30 Point Threshold - Noah Vonleh Thread

[TheKingofSting]

Hopefully Vonleh makes Clifford look like an idiot.

[mrknowitall215]

Hornets rookie forward Noah Vonleh inching closer to meaningful playing time

Is Charlotte Hornets rookie Noah Vonleh finally in line to play more this season?

Maybe.

The circumstances are suddenly working in Vonleh’s favor. Injuries to center Bismack Biyombo and power forward Marvin Williams mean the Hornets are short-handed in their big-man rotation heading into a three-game road trip to San Antonio, Denver and Washington.

So coach Steve Clifford said both Monday and Tuesday that Vonleh could see some playing time with Biyombo and Williams out.

"I think he’s getting there. Today was one of his best days," Clifford said after practice Tuesday. "It’s a big jump but I think he’s a great worker and a very serious player. He’s getting closer."

The Hornets drafted Vonleh ninth overall in June. The team made it clear back then that selecting Vonleh was more about long-term value than any expectation he’d have a significant role as a rookie.

http://www.newsobserver.com/2015/01/27/ ... .html?rh=1

[HornetJail]

Hope Noah has a Biz-like breakout, except pro-rated for the amount of time he's been held captive. Maybe he debuts as a rich man's Lamarcus Aldridge and carries us over the Spurs with his 30/30/10 off the bench and... damn it this isn't 2k

[TheKingofSting]

I will settle for 8 and 5.

[James Gatz]

So last night was the first time Vonleh has received minutes that actually "mattered." By that I mean being apart of the rotation in non-garbage minutes. So I decided to go back and watch every minute he played and scout just him. Here are my notes along with an overall assessment:

-Neal gets double teamed. Vonleh doesn’t help.
-Kept his body low on defense.
-Competes and almost gets off board
-Rotates over on Manu drive. Doesn’t jump. Uses his long arms to contest.
-Sets a bad pick followed by a better one.
-Almost gets def rebound but Jefferson takes away.
-Boris scores over him. Realizes to late to provide rim protection.
-Touches the ball. Quickly passes back to Lance. Lance loses control. Vonleh reacts quickly and puts it in. Uses long arms to score over Bonner.
-Keeps his eyes on Kawhi while guarding Bonner with his body.
-Contests Mills drive but leads to open 3 by Bonner (who misses it)
-Tries to set side pick and roll with Hairston.
-Stops fastbreak. Uses arms to knock pass out of bounds.
-Tips a pass meant for Bonner.
-Gets pass underneath and gets fouled.
-Makes both FTs. Good form.
-Looks tired after 7 min
-Loses Bonner on 3 pt line but recovers nicely.
-Give and go with Hendo leads to Hendo made jumper
-Parker penetration draws Vonleh in. Leads to another open 3 for Bonner (who misses again)

7 or 8 good plays and 5 or 6 bad plays. Depending on how you judge them.

Offensively: He's not touching the ball much. It seems that Clifford is making him play simple basketball when he's out there in non-garbage minutes. We didn't see any of his fancy ball handling or any turnovers. His PnR game leaves something to be desired. It looked good in moments like his assist to Hendo but less than great when he tried to start a side PnR with Hairston.

He still needs to learn for who and where to set picks. It seems like he's setting them whenever he sees the opportunity. Noah looks his best when he's simply reacting. A good example of this is when Lance almost turns it over and he grabs the ball and lays it in. Vonleh's long arms allow him to get the shot off over Bonner. His FT form also looked good. He was a 71.6% FT shooter in college.

Defensively: Vonleh still has a lot of work to do. I counted 2 or 3 times he left a stretch 4 open for a 3 point shot. In this game he got lucky and either the player missed (Bonner did this twice) or never received the ball. He doesn't seem comfortable guarding that far from the basket. That being said he did make a nice recovery at one point when he lost Bonner and stopped him from taking an open shot. He also used his arms twice to tip a pass out of bounds.

Overall: Raw is an overused and accurate term here. He definitely posses some NBA tools and has an NBA body. While it's more exciting to see him free-styling on offense it is better for the team that he doesn't. I'm excited about his potential shooting ability even though we only saw him take 2 FTs. He record 0 rebounds. That needs to change. Part of it was due to the Spurs making shots and him guarding Bonner on the perimeter but I still want to see more effort on the glass.


