#BringBacktheBiz - The Bismack Biyombo Thread

Eoghan · Post #801 » by **Eoghan** » Sun Mar 23, 2014 2:05 am

I second Sik's argument from the other thread. His +/- with our fairly sucky 2nd unit is only like -1. That stretch early in the season when he was filling in for injured Al, his +/- was usually in the top 3 on the team if I remember correctly. He's been good enough defensively and on the boards that it more than makes up for his lack of offense.

Elden Payton · Post #802 » by **Elden Payton** » Sun Mar 23, 2014 8:48 am

fatlever wrote:@sik

big difference between these statements

biz is the best backup center in the league
biz is the best value at backup center in the league
biz has the most potential of any backup center in the league

i was only responding to the first statement. our views are much closer together in regards to the other two statements.

I said that Biz is arguably the best backup 5 in the league and then in the next post I said I may have exaggerated a bit (which I may have)

That said, he really is arguably the best backup C in the league, he's definitely in the top half dozen imo which gives him a case.

Xerxes_Tetra · Post #803 » by **Xerxes_Tetra** » Sun Mar 23, 2014 10:41 am

I know we all want to be hopeful but let's face it, Biyombo is not going to develop into a defensive all-star or even a starter in this league. He's already a decent defensive role player for spot minutes. But I think that is all he is ever going to be. I know all the arguments - he was and is young, is new to the game, etc. etc. But we're in year 3 folks.

LamarMatic7 · Post #804 » by **LamarMatic7** » Sun Mar 23, 2014 11:15 am

Xerxes_Tetra wrote:I know we all want to be hopeful but let's face it, Biyombo is not going to develop into a defensive all-star or even a starter in this league. He's already a decent defensive role player for spot minutes. But I think that is all he is ever going to be. I know all the arguments - he was and is young, is new to the game, etc. etc. But we're in year 3 folks.

I don't know what exactly you mean by "defensive all-star" (is it a player who makes the all-star game because of his defensive impact?) but there's one thing even the biggest pessimists can't rule out - that Biz becomes one of the best defensive players in the league.

SWedd523 · Post #805 » by **SWedd523** » Sun Mar 23, 2014 12:38 pm

Xerxes_Tetra wrote:But we're in year 3 folks.

Oh ****!

Time to pack up the bags folks, let's get out of here

Xerxes_Tetra · Post #806 » by **Xerxes_Tetra** » Sun Mar 23, 2014 1:33 pm

LamarMatic7 wrote:
Xerxes_Tetra wrote:I know we all want to be hopeful but let's face it, Biyombo is not going to develop into a defensive all-star or even a starter in this league. He's already a decent defensive role player for spot minutes. But I think that is all he is ever going to be. I know all the arguments - he was and is young, is new to the game, etc. etc. But we're in year 3 folks.

I don't know what exactly you mean by "defensive all-star" (is it a player who makes the all-star game because of his defensive impact?) but there's one thing even the biggest pessimists can't rule out - that Biz becomes one of the best defensive players in the league.

I mean precisely that - a player whose defensive prowess gets him on the All-Star team. We've seen them before - Ben Wallace, Tyson Chandler, Mark Eaton, etc. But I have my doubts now that he will even develop into a starter. He couldn't even produce decent numbers in summer league play.

KembaWalker · Post #807 » by **KembaWalker** » Sun Mar 23, 2014 1:34 pm

Xerxes_Tetra wrote:
LamarMatic7 wrote:
Xerxes_Tetra wrote:I know we all want to be hopeful but let's face it, Biyombo is not going to develop into a defensive all-star or even a starter in this league. He's already a decent defensive role player for spot minutes. But I think that is all he is ever going to be. I know all the arguments - he was and is young, is new to the game, etc. etc. But we're in year 3 folks.

I don't know what exactly you mean by "defensive all-star" (is it a player who makes the all-star game because of his defensive impact?) but there's one thing even the biggest pessimists can't rule out - that Biz becomes one of the best defensive players in the league.

I mean precisely that - a player whose defensive prowess gets him on the All-Star team. We've seen them before - Ben Wallace, Tyson Chandler, Mark Eaton, etc. But I have my doubts now that he will even develop into a starter. He couldn't even produce decent numbers in summer league play.

He's producing decent numbers right now

Xerxes_Tetra · Post #808 » by **Xerxes_Tetra** » Sun Mar 23, 2014 1:35 pm

SWedd523 wrote:
Xerxes_Tetra wrote:But we're in year 3 folks.

Oh ****!

Time to pack up the bags folks, let's get out of here

Yeah, its completely unreasonable to have growing doubt about the potential of Biyombo to develop into a starter or an all-star because he's show so little progress in three years. So I take it you are just as bullish about his ability to develop into a starter or an all-star now as you were when the Bobcats drafted him? Do tell.

KembaWalker · Post #809 » by **KembaWalker** » Sun Mar 23, 2014 1:41 pm

Xerxes_Tetra wrote:
SWedd523 wrote:
Xerxes_Tetra wrote:But we're in year 3 folks.

Oh ****!

Time to pack up the bags folks, let's get out of here

Yeah, its completely unreasonable to have growing doubt about the potential of Biyombo to develop into a starter or an all-star because he's show so little progress in three years. So I take it you are just as bullish about his ability to develop into a starter or an all-star now as you were when the Bobcats drafted him? Do tell.

Bismack has taken huges steps in his efficiency and rebounding this year and he looks much better than previous years just off the eye test. I don't have a clue what you're watching.

SWedd523 · Post #810 » by **SWedd523** » Sun Mar 23, 2014 1:51 pm

Xerxes_Tetra wrote:
SWedd523 wrote:
Xerxes_Tetra wrote:But we're in year 3 folks.

