in the fact that he's very much a gambler, he may also look at it a little bit like that. Gambling on owning the Bobcats, did some good (especially community wise). Got the name back, brought the all star game back, etc. Now he cashes in a return most people could never dream of so he wins (financially). Either way, probably the best owner this franchise (old and new) has ever had but obviously not capable of putting the right basketball people around him to take the next step forward. Let's hope the new dudes are.

[yosemiteben]

Read on Twitter

[Walt Cronkite]

https://theathletic.com/4989701/2023/10/25/michael-jordan-hornets-oral-history/

There is a link to the whole piece, pretty good. Seems MJ became less hands on over time but was always available for the players.

[LofJ]

The GOAT is back. This is actually kinda exciting.

Read on Twitter

[fatlever]

The GOAT is back. This is actually kinda exciting.

Read on Twitter

So he can barely lift a finger for the past decade to help promote the team that he ran into the ground. He refuses to speak to local media for almost a decade. Refuses to ever use his stature as the goat to to help our franchise. But now he's ready to go on NBC as a talking head so he can trash talk modern players? The last thing the lead needs is more old bitter players from the 80s and '90s talking s*** about the current product. And we all know Jordan is not going to be complimentary towards anything. Talking s*** is what he does best.

Sent from my SM-G973U using RealGM mobile app

[LofJ]

The GOAT is back. This is actually kinda exciting.

Read on Twitter

So he can barely lift a finger for the past decade to help promote the team that he ran into the ground. He refuses to speak to local media for almost a decade. Refuses to ever use his stature as the goat to to help our franchise. But now he's ready to go on NBC as a talking head so he can trash talk modern players? The last thing the lead needs is more old bitter players from the 80s and '90s talking s*** about the current product. And we all know Jordan is not going to be complimentary towards anything. Talking s*** is what he does best.

Sent from my SM-G973U using RealGM mobile app

Jordan was MIA for most of his tenure as team owner, but it's water under the bridge at this point. I feel like he has to have mellowed out at this point. If he's acting like Shaq during broadcasts that is NOT what the NBA needs. We'll see I guess, but I'm cautiously optimistic that he might actually be an insightful commentator.

[fatlever]

I hope you're right. It would be great to get the insight of Jordan on today's game. It's not like he's been absent from the game seeing as how he has been involved in decision making over the past 15 years. But yeah I absolutely don't want nbc to just turn into the tnt crew where all they do is bash the product and only respect players or teams that are nba champions everything else is pointless. The league really needs to get away from that conversation.

[Braggins]

I hope you're right. It would be great to get the insight of Jordan on today's game. It's not like he's been absent from the game seeing as how he has been involved in decision making over the past 15 years. But yeah I absolutely don't want nbc to just turn into the tnt crew where all they do is bash the product and only respect players or teams that are nba champions everything else is pointless. The league really needs to get away from that conversation.

NBA basketball is so good right now that I can't believe this conversation can ever get any oxygen. I appreciate all the past eras, but I honestly think the 90s NBA was actually uniquely bad and worse than the 70s/80s, which is why I find it so weird that this is the era so many pine for. The level of play right now is bonkers and blows the 90s out of the water in terms of entertainment and strategic depth and the league is more talented than its ever been. Saying NBA basketball was better in the 90s should get someone laughed out of the room imo.

Watch on YouTube

[fatlever]

The 90s is only nostalgic to me because the Hornets were actually good during that decade. Otherwise I agree that the actual brand of basketball was overrated, But I do miss some of the great low post centers and mid range merchants that have been removed from the game. And the officiating during that decade into the early 2000s was problematic at best, And completely and totally geared towards getting certain players and markets further into the playoffs at worst. Although I do think the early 2000s basketball was worse than the 90s basketball - That was a frustrating era it was very ugly grinded out one on one isolation focused basketball which I loathed.

[SWedd523]

While the sentiment rings true that the talent top to bottom is better than it ever has been, I don't see any argument for the current era over others in terms of entertainment and whatever "strategic depth" is supposed to mean.


There is currently 1 brand of basketball being played right now. Shoot the three. If the three isn't there, foul bait, then shoot a three.

There is no diversity, no stylistic differences, no SSOL, Twin Towers, Detroit Defense, Triangle, Big/Small, Low post game variation.

If your team shoots the three better, you're going to win the game.

It's boring, ugly, and has been destroyed by analytics.

[KembaWalker]

NBAs peak was 2008-2014, that was the actual time when you could succeed with the widest range of strategies/player archetypes as well as effective and most importantly, entertaining balance of three level scoring.

edited to correct a second effective to entertaining*

[fatlever]

While the sentiment rings true that the talent top to bottom is better than it ever has been, I don't see any argument for the current era over others in terms of entertainment and whatever "strategic depth" is supposed to mean.


There is currently 1 brand of basketball being played right now. Shoot the three. If the three isn't there, foul bait, then shoot a three.

There is no diversity, no stylistic differences, no SSOL, Twin Towers, Detroit Defense, Triangle, Big/Small, Low post game variation.

If your team shoots the three better, you're going to win the game.

It's boring, ugly, and has been destroyed by analytics.

Analytics is a fickle mistress. At first it improves things only to eventually completely destroy it and turn it into a soulless money making death spiral. Basketball being played today is essentially the lean six Sigma equivalent of basketball. Just like every publicly traded corporation today they will find a way to suck every penny out of the product while removing any ounce of joy in your life. And that's sometimes what the basketball that swedd Describes feels like... At its worst.