This was my first write up of this sort. Let me know if y'all are interested in me doing more.

[fatlever]

Good stuff James. Always nice to hear from good writers who are objective and coming to the forum w/out a predetermined bias.

[Liver_Pooty]

So last night was the first time Vonleh has received minutes that actually "mattered." By that I mean being apart of the rotation in non-garbage minutes. So I decided to go back and watch every minute he played and scout just him. Here are my notes along with an overall assessment:

-Neal gets double teamed. Vonleh doesn’t help.
-Kept his body low on defense.
-Competes and almost gets off board
-Rotates over on Manu drive. Doesn’t jump. Uses his long arms to contest.
-Sets a bad pick followed by a better one.
-Almost gets def rebound but Jefferson takes away.
-Boris scores over him. Realizes to late to provide rim protection.
-Touches the ball. Quickly passes back to Lance. Lance loses control. Vonleh reacts quickly and puts it in. Uses long arms to score over Bonner.
-Keeps his eyes on Kawhi while guarding Bonner with his body.
-Contests Mills drive but leads to open 3 by Bonner (who misses it)
-Tries to set side pick and roll with Hairston.
-Stops fastbreak. Uses arms to knock pass out of bounds.
-Tips a pass meant for Bonner.
-Gets pass underneath and gets fouled.
-Makes both FTs. Good form.
-Looks tired after 7 min
-Loses Bonner on 3 pt line but recovers nicely.
-Give and go with Hendo leads to Hendo made jumper
-Parker penetration draws Vonleh in. Leads to another open 3 for Bonner (who misses again)

7 or 8 good plays and 5 or 6 bad plays. Depending on how you judge them.

Offensively: He's not touching the ball much. It seems that Clifford is making him play simple basketball when he's out there in non-garbage minutes. We didn't see any of his fancy ball handling or any turnovers. His PnR game leaves something to be desired. It looked good in moments like his assist to Hendo but less than great when he tried to start a side PnR with Hairston.

He still needs to learn for who and where to set picks. It seems like he's setting them whenever he sees the opportunity. Noah looks his best when he's simply reacting. A good example of this is when Lance almost turns it over and he grabs the ball and lays it in. Vonleh's long arms allow him to get the shot off over Bonner. His FT form also looked good. He was a 71.6% FT shooter in college.

Defensively: Vonleh still has a lot of work to do. I counted 2 or 3 times he left a stretch 4 open for a 3 point shot. In this game he got lucky and either the player missed (Bonner did this twice) or never received the ball. He doesn't seem comfortable guarding that far from the basket. That being said he did make a nice recovery at one point when he lost Bonner and stopped him from taking an open shot. He also used his arms twice to tip a pass out of bounds.

Overall: Raw is an overused and accurate term here. He definitely posses some NBA tools and has an NBA body. While it's more exciting to see him free-styling on offense it is better for the team that he doesn't. I'm excited about his potential shooting ability even though we only saw him take 2 FTs. He record 0 rebounds. That needs to change. Part of it was due to the Spurs making shots and him guarding Bonner on the perimeter but I still want to see more effort on the glass.


This was my first write up of this sort. Let me know if y'all are interested in me doing more.

Great job. Maybe you and Lamar could collaborate together one day.

[Hornet Mania]

Great analysis, James! Love the breakdown, it brought to my attention a couple of things that were missed in the moment last night.

I was really pleased with what we saw of Vonleh last night in limited time overall. Part of that is modest expectations, he certainly didn't set the world on fire, but he at least didn't look like a totally overwhelmed teenager that should have just stayed in school. The defense in particular gave me the most optimism. I like how he contested without leaving his feet, something a ton of rookies routinely fail to do, and when he ran out on Bonner his ridiculously long arms made for a half-decent contest even though the shot was technically wide-open. I have no doubt that those shots were altered ever so slightly by the fact Bonner knew those arms were on the way with a quickness. His rebounding wasn't there last night but the last time he saw extensive minutes he gobbled up a ton of them so I'm not overly concerned. The Bonner matchup, plus Al looking like a man who realizes his job is not guaranteed any longer so maybe he should give a crap on the boards, didn't give him much opportunity. On offense he has no role and it looks like that's basically by design (or lack of design).