Oh ****!

Time to pack up the bags folks, let's get out of here

Yeah, its completely unreasonable to have growing doubt about the potential of Biyombo to develop into a starter or an all-star because he's show so little progress in three years. So I take it you are just as bullish about his ability to develop into a starter or an all-star now as you were when the Bobcats drafted him? Do tell.

Well if we know anything, it's that raw big men with immense defensive potential should show it by year three, or else be jettisoned as a wasted investment. I mean just look at guys like:

Tyson Chandler (a 7/6/1 guy on 50% shooting his first three years in 22 minutes)
Ben Wallace (a 3/3/1 guy on 53% shooting his first three years in 17 minutes)
DeAndre Jordan (6/6/1 guy on 65% shooting his first three years in 20 minutes)

to name a few of his defensive-minded contemporaries. None of those guys figured it out after three years in a bad situation for a developing big man. Good thing their teams cut bait and moved on!

If we've learned anything in history, it's to give up on guys like that.

BlackOutBuzz · Post #811 » by **BlackOutBuzz** » Sun Mar 23, 2014 1:53 pm

I don't think anyone "expects" Biz to be an star. Hope? Sure, but even if he does reach an all star level it'll be very difficult for him to make it with the new all star format.

Now a starter? Yeah, I think he's shown he has the potential to be a starter and defensive anchor. He's not there yet, but that's why Al's here.

But box score watchers will point to the down numbers while ignoring the smaller minutes that come from going from a starting role to the bench.

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Xerxes_Tetra · Post #812 » by **Xerxes_Tetra** » Sun Mar 23, 2014 2:00 pm

SWedd523 wrote:
Well if we know anything, it's that raw big men with immense defensive potential should show it by year three, or else be jettisoned as a wasted investment. I mean just look at guys like:

Tyson Chandler (a 7/6/1 guy on 50% shooting his first three years in 22 minutes)
Ben Wallace (a 3/3/1 guy on 53% shooting his first three years in 17 minutes)
DeAndre Jordan (6/6/1 guy on 65% shooting his first three years in 20 minutes)

to name a few of his defensive-minded contemporaries. None of those guys figured it out after three years in a bad situation for a developing big man. Good thing their teams cut bait and moved on!

If we've learned anything in history, it's to give up on guys like that.

Where did I say cut him? I didn't. Where did I say jettison him? I didn't.

What I said was there is growing doubt about his potential to develop into anything more than he is now - a defensive role-player.

SWedd523 · Post #813 » by **SWedd523** » Sun Mar 23, 2014 2:06 pm

Bismack's stats across the board have shown improvement this year. His PER is up to 13.2 (from the mid 10s his first two seasons), his FG% has jumped to 61.5%, his FT% has steadily improved all three years (now at 53.8%), his defensive and offensive rebounding percentages have been improving all three years (to 10.2% and 27.9%), and is posting otherwise improving/promising advanced numbers.

Not to mention the visible improvement in comfort level on the floor.

If this year has done anything, it's given renewed hope for his potential. Especially in working with Al and Ewing

BlackOutBuzz · Post #814 » by **BlackOutBuzz** » Sun Mar 23, 2014 3:32 pm

Oh Lord he took it to the GB...

The ignorance there is astounding. Some guy trashed Biz and said he was 25 :lol:

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HornetJail · Post #815 » by **HornetJail** » Sun Mar 23, 2014 3:57 pm

BlackOutBobcat wrote:Oh Lord he took it to the GB...

The ignorance there is astounding. Some guy trashed Biz and said he was 25

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The poll in that thread is actually not all bad. There are a handful of people that think he'd go in the lottery.

Of course the ignorance in that thread is hilarious. If Biz was in New York or Miami, he'd be touted as the next Dwight Howard. :roll:

Post #816 » by **fatlever** » Sun Mar 23, 2014 4:06 pm

when has taking an internal argument about our players to the GB solved anything?

not sure why everyone got so defensive all of a sudden either. sik thinks biz is "arguably" the best backup center in the league right now. i disagree.

nothing in that argument talks about where he could/should be as a player in another two years. i think all of us are happy to keep biz on the team and let him keep developing. he will only get better.

now for the BUT - BUT, his ceiling is certainly capped due to his horrible hands. i just dont know how much he will be able to improve his hands. he has the worst hands of any NBA player i have seen in a long time. all the defense, rebounding, shot blocking, crossfit and hashtags arent going to change that part of his game.

vorbis · Post #817 » by **vorbis** » Sun Mar 23, 2014 4:12 pm

i'm prepared to stand on the "biyombo's hands have noticeably improved this season" side of things. you guys really haven't seen an improvement on that front?

Post #818 » by **fatlever** » Sun Mar 23, 2014 4:15 pm

vorbis wrote:i'm prepared to stand on the "biyombo's hands have noticeably improved this season" side of things. you guys really haven't seen an improvement on that front?

of course they have improved since his rookie year. there is no doubt about that. he is catching things that would have hit him in the face two years ago.

but even after that improvement, he still has the worst hands in the league.

vorbis · Post #819 » by **vorbis** » Sun Mar 23, 2014 4:29 pm

fatlever wrote:of course they have improved since his rookie year. there is no doubt about that. he is catching things that would have hit him in the face two years ago.

but even after that improvement, he still has the worst hands in the league.

i feel like the improvement happened this past offseason. he's way better than last year. still misses a few, but people don't try to draw broad conclusions from everybody's turnovers, mostly just biyombo.

Post #820 » by **fatlever** » Sun Mar 23, 2014 4:33 pm

and yet, here i am on the GB defending biz. damn you for creating that thread.