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Somewhere in Florida, Steve Clifford can be heard evilly cackling

JDR720 wrote:

CuseMayne wrote:I'll be pretty sad if we come out of this with an L...

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Thanks for looking out buddy. Thankfully I've gotten over it at this point, but my goodness was that irritating to watch.

TT manhandled us, Jordan Clarkson and Rodney Hood looked like All-Stars, and we couldn't hit a 3 to save our lives. Gonna hope JB yells at the team for the next few days and gets them playing with a chip on their shoulder again.

HOW DID THIS GO SO WRONG.

i do like Borrego as a coach, but in a game where TT is bullying the crap out of our soft centres, why not put in the one big who would challenge him with all his energy?

Diop wrote:i do like Borrego as a coach, but in a game where TT is bullying the crap out of our soft centres, why not put in the one big who would challenge him with all his energy?

if biyombo is the only choice, the roster needs an update

Can't decide whether this was worse than the CHI loss. Probably equally bad losses.

Cliff could have this team at .500 right now. I really like JB and the changes he's made, and I can understand why people are excited, but games like last night completely destroy any hope I have that this team will be different.

At the end of the day, this team will go as Kemba goes. When Kemba is a train wreck, we'll lose to even the worst teams in the league.

DY_nasty wrote:

Diop wrote:i do like Borrego as a coach, but in a game where TT is bullying the crap out of our soft centres, why not put in the one big who would challenge him with all his energy?

if biyombo is the only choice, the roster needs an update

The roster has needed an update for the last 15 years

Not worried about this one. It was classic lookahead trap game with Philly on deck. That said, I expect 30+ points out of Kemba on Saturday.

yosemiteben wrote:Can't decide whether this was worse than the CHI loss. Probably equally bad losses.

Cliff could have this team at .500 right now. I really like JB and the changes he's made, and I can understand why people are excited, but games like last night completely destroy any hope I have that this team will be different.

At the end of the day, this team will go as Kemba goes. When Kemba is a train wreck, we'll lose to even the worst teams in the league.

Even though it’s a very disappointing loss... I have to disagree with what you’re saying.

First I’m not sure Clifford would have had this team at .500 but even if he had, we would have never been so close in our loses. Remember the adjustment JB made during those games to come back ? From going small to put 5 reserves after 2 minutes. Clifford wouldn’t have made those moves.

Furthermore, on Kemba, of course the team rely on him a lot ! That’s what being the team MVP/Franchise Player is about. However we had couple of wins where he wasn’t especially sparkling and other players showed up.

I think that this loss, highlights what MKG brings to the team, rather than the fact that we rely only on Kemba. Tonight, nobody showed up except for Lamb and we went 4-35 from three. Even if you go 9-35 which is a bad shooting night, it’s another game.

To be honest, I have the impression that this team needs to adjust to their new status. Now that everybody expect us to win those “easy” games, our guy need to handle this pressure they were not used to handle before. Tony Parker will help us for that. I think we’re goig to be ok.

316Hornets wrote:Not worried about this one. It was classic lookahead trap game with Philly on deck. That said, I expect 30+ points out of Kemba on Saturday.

When you are 1-11, you’re the most ridiculous team of the nba, you play with your guts to win any game. Those one are traps indeed. Even if they’re not better than us, they just play with more envy and sometimes it pays out. That how bobcats used to win games ...

Radu_Hornets wrote:First I’m not sure Clifford would have had this team at .500 but even if he had, we would have never been so close in our loses. Remember the adjustment JB made during those games to come back ? From going small to put 5 reserves after 2 minutes. Clifford wouldn’t have made those moves.

Cliff constantly lost close games. This team is eerily similar to Cliff's teams in that we typically had a high net rating yet constantly failed to close out games down the stretch, and I don't recall Cliff ever having the luxury of having a totally healthy team for this long to start the season. For all of JB's creativity, here we are in basically the same spot we've always been - floating around .500 having played a very easy schedule (ESPN has us at the 5th easiest schedule to date) and having lost a few games we had no business losing.

JB is a new head coach and he is giving more responsibility to younger players, so I understand that there is some natural organic growth that needs to take place, but games like last night where we are humiliated by objectively bad teams are inexcusable IMO.

I'm with Radu on this one. The team is what it is, a contender for a low playoff seed in the East, and any team that fits that description is going to have real vulnerabilities. Missing MKG hurt, he is very physical even when playing undersized and a huge contrast to the other softies we have down low.

I'm not sure how we should expect better, just look at our roster, we are not loaded with talent. To be honest this has been well within the range of 'good' scenarios for this 2018 team in my mind. Mitch has a huge job to do turning absolutely atrocious contracts nobody will want to touch (Batum, Marv, Biz) into useful players, and to be honest it's probably impossible. We have so much salary invested in aging or limited players that it's just not possible to be much better than this unless one of the young guys explodes onto the scene as a borderline all-star.

