Fake Trade Thread 16/17 pt.1

[yosemiteben]

You've gotta believe they're having some degree of buyers remorse, even this early.

I think that is extremely unlikely.

Given the cap implications I'm happy with the move. I still think he's a great fit.

[dmutombo321]

They must be elated to have 12.5 mil a year through 2020 tied up in a player who is currently out of shape and injured.

I happen to like Miles' game and think he brings grittiness and rebounding to the table that Cody lacks, while retaining his pick and roll prowess. But that price tag is ridiculous

[yosemiteben]

He didn't have a serious injury, he should not have a problem showing up after the ASB healthy and in better shape. I'm annoyed with the out of shape stuff too, but that's a silly reason to regret the trade IMO. Have to think bigger picture.

If he's a good fit, the price tag isn't a big deal. We have more flexibility next summer post-trade than we did pre-trade.

[TheKingofSting]

I'm a little surprised people are even talking about trading Miles. That's obviously not going to happen.

No other team is dumb enough to take on his dead weight.

I'm not sure any sucker GM would even take him with a first rounder or two attached.


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[Mystical Apples]

One time I purchased real estate and the interior needed painting. What a disaster!

[Eoghan]

Lamb for Lou Will is floating around twitter...

As long as there is no 1st attached with Lamb, then sure.

This. I dont hate Lamb but Lou definitely fits what the team needs a lot better. IF this is in the works looks like we definitely arent tanking the year (Not that I thought we were)

What about our '17 1st and Ramon for Lou Will? Supposedly LAL wants to free up minutes for their young guards to develop and an injured Ramon on a team friendly deal would definitely do that.

[HornetJail]

As long as there is no 1st attached with Lamb, then sure.

This. I dont hate Lamb but Lou definitely fits what the team needs a lot better. IF this is in the works looks like we definitely arent tanking the year (Not that I thought we were)

What about our '17 1st and Ramon for Lou Will? Supposedly LAL wants to free up minutes for their young guards to develop and an injured Ramon on a team friendly deal would definitely do that.

That's a gross overpay. Especially since we're headed for the lottery. I wouldn't even trade our lotto pick for Clarkson.

[Braggins]

Ramon and two 2nds is the most I'd give for Lou Williams. Lou/Beli/Frank trio seems like it would be a trainwreck on D and the boards. Lamb would fit nicely as the other wing with that group. Lou/Beli/Lamb/Frank/Plumlee might actually be a legit 2nd unit. Two iso scorers, two shooters/playmakers, and a rim runner. Swap out Lamb for Graham and all of a sudden that unit looks pretty meh again.

I doubt anyone is giving up a 1st round pick for Lou Williams and LA is tanking regardless, so two 2nds and expiring salary should do it. That would be a classic Cho trade I could get behind if we insist on not tanking. Basically the same as the Courtney Lee deal.

[Kembastockton]

Like someone said before Mike hates tanking. Remember we could have had Boston's crazy pick load, but Mike wanted Frank. He thought he could help us win now. Lou would be a good pick up if we could get him without giving up a pick. With all of the big salaries we would now hold we need some rookie contracts for talent without the cap hits. After all if we could snag a guard like Lou to shore up the backcourt it would be nice to be able to add another front court player in free agency like maybe Taj, Zbo, or Gay.

[dmutombo321]

One time I purchased real estate and the interior needed painting. What a disaster!

A more apt real estate analogy would be foolishly overpaying for a house no other buyer will touch by double the market value and then finding out after the fact that the interior also needs work.

Plumblee costing 12.5 million a year through 2020 when we could have just waited and signed any number of journeymen bigs in the offseason who could have provided similarly modest output in limited minutes off the bench for considerably less money is what made the trade boneheaded. Finding out afterwords Plumblee is out of shape and his promptly getting injured is just the cherry on top

[yosemiteben]

Plumblee costing 12.5 million a year through 2020 when we could have just waited and signed any number of journeymen bigs in the offseason who could have provided similarly modest output in limited minutes off the bench for considerably less money is what made the trade boneheaded.

You're making some pretty big assumptions about his fit while simultaneously overstating the cost and quality of FA C's next summer. Have you looked at the list of UFA centers next summer? There is literally zero mobile PNR oriented bigs.

[dmutombo321]

Ramon and two 2nds is the most I'd give for Lou Williams. Lou/Beli/Frank trio seems like it would be a trainwreck on D and the boards. Lamb would fit nicely as the other wing with that group. Lou/Beli/Lamb/Frank/Plumlee might actually be a legit 2nd unit. Two iso scorers, two shooters/playmakers, and a rim runner. Swap out Lamb for Graham and all of a sudden that unit looks pretty meh again.

I doubt anyone is giving up a 1st round pick for Lou Williams and LA is tanking regardless, so two 2nds and expiring salary should do it. That would be a classic Cho trade I could get behind if we insist on not tanking. Basically the same as the Courtney Lee deal.

I really like Lou Williams' game. And if we were sitting as a 4 or 5 seed in the east right now and felt Williams could push us over the top to secure home court and assure we advance a round, I'd be all for dealing for him.

But giving up assets for him now is a waste IMO, even if its two seconds. In all likelihood, he just adds meaningless wins that hurt our lottery standing. At best (and I think this is unlikely), Detroit, Milwaukee and Miami all falter and we recapture the 7th of 8th seed. Even then we get dispatched in round one and then have only worse draft position to show for our trouble while also being out two second rounders

[Mystical Apples]

One time I purchased real estate and the interior needed painting. What a disaster!