That's why I'm rooting for teams that kind of play the opposite style. Denver with their center-oriented cutting offense and Indiana with their incredibly fast paced motion ball movement offense.

At least one encouraging thing that we have seen in these playoffs is teams returning to using more of a twin tower setup. We've seen several teams go Ultra Big in these playoffs with success.

[fatlever]

NBAs peak was 2008-2014, that was the actual time when you could succeed with the widest range of strategies/player archetypes as well as effective and most importantly, effective balance of three level scoring.

Yeah that's a good point. Phoenix reviving fast break basketball in motion offense which had basically been completely removed from the game in the previous 10 years. You had teams still employing low post center-oriented offenses. You had a few teams inching towards three point shooting offenses. Had some teams living and dying by tough defense. And you still had superstars operating in the mid range.

[Braggins]

NBA peak is around 2014 to the present. The Heatles, 2010s Spurs, and Steph Warriors, all converging around the same time basically set the league on the right trajectory. All three brought a major innovation that combined to form the core of how the game is played now. Spurs with return of euro style or pre-90s NBA ball movement, Heatles with small ball + space and pace, and Warriors with the 3pt revolution. Elements of all of these have existed in basketball in various times/places (not so much the extent of 3pt shooting tbf). All of these elements being major focuses at the same time with this level of talent is unprecedented in the NBA.

The game is never going back to being like it was in any previous era because the way teams played in previous eras after the introduction of the 3pt line werent even optimal under the rulesets they were playing under. They may have been more optimal for their time period than they would be now, but teams still should have been shooting tons of 3s at every point in time that the 3pt line has existed in the NBA. The 3pt line isn't going to be removed.

I'm not a 90s hater. Reggie Miller will probably always be my all time favorite player. However, the way the league started to hyperfocus their strategy around the illegal defense rules in that era (90s + early 2000s, especially 95-05) combined with the lack of utilization of the 3pt line led to absolutely awful basketball that was terrible for the advancement of the league and sport in general. There is more variance in play style now compared to 90s NBA.

edit: credit also to the SSOL Suns teams

[fatlever]

according to jay williams, jordan was a good owner because he made a lot of money.

https://fadeawayworld.net/nba-media/jay-williams-dismisses-notion-michael-jordan-was-horrible-nba-team-owner

"They said my GOAT was a horrible owner," Williams said. "That he couldn't build a winner, that the Hornets never made a deep playoff run, that Charlotte was a failure. They didn't know s*** about business. Let's actually dig into the numbers.

"In 2010, he buys the Bobcats, the Bobcats for $275 million," Williams stated. "They're bleeding $30 million a year. Small market, trash attendance, no brand equity, no playoff pedigree. But Jordan wasn't buying rings; he was buying position. He turned a $25-30 million personal investment into a $3 billion sale. That's a 10x return, over $2 billion in realized profit. It just ran laps around most PE firms.

"And what most people don't get [is], most NBA teams aren't in the green," Williams continued. "At least 15 to 18 franchises operate at losses every year. Why J-Will? Why does this happen? Because when you stack superstars, you don't just pay salaries. You trigger luxury tax, you fund charter upgrades, increased security, private chefs, 24/7 medical staff, authorized travel, housing stipends.

"All that comes with something we call capital calls," Williams added. "And every round of the playoffs, you don't win, that's red ink with no offset. So while you're laughing at Charlotte missing the playoffs. Jordan was the only one in the room not wiring in more capital. He never chased stars. He never cracked the luxury tax. Not even once.

"He kept costs lean, he ran even a positive, and by 2022, Charlotte pulled $94 million operating profit," Williams shared. "That's more margin than the Lakers and Nets posted combined. You still call that mediocrity? The market calls it mastery. He didn't just flip the team; he revived it."

[luciano-davidwesley]

according to jay williams, jordan was a good owner because he made a lot of money.

https://fadeawayworld.net/nba-media/jay-williams-dismisses-notion-michael-jordan-was-horrible-nba-team-owner

"They said my GOAT was a horrible owner," Williams said. "That he couldn't build a winner, that the Hornets never made a deep playoff run, that Charlotte was a failure. They didn't know s*** about business. Let's actually dig into the numbers.

"In 2010, he buys the Bobcats, the Bobcats for $275 million," Williams stated. "They're bleeding $30 million a year. Small market, trash attendance, no brand equity, no playoff pedigree. But Jordan wasn't buying rings; he was buying position. He turned a $25-30 million personal investment into a $3 billion sale. That's a 10x return, over $2 billion in realized profit. It just ran laps around most PE firms.

"And what most people don't get [is], most NBA teams aren't in the green," Williams continued. "At least 15 to 18 franchises operate at losses every year. Why J-Will? Why does this happen? Because when you stack superstars, you don't just pay salaries. You trigger luxury tax, you fund charter upgrades, increased security, private chefs, 24/7 medical staff, authorized travel, housing stipends.

"All that comes with something we call capital calls," Williams added. "And every round of the playoffs, you don't win, that's red ink with no offset. So while you're laughing at Charlotte missing the playoffs. Jordan was the only one in the room not wiring in more capital. He never chased stars. He never cracked the luxury tax. Not even once.

"He kept costs lean, he ran even a positive, and by 2022, Charlotte pulled $94 million operating profit," Williams shared. "That's more margin than the Lakers and Nets posted combined. You still call that mediocrity? The market calls it mastery. He didn't just flip the team; he revived it."

Just gross. This is why blind faith fandom only encourages mediocrity.

You have to boycott bad ownership if you want to see change. Either force them to change their ways or sell.