30 Point Threshold - Noah Vonleh Thread

[Flip Murray]

clifford logic - half a season of actual nba experience < training camp

[tondi123]

Its been proven by the greatest basketball minds that having a guy sit on the bench all season dramatically hastens their learning process for the following year. All those rookies playing a bunch of minutes every year are on the path to self destruction. Our bench warmers are going to be loud and proud next year after their year of bench sitting development.

[TheKingofSting]

Noah will show them next year!

[Diop]

I would say that despite making some mistakes and being a little hyper he could provide more at certain times than Maxiell. When Max is clearly to short or slow we need to start letting Noah play in those spots. He could have helped against OKC and McGary.

Now this point is about to become irrelevant as Biz will be back and Max won't have to play.

i like the idea of throwing out a young, hyper big out there for spurts, yeah he will make mistakes but his enthusiasm will also create plays.

[W_HAMILTON]

[instagram]https://instagram.com/p/zk-5qpJGFi/[/instagram]

What did they say that made Henderson and everyone laugh?

[Radu_Hornets]

[instagram]https://instagram.com/p/zk-5qpJGFi/[/instagram]

What did they say that made Henderson and everyone laugh?

"That's how you do a game winner right here dude" ???

Something like this I would say !

[JDR720]

http://www.nba.com/hornets/mgr-zumba-vance-hs-recap

[fatlever]

Clifford on Noah's Zumba Class

"Well, um, you know... Look, Noah's a good kid. He missed a ton of time early in the class when they were going over the basics, the knee raises and arm swings. In Zumba, the really good dancers, and look, Mark and Patrick will tell you the same thing, in Zumba, its all about earning your way to the front of the class. Guys like Marvin, who has put in the time in this class, guys like Marvin can dance at a high level, night in and night out. Noah will get there, but, right now, he needs to put in the time"

[yosemiteben]

I think the script is being rewritten a bit on Vonleh to imply that he was as productive and ready to contribute as Cody coming out of college and that Clifford is just arbitrarily not playing him despite being willing to give Cody PT last year and this year. I don't think you can really argue that Vonleh was nearly as productive as Cody was his sophomore year. For starters, Cody averaged more points on a higher shooting percentage than Vonleh, both on a per game and per 40 minutes basis. Cody also had similar defensive stats on a per 40 basis. Vonleh did have better defensive rebounding stats, though Cody was a slightly better offensive rebounder.

The biggest difference to me is that Cody was the number one option for a top 5 team and had every team that they played game planning for him and giving him their best shot. Vonleh played for a crappy .500 team and was not a primary focus for defenses. He was not really a difference maker in college and certainly wasn't anywhere close to performing at an All American level like Cody.

Cody also showed great BBIQ and mobility in college - go watch his scouting video and his hedging on screens is extremely impressive. He showed a great understanding of defensive rotations and decision making and also was decisive on the offensive end. Pretty much everything I read about Vonleh stated about the opposite.

Here are a few quotes from scouts on Vonleh:

Noah Vonleh measured out well in a number of situational statistics, but his overall low usage shows the growth he still needs to make to fully take advantage of his physical tools, as well as the confidence and assertiveness to really make his mark on a game offensively.

DraftExpress

Vonleh is still very raw on both sides of the ball. He turned the ball over on 18.6 percent of his possessions and recorded 4.1 fouls per 40 minutes, per Sports-Reference. He has a habit of bringing the ball low, right into the hands of reaching defenders.

But he needs a ton of work on both ends of floor. He's wildly inconsistent on defense, he needs to learn how to finish around the rim and he has to cut the turnovers. The potential is there because all of the tools are there; it'll just take years to mold him into that. Luckily, he was built with an impressive slab of clay.

SB Nation

“The thing that brings me pause a little bit is just his lack of experience,” said one Eastern Conference executive. “He’s young. And a lot of people love that. I love that. But if you’re going to draft him top-10 and you want him to help you today, he’s going to take his lumps.”

The scout added, “He’s got to learn position defense and how to play in space and play through contact, but I just think his upside is tremendous.”

Boston Globe

He's got a long way to go. I think his skill level as a shooter is a little bit overstated. He's a good shooter and not a great shooter. He's got big hands, long arms.

He doesn't really have a great understanding of how to play. He has some skill in terms of handling the ball, but he doesn't see the floor very well. But he's a good, talented kid. I'd think he'd go pretty high.

Courier Journal

I also found these quotes about his shooting which I thought were interesting and hadn't read before:

Scout 1 - I’m not sold on his potential as this great shooter. Don’t like his mechanics; his misses in a workout were horrible. I mean just bad misses. He shoots it better moving into a shot. His spacing shots and spot shots were broken. He’s better when rhythm is created for him. [I’m] just not completely sold he’ll be this shooter he’s billed as. Pick-and-pop? I don’t know.

Scout 2 - He needs his shot to get better. I saw him work out and he didn’t shoot it well, but you could see he was adjusting his mechanics. We were like, “What are you doing?”

Grantland

Virtually everything I read about him last summer said he wasn't going to come in and be immediately ready to contribute.