Definitely worth playing him a handful of minutes a game because he's not a disaster and does seem to be a net positive, or at minimum a neutral force with good energy/length. Hopefully Clifford starts spoon feeding him more minutes after the All-Star break so he can prepare for a larger role next season.

[TheKingofSting]

I saw one play where he didn't rotate over and they got an easy layup but you have to expect some mistakes.

[JDR720]

http://www.nba.com/hornets/video/teams/ ... ov-3505137

[JMAC3]

Vonleh could be the biggest piece on our team whether we turn out to be a contender with our young core. We pretty much can project out what Biz is/will be after a solid improvement this season, Kemba has shown that he can be a top 15 pg in the league aka Mike Conley, and Zeller seems like he is going to be a guy you can count on on for 10-15 pts and 8 rebounds if given starters minutes.

The two wildcards are MKG and Vonleh, they both could turn into allstar level players.

One thing I like about all this core is they all can play defense.

I think we have a nice combo of Zeller, Vonleh, and Biz where any two can play together. Ultimately I could see Zeller and Vonleh starting together in the front court, or at the very least playing major minutes by each other. Just playing the matchup defensively because both are big enough to play Center and skilled enough to play the 4 on offense.

PJ is another X factor, I think he could turn into an OJ Mayo type player who can give you 20 a night when he is hot and nights that he isnt then just limit his minutes. I would love to draft another wing player with our first rounder this season to give us a full young core that we can build around.

Buddy Hield
Caris Levert

[TheKingofSting]

I'm not knocking Clifford here but just a simple question why not leave Vonleh in the D-League if you don't have any plans to play him right now?

[Liver_Pooty]

I'm not knocking Clifford here but just a simple question why not leave Vonleh in the D-League if you don't have any plans to play him right now?

D-League is basically street ball and guard dominated. Really, really hard for post players to develop anything there since its basically nothing but chucking. I much rather him stay with the team and practice, go through shoot arounds, etc.

[TheKingofSting]

I wonder whose idea it was the first time? If he requested to go?

[Liver_Pooty]

I wonder whose idea it was the first time? If he requested to go?

Probably just needed to stretch those legs, get any kind of game time he could get. Im really, really torn on Vonleh. Apart of me thinks he has a really bright future, but he had such a terrible summer league, and he wasn't all that great at Indiana either. Perfect NBA body, and has some really nice skill sets that can translate to the NBA, but he is just another massive project. I hope he has a tremendous summer and can show next season that he can contribute.

[TheKingofSting]

I think a healthy summer can do him wonders.

[Liver_Pooty]

I think a healthy summer can do him wonders.

I think hes going to need 2 really solid off seasons for us to see what he is really capable of. I have a rule with rookies. I give them until their fourth season before I start really obliterating them on here. I've been hard on Vonleh at times, but its mainly due to me being tired of projects. That being said McDermott was who I wanted and he was supposedly NBA ready and hes been pathetic, so im willing to be patient with Vonleh.

[catch20two]

I have a rule with rookies. I give them until their fourth season before I start really obliterating them on here.

Ahem, cough, cough. This new rule must have started today.

[Liver_Pooty]

I have a rule with rookies. I give them until their fourth season before I start really obliterating them on here.

Ahem, cough, cough. This new rule must have started today.

Lol eh, I've backtracked on it a little, but Ichiro could back me up on this statement. I've repeated it over and over with MKG.

[stinger14]

I think it would be really smart to give him a couple years to see what happens. We as fans want immediate results, but this team has a good young nucleus that will continue to get better. Vonleh like any other player drafted has a chance to be a bust. However, he also has the skillset and potential to be an all star caliber player one day. If you look at him now compared to draft night, he has already started to bulk up just like Cody did in his first season. I have read and seen video where Patrick Ewing is working with Vonleh on his post game. You take an athlete like Noah, make him stronger, and he learns from a guy like Ewing then it gives a lot of hope for his future. Noah has the ability to shoot the ball from deep, has handles like a guard, has grabbed some nice rebounds and was a very good rebounder (10 rpg) in the summer league, has shown flashes of good defensive ability in his very limited minutes, and has even shown that he can protect the rim with a couple blocked shots. Sure he's made some bad plays, missed some assignments, and looked bad a few times, but he is only 19 and has a lot of potential. I am excited about our young core, all these guys are 24 years old or younger

Kemba
PJ
MKG
Vonleh / Zeller
Biyombo