Geometry: The Frank Kaminsky Thread

BlackOutBuzz · Post #721 » by **BlackOutBuzz** » Sun Jul 5, 2015 12:59 pm

After one game...can there be a middle ground between Larry Bird and "too predictable to be sustainable"?

Post #722 » by **BigSlam** » Sun Jul 5, 2015 1:59 pm

BlackOutBuzz wrote:After one game...can there be a middle ground between Larry Bird and "too predictable to be sustainable"?

Not after just one game. The catch and shoot and pump fake/go left is from college as well.

mrknowitall215 · Post #723 » by **mrknowitall215** » Sun Jul 5, 2015 2:13 pm

EwingSweatsALot wrote:Why do they play Orlando Summer League in a church gym?

I believe it's the Orlando Magic's practice facility

mrknowitall215 · Post #724 » by **mrknowitall215** » Sun Jul 5, 2015 2:15 pm

gothehornets wrote:is he better than cody zeller you think? honest question

Too early to tell, but based on translatable skill sets I would have to lean towards answering "yes"

BlackOutBuzz · Post #725 » by **BlackOutBuzz** » Sun Jul 5, 2015 2:38 pm

BigSlam wrote:
BlackOutBuzz wrote:After one game...can there be a middle ground between Larry Bird and "too predictable to be sustainable"?

Not after just one game. The catch and shoot and pump fake/go left is from college as well.

I'm not sure what you were expecting then. He was still a college player 3 months ago, we give most of our draft picks years to improve/build on their game. I'm not the biggest fan either but he played really, really well in this one.

KembaWalker · Post #726 » by **KembaWalker** » Sun Jul 5, 2015 2:42 pm

even if Frank only had 2 go to moves, thats 2 more than any big we've ever drafted

Post #727 » by **BigSlam** » Sun Jul 5, 2015 2:59 pm

BlackOutBuzz wrote:
BigSlam wrote:
BlackOutBuzz wrote:After one game...can there be a middle ground between Larry Bird and "too predictable to be sustainable"?

Not after just one game. The catch and shoot and pump fake/go left is from college as well.

I'm not sure what you were expecting then. He was still a college player 3 months ago

My point is that he could get away with that against college and SL players but will he be able to get away with it against NBA players?

I'm not the biggest fan either but he played really, really well in this one.

We'll have to agree to disagree. He played an All World 3rd qtr but outside of that I think he was pretty ordinary in the 1st, 2nd and 4th. As someone else pointed out he didn't really rack up rebounds by fighting for position or by using superior judgement - they just fell to him and I thought he was beyond bad on defence - and I mean made Big Al look like prime KG on D bad.

we give most of our draft picks years to improve/build on their game.

Totally agree with this though, he's only been in the NBA for 1 game (and the fake NBA at that)!! It is nice to have a rookie who looks like he belongs out there. That long ball stroke of his sure is pretty as well. Looks like he could see the floor pretty well and made good, quick decisions with the ball in the high post - which is better than Cody playing the high post role, catching the ball, standing there for 5 seconds not knowing what to do and then just handing it back to the Kemba.

Frank in the high post and Big Al in the low post is going to be awesome on offence I think. Will leave a lot to be desired on the defensive end though.

Hornet Mania · Post #728 » by **Hornet Mania** » Sun Jul 5, 2015 3:00 pm

KembaWalker wrote:
BigSlam wrote:How long is it going to take for the rest of the NBA to figure out that he either catch and shoots from range or pump fakes then goes left 95% of the time and then starts stopping him?

You don't exactly have your whole NBA repertoire figured out by day 1 of summer league. The only takeaway that mattered from that game was that we can see he has legitimate 3pt range. and that is really the only question about Frank that the summer league is capable of answering, so everyone should really be satisfied at this point. summer league is 75% scrubs running around like chickens with their heads cut off playing a system they've practiced for 3 days with a bunch of guys they barely know.

Agree 100%. I'm not going to judge Kaminsky one way or another until he's actually playing real NBA games, and I effing HATE that we selected him over Winslow. Right now (and we'll see how this holds up through the rest of SL) it looks like he's a consistent threat from behind the NBA arc, which as you noted is all we can really judge from these games. If he was bricking treys left and right that would be major cause for concern, but so far he looks as advertised as a stretch big.

At the same time even if he's summer league GOAT it means nothing. He's not being asked to defend real NBA talent for the most part, and even the guys there who are destined for good careers are in early stages of their development, so there's no way to be sure he won't be getting killed on that end when he sees legit opposition. He's also seeing very soft defensive pressure, summer league defense makes Morris Almond look like prime Iverson, so no way to project how his offense will really translate.

Looks like he's a legit threat from 3 though, and I hope that holds up over the remaining games.

Post #729 » by **BigSlam** » Sun Jul 5, 2015 3:00 pm

KembaWalker wrote:even if Frank only had 2 go to moves, thats 2 more than any big we've ever drafted

He certainly was a lot more impressive than Okafor, Biyombo, Cody or Vonleh at the same point (1 SL game) of their careers.

Post #730 » by **BigSlam** » Sun Jul 5, 2015 3:05 pm

KembaWalker wrote:
BigSlam wrote:How long is it going to take for the rest of the NBA to figure out that he either catch and shoots from range or pump fakes then goes left 95% of the time and then starts stopping him?