[BeesWax]

He played on a young team where he spent more time on the perimeter on offense which would influence his ORB numbers. He did not have near the same amount if help that Zeller did but he played a closer position to PF in college than Cody did. If Cody can make such a large jump in the offseason then there is no reason Noah, who had skills Cody spent time this summer trying to learn, can't make a similar jump.

I would expect if they were given the same time rookie year, which they haven't been, Noah would have a slight advantage at the end of the season. If he is not ready to contribute next season it is the fault of Clifford for not giving him the minutes he deserves over Maxiell. I am not saying he deserves all of the minutes but there are times when size and athletic wise Max is just overmatched. That is when Noah needs to be inserted into the lineup.

[yosemiteben]

It's not just about raw stats though. Noah looked flat out bad on defense at times even in college. Just watch the weakness section of his scouting video. His PNR defensive rotations are pretty much non-existent.

I think it's possible that Noah could make a major jump in the offseason, but he has three less years of physical and basketball development than Cody, who himself is still young and still developing. Vonleh is still incredibly raw and I don't think it's all that crazy to say he might be 22 or 23 before he's ready for big minutes as a starter.

[BeesWax]

We will just have to disagree. Last season Cody looked like a newborn deer defending anyone outside of the lane. This season I would argue he may be our second best perimeter defender of his position. MKG is good against any wing out there and Cody can mark up any big away from the lane.

The slowing of the game for him will be huge. Cody his first year at Indiana seemed afraid to leave the lane then grew in year two. I think the biggest thing making Noah look iffy is that he hasn't had an offseason to completely learn about a league yet. He did not have an offseason in between two college seasons to make a jump like Cody did. I think Noah though looking raw will make a very large jump this offseason because he will know what he is preparing for. Add to this the fact that he already has offensive skills that rival Cody and it could be a lot closer than people think next season.

Finally working with the coaches he is going to play for in an offseason will be huge. If he dedicates himself like MKG and Zeller did this last season we could be in great shape. I just really hope that Hairston, MKG, Zeller, Lance, Biz, and Noah are all in town this summer working together with Kemba and hopefully Mo if we can bring him back. I want to get Biz done early so he can be here working with out guys. We have so many young guys that our team could make a jump next season without even adding players just due to growth.

[yosemiteben]

All good points and you may be (and I hope you are) right. I don't see a problem with being high on his potential, I am too, I just am also high on Cody's potential and I think in order for Vonleh to supplant Cody as the starter it is going to take astronomical improvement from Vonleh and a lack of development from Cody.

Very good points about the offseasons and consistency in coaching though, and I also agree with the value of getting our young guys on the same page. I do think if we let Al walk that we're going to sign a backup C though, I see Vonleh as potentially playing the Maxiell role of third PF / C that only plays in the event of injury, foul trouble or someone else needing to be taught a lesson.

[BeesWax]

It will be something to see. I do think we bring in a center to help out since I think Noah has a future at PF instead of C. I think he could see more minutes next season due to matchups. I think our bigs are very different and they fit well together. Noah spreads the floor and the others are more post players. Cody and Biz can play together and provide good defense and if we need more scoring we put in Noah and Zeller and get more offense. We can also go with Noah and Biz for extreme rim protection late in games.

This group of three has potential to be a very potent trio. All have strengths that vary just enough to make them flexible for matchups.

[Braggins]

I agree that Noah will probably be 22-23 before he has a chance to overtake Zeller as a starter, but there is no reason he cant be a backup and regular rotation player next season. It has just as much to do with our other options being terrible than anything. We likely wont have any cap to commit on another PF is Marvin is almost pure garbage and isnt even a PF. I will be very disappointed in our coaching staff if Vonleh isnt getting most of the backup PF minutes next year.

[BobsBuddy]

I totally agree that Noah should be getting more backup minutes if it's only 5-10mpg a night. If he puts Maxciell numbers play him more..if not less! Clifford ...use the KISS methodology..

[fatlever]

http://www.atthehive.com/2015/4/7/83555 ... er-forward

[LofJ]

Great article on Vonleh's Philly game tape. He still has a ways to go, but the kid has the ability to do everything you could possibly want out of a 4. Bigs who can protect the rim, recover to contest 3 pointers, and play on the perimeter on offense are an extremely rare thing in this league. I'm looking forward to see what he looks like next season.

The big rotation of Biz, Zeller, and Vonleh with MKG locking down the perimeter has the potential to be historically great defensively. The sooner we place our future in their hands the better off this team will be.

[dmutombo321]

In terms of where he is most effective, I actually like Noah best at SF, although with his wing span, he is perfectly capable of PF also.

He played at the 3 exclusively his entire prep career and was always projected as a SF until he grew 2 inches and bulked up before his freshman year at Indiana.

I noticed in his Observer article last week he also said he prefers playing on the perimeter.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WejucFMXwng[/youtube]

[JDR720]

Might be crazy, but maybe a Kemba-SG that can shoot-Vonleh-MKG-Zeller lineup would work.