We have one starter who can be argued is clearly above-average at his position. We have a good bench, but it's made up of young guys and an aging Hall of Famer, so the consistency is not always there. The silver lining is some of those young guys might become much better as the months go by, but it's a slender thread of hope.

We're in a race with Miami/Detroit/Washington/Brooklyn (all deeply flawed teams as well) for between 38-45 wins, I don't think that has changed much since the beginning of the year.

And there is no freaking way Steve Clifford would have done better. We'd just be flawed in different ways.

Hornet Mania wrote:And there is no freaking way Steve Clifford would have done better. We'd just be flawed in different ways.

I don't think he would have been better and I agree with this, but I legitimately thought we would outperform Cliff's teams with the changes that JB has implemented and I feel like I'm seeing the same results - can't stay over .500 against an easy schedule because we're wildly inconsistent and can't close out winnable games.

We mostly pay the fact that last year the team did not want to invest into another 3D. When you consider the 'price' of some of them (Mbah a Moute, Ennis..), it should have been done.
It's still possible to fix a part of this just by trying to get Sefolosha (for instance) for a 2nd + Frank (for instance). He is making 5M on a n expiring and is said to be on the trade block.

It's been 3 years that people are arguing about how much this team underachieve, for my part i see the very same problem. And this time it's not because of Batum closing as games like yesterday he was on the court since he was not the worst wing of the team basically, and as said by HM, the consequence of MKG's injury.

The main help that Kemba needs is having another guy who is making things difficult enough for opponent's guards that you don't need hornet's guards to average 25ppg on 90% tsp to have a chance to win games. The joke gets old for me after 3 years, since Jlin is gone to sum up my thoughts and i easily admit i did not think he had so much impact on that end. Marvin for Jlin would also be something i 'd consider if Atlanta was interested (no chance though).

yosemiteben wrote:

Hornet Mania wrote:And there is no freaking way Steve Clifford would have done better. We'd just be flawed in different ways.

I don't think he would have been better and I agree with this, but I legitimately thought we would outperform Cliff's teams with the changes that JB has implemented and I feel like I'm seeing the same results - can't stay over .500 against an easy schedule because we're wildly inconsistent and can't close out winnable games.

This team just isn't that talented outside of Kemba/Batum, this is going to be another a 7-11 seed type year depending on if Miles\Monk develop and Marv gets out of his slump. I'm pretty happy that we are 100% more fun to watch at least. The only way this team was ever going to take the next step is if MKG\Zeller developed jumpers or Kups got a ridiculous trade.

Ok, this loss is alarming.

predators wrote:

yosemiteben wrote:

Hornet Mania wrote:And there is no freaking way Steve Clifford would have done better. We'd just be flawed in different ways.

I don't think he would have been better and I agree with this, but I legitimately thought we would outperform Cliff's teams with the changes that JB has implemented and I feel like I'm seeing the same results - can't stay over .500 against an easy schedule because we're wildly inconsistent and can't close out winnable games.

This team just isn't that talented outside of Kemba/Batum, this is going to be another a 7-11 seed type year depending on if Miles\Monk develop and Marv gets out of his slump. I'm pretty happy that we are 100% more fun to watch at least. The only way this team was ever going to take the next step is if MKG\Zeller developed jumpers or Kups got a ridiculous trade.

Not meaning to come at you, but this line of thought bugs me. If it's a talent issue, then how are we going to fault Cliff for essentially the same results?

Honestly if you look at Tristan Thompson's career numbers against us, I wouldn't be surprised if they are like Moses Malone levels. He always seems to out-rebound us mightily.

Eoghan wrote:Honestly if you look at Tristan Thompson's career numbers against us, I wouldn't be surprised if they are like Moses Malone levels. He always seems to out-rebound us mightily.

9.6/9.2

his game log vs CHA: http://bkref.com/tiny/zoIWv

not that impressive tbh. this is the first time he's gotten 15+ against us

yosemiteben wrote:

predators wrote:

yosemiteben wrote:I don't think he would have been better and I agree with this, but I legitimately thought we would outperform Cliff's teams with the changes that JB has implemented and I feel like I'm seeing the same results - can't stay over .500 against an easy schedule because we're wildly inconsistent and can't close out winnable games.

This team just isn't that talented outside of Kemba/Batum, this is going to be another a 7-11 seed type year depending on if Miles\Monk develop and Marv gets out of his slump. I'm pretty happy that we are 100% more fun to watch at least. The only way this team was ever going to take the next step is if MKG\Zeller developed jumpers or Kups got a ridiculous trade.

Not meaning to come at you, but this line of thought bugs me. If it's a talent issue, then how are we going to fault Cliff for essentially the same results?

I always thought it was a talent issue and not coaching. The only plus I saw in firing Clifford is the possibility that we might stop being a both mediocre & boring and become fun to watch/mediocre team. We are going to have to hit some killer mid round draft picks / leverage the d-league/bargain bin free agency exceptionally well to become a "good" team.