The only takeaway that mattered from that game was that we can see he has legitimate 3pt range. and that is really the only question about Frank that the summer league is capable of answering, so everyone should really be satisfied at this point.

Absolutely agree - and you make a good point.

The other shining light after the 1 game is that not only does he seem to have that not range, but he actually has a willingness to shoot it - and apart from PJ and Kemba (both of who don't appear to be good shooters at all- and Pargo in garbage time!!) we don't ever seem anyone even willing.

I love that about Frank. He took good shots in the flow of the offence.

Post #731 » by **BigSlam** » Sun Jul 5, 2015 3:08 pm

Hornet Mania wrote:If he was bricking treys left and right that would be major cause for concern

Wasn't he 1-9 before getting white hot in the 3rd and then finished in the 4th something like 0-5?

BlackOutBuzz · Post #732 » by **BlackOutBuzz** » Sun Jul 5, 2015 3:08 pm

BigSlam wrote:We'll have to agree to disagree. He played an All World 3rd qtr but outside of that I think he was pretty ordinary in the 1st, 2nd and 4th. As someone else pointed out he didn't really rack up rebounds by fighting for position or by using superior judgement - they just fell to him and I thought he was beyond bad on defence - and I mean made Big Al look like prime KG on D bad.

The first half was blah but I thought the second was great, maybe I just haven't differentiated between the third and fourth quarters though.

I realize his defense wasn't great, but I think you may be exaggerating a bit with the AL-KG comment haha. He and Al can be really scary on both offense and defense, for different reasons.

Post #733 » by **BigSlam** » Sun Jul 5, 2015 3:09 pm

Interning that he only took that 1 FTA as well?

(which was a 3pt play off a nice drive when he went nuts in the 3rd).

KembaWalker · Post #734 » by **KembaWalker** » Sun Jul 5, 2015 3:17 pm

best thing he can do for his defense is put that high bball iq to work and become a master charge taker/flopper. He sure won't be stopping anything at the rim.

Post #735 » by **BigSlam** » Sun Jul 5, 2015 3:26 pm

KembaWalker wrote:best thing he can do for his defense is put that high bball iq to work and become a master charge taker/flopper. He sure won't be stopping anything at the rim.

He wasn't even looking in the right direction half of the time. The amount of time he had his back to the play on defence was bothersome to me - as was his lack of effort. I don't remember him challenge more than 1 or 2 shots - and he rarely left his feet.

Qvale looked much better on D.

Post #736 » by **BigSlam** » Sun Jul 5, 2015 3:29 pm

I assume he'll match up against Jarnell Stokes today? Really looking forward to that because with his size, quickness and skill set Frank should have an absolute day out.

I'm what I'm really looking for from him is four even quarters by Frank and him lighting Memphis up.

Post #737 » by **JDR720** » Sun Jul 5, 2015 3:29 pm

his defense will probably always be bad, short arms and not a good athlete. i dont know why some think we can get away with a Frank/Cody starting frontcourt, thats asking for trouble IMO.

Post #738 » by **BigSlam** » Sun Jul 5, 2015 3:38 pm

JDR720 wrote:his defense will probably always be bad, short arms and not a good athlete. i dont know why some think we can get away with a Frank/Cody starting frontcourt, thats asking for trouble IMO.

Totally agree.

BlackOutBuzz · Post #739 » by **BlackOutBuzz** » Sun Jul 5, 2015 3:39 pm

JDR720 wrote:his defense will probably always be bad, short arms and not a good athlete. i dont know why some think we can get away with a Frank/Cody starting frontcourt, thats asking for trouble IMO.

Defensively they'll be better than any combo involving Al. Cody has become a strong defender pretty quickly. Short arms, but if he puts his athleticism to use it won't matter as much.

NCHeels2008 · Post #740 » by **NCHeels2008** » Sun Jul 5, 2015 3:42 pm

One thing to remember on Frank re:defense is the below players "weaknesses" section upon being drafted

Lackluster lateral foot speed (but not as slow as some say he is)...Not an explosive leaper...Room for improvement at the free throw line...Decent in the open court, but not outstanding

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/andrew-bogut

That's andrew bogut, the guy who almost won defensive player of the year. I'm not saying Frank ever gets there, but players can still improve in the league and in unexpected directions. People would've been shocked in 06 if you told them Bogut would be anchoring the top defense in the league in 9 years. Frank's obviously going to be great for us offensively right away, but I wouldn't give up all hope on defense.

Heavy legged player who will need to improve his foot speed to play in the NBA Lacks fluidity in his movements as he is a bit mechanical Must continue to work on conditioning his body as he appears to be carrying a little extra weight A focus on strength training could improve his overall mobility greatly Lacks the explosiveness to be even a decent shot blocker at the NBA level Not a very good rebounder out of position, as he possesses below average lateral quickness Post defense has improved greatly this year but still struggles when having to guard top athletes Offensively his execution in the post is slow which allows opposing defenders to recover quickly, must learn to make moves more decisively Can be a little foul prone Not a great help defender by any means as he is often late on the play Even though Gasol is a late bloomer who has yet to reach his potential hes made big strides in the past year

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/marc-gasol

This was the writeup on Marc Gasol. Because of the Todd Fullers and Greg Montrosses, any big white guy who isn't insanely athletic is going to have a bad defensive rep coming into the league. As prospects it's partially earned but also a victim of stereotype.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think Frank will ever be a "plus" defender, but it is quite possible.