A more apt real estate analogy would be foolishly overpaying for a house no other buyer will touch by double the market value and then finding out after the fact that the interior also needs work.

And you know this to be true how?

[Mystical Apples]

Hawes and Hibbert aren't even playing for MIL. For all we know the market for Hawes was an attached 2nd. That + $$$ MIL kicked in makes Charlotte's return anywhere between:

Plumlee + cash
Plumlee + cash + whatever opportunity cost for Hawes

Meaning up to Plumlee + (2) 2nds

Not to mention the higher non-taxpayer MLE which can be applied elsewhere. And CHA's salary commitment to the C position next season of just +/- $28M.

[Braggins]

Ramon and two 2nds is the most I'd give for Lou Williams. Lou/Beli/Frank trio seems like it would be a trainwreck on D and the boards. Lamb would fit nicely as the other wing with that group. Lou/Beli/Lamb/Frank/Plumlee might actually be a legit 2nd unit. Two iso scorers, two shooters/playmakers, and a rim runner. Swap out Lamb for Graham and all of a sudden that unit looks pretty meh again.

I doubt anyone is giving up a 1st round pick for Lou Williams and LA is tanking regardless, so two 2nds and expiring salary should do it. That would be a classic Cho trade I could get behind if we insist on not tanking. Basically the same as the Courtney Lee deal.

I really like Lou Williams' game. And if we were sitting as a 4 or 5 seed in the east right now and felt Williams could push us over the top to secure home court and assure we advance a round, I'd be all for dealing for him.

But giving up assets for him now is a waste IMO, even if its two seconds. In all likelihood, he just adds meaningless wins that hurt our lottery standing. At best (and I think this is unlikely), Detroit, Milwaukee and Miami all falter and we recapture the 7th of 8th seed. Even then we get dispatched in round one and then have only worse draft position to show for our trouble while also being out two second rounders

I agree and I personally have no interest in any plan except tanking this season, but if we refuse to do that then i could stomach a Lou Will trade if it was just Ramon and a 2nd or two. Its not what I want, but im pretty convinced we are going to make a short sighted win now move and Im worried its going to be worse than that. Ill be relieved if we make it past the deadline with our 1st and all our younger guys still in our possession.

[Braggins]

Hawes and Hibbert aren't even playing for MIL. For all we know the market for Hawes was an attached 2nd. That + $$$ MIL kicked in makes Charlotte's return anywhere between:

Plumlee + cash
Plumlee + cash + whatever opportunity cost for Hawes

Meaning up to Plumlee + (2) 2nds

Not to mention the higher non-taxpayer MLE which can be applied elsewhere. And CHA's salary commitment to the C position next season of just +/- $28M.

Plumlees value is more negative than Hawes with that contract. Milwaukee probably thought that they were stuck with him unless they gave up a 1st. We bailed them out big time imo.

[dmutombo321]

Plumblee costing 12.5 million a year through 2020 when we could have just waited and signed any number of journeymen bigs in the offseason who could have provided similarly modest output in limited minutes off the bench for considerably less money is what made the trade boneheaded.

You're making some pretty big assumptions about his fit while simultaneously overstating the cost and quality of FA C's next summer. Have you looked at the list of UFA centers next summer? There is literally zero mobile PNR oriented bigs.

We all recognize PNR bigs are ideal for our system and essential for Charlotte's offense, as its presently constructed, to operate. Nothing highlights that more than Zeller being injured. So we all understand thats why they were interested in plumlee.

As an aside, I actually think its troubling that Zeller has proven to be (save for Kemba), perhaps the most critical cog in our offensive machine. When your 11pt/6reb center goes out with an injury and your team's entire offensive scheme collapses like a house of cards, it illustrates, as Clifford has incidentally said more than once, that the roster is almost entirely system dependent and doesnt have the talent to allow for much if any margin for error in their execution.

As previously mentioned, I actually like plumlee and think he fits well. If he was making $5mil a year or was an expiring at his current salary, I would have been fine with it. But the fact that his overpriced contract far exceeds what he brings to the table cant be ignored.

In a vacuum, I would take plumlee over say Mike Toby 7 days a week. But since they're part of an NBA roster, the cost element makes that a much harder decision. As Fats and others have accurately observed, there doesnt seem to be a whole lot of a drop off that separates Toby from Plumlee. In 14-20 minutes of court time off the bench, is the difference between 7pts/6reb from say 5pts/5reb really worth nearly 12 mil a year of our cap space?

[dmutombo321]

CHA's salary commitment to the C position next season of just +/- $28M.

"Just" 28 million eaten up almost entirely by two middling pick and roll system players is not a good thing.

None of the reviews of this trade were positive for Charlotte but I happened to agree with the sentiments of the foxsports writer the most:

"Paying a combined $94 million to Cody Zeller and Miles Plumlee over the next four years makes me nauseous."
"There’s just no easy way to defend trading for a rarely used, 28-year-old center who was just signed to a disastrous four-year, $52 million contract last summer."

I fully expect Miles to have some good games and post a few double doubles every now and again once he's healthy. But unless he starts doing so consistently, he's never going to live up to that contract.

[JMAC3]

What about Marvin to Indy for Monta Ellis and their first. Seems Ellis has fallen out of favor and with Miles and stuckey already coming off the bench a combo forward like Marvin could be more versatile for them.

Their first will be around 20ish. Good spot to grab backup pg or pf. Ellis has 2 more years under contract after this one at 11mil each.





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[JMAC3]

Marvin to Utah for Lyles and Diaw




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