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30 Point Threshold - Noah Vonleh Thread

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Thread title?

Poll ended at Mon Jun 29, 2015 6:35 pm

30 Point Threshold
1
7%
Dancing Queen
3
21%
Splinters
0
No votes
Does Anyone Noah if He Can Play?
2
14%
Missed Training Camp
3
21%
Might Be Bosh
2
14%
Who The Hell Is That?
0
No votes
Get On My Ark
1
7%
Can I Play Now?
2
14%
 
Total votes: 14

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Re: Welcome To Charlotte: Noah Vonleh 

Post#841 » by fatlever » Mon Apr 13, 2015 12:08 am

JDR720 wrote:Might be crazy, but maybe a Kemba-SG that can shoot-Vonleh-MKG-Zeller lineup would work.


I think that lineup could definitely close games in a year or two. I think that you still would want a bigger center starting games and playing the first 6 minutes of each half, when teams typically go big. You could easily start Biz (or some other bigger brute defensive center) and play them limited minutes, mainly to soak up fouls at the beginning of each half. For example, you wouldnt want Zeller starting out vs guys like Lopez, Howard, Vucevic, Gortat, M Gasol, Drummond etc... knowing that teams will force feed their bigs early in each half.
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Re: Welcome To Charlotte: Noah Vonleh 

Post#842 » by BeesWax » Mon Apr 13, 2015 12:13 am

fatlever wrote:
JDR720 wrote:Might be crazy, but maybe a Kemba-SG that can shoot-Vonleh-MKG-Zeller lineup would work.


I think that lineup could definitely close games in a year or two. I think that you still would want a bigger center starting games and playing the first 6 minutes of each half, when teams typically go big. You could easily start Biz (or some other bigger brute defensive center) and play them limited minutes, mainly to soak up fouls at the beginning of each half. For example, you wouldnt want Zeller starting out vs guys like Lopez, Howard, Vucevic, Gortat, M Gasol, Drummond etc... knowing that teams will force feed their bigs early in each half.

There are 96 minutes to go between the two big spots. I do not see why our three main bigs can't each gets about 28 a game with the other 12 minutes divided between them based on matchups and going to a fourth big when needed. Since Noah has the length to play both 4 and 5 he could bounce around some and can play with both Zeller and Biz due to his offensive game. We may be two years away from that possibility but today showed something.
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Post#843 » by BlackOutBuzz » Mon Apr 13, 2015 12:16 am

I don't know...Zeller's 7-1, I see no reason why he can't be a full-time center as long as he continues to add girth. I really like the idea of a MKG-Noah-Cody lineup with Biz off the bench.
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Re: Welcome To Charlotte: Noah Vonleh 

Post#844 » by Elden Payton » Mon Apr 13, 2015 12:53 am

Noah is more likely to end up as a C than Zeller imo, Cody has passable length and strength for a PF but not for the 5 imo.
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Re: 

Post#845 » by BeesWax » Mon Apr 13, 2015 1:02 am

BlackOutBuzz wrote:I don't know...Zeller's 7-1, I see no reason why he can't be a full-time center as long as he continues to add girth. I really like the idea of a MKG-Noah-Cody lineup with Biz off the bench.

By length is goes Biz, Noah, and then Cody. You have to use your arms to play defense and his are just short. He also lacks the required bulk to fight down there. There are times Biz gets bullied still and he plays much stronger than Cody.
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Re: Welcome To Charlotte: Noah Vonleh 

Post#846 » by BlackOutBuzz » Mon Apr 13, 2015 1:33 am

Noah just seems like a prototypical 4 to me, but that's obviously not the consensus as posters have said he may be better suited for the 3 and 5 on this page alone. Vonleh has already shown a greater willingness to take 3s than our starting 2-4, but with his size and post ability I don't know if I like him as a full-time wing (not anymore anyway, as was mentioned he was once a top wing prospect behind Wiggins and Parker).

Zeller can hit the occasional mid-range shot, but I fear he may have Hendo's disease and that may be about the extent of his range. He has short arms, but he's tall and athletic enough to make up for that IMO. Plus he's at his best as a scrapper, not out on the perimeter. Like I said, I think he needs to add some more size but I think it's possible he moves to the 5 full-time EVENTUALLY.

But hey, even if I do have the positions backwards, I'll be thrilled if these two become a dominant post duo.
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Re: Welcome To Charlotte: Noah Vonleh 

Post#847 » by Liver_Pooty » Mon Apr 13, 2015 1:40 am

I agree with BOB. I think Zeller is eventually our starting center. Him and Vonleh could be a very formidable duo.
Balllin wrote:Zion Williamson is 6-5, with a 6-10 wingspan. I see him as a slightly better Kenneth Faried.
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Re: Welcome To Charlotte: Noah Vonleh 

Post#848 » by Elden Payton » Mon Apr 13, 2015 2:01 am

BlackOutBuzz wrote:Noah just seems like a prototypical 4 to me, but that's obviously not the consensus as posters have said he may be better suited for the 3 and 5 on this page alone. Vonleh has already shown a greater willingness to take 3s than our starting 2-4, but with his size and post ability I don't know if I like him as a full-time wing (not anymore anyway, as was mentioned he was once a top wing prospect behind Wiggins and Parker).

Zeller can hit the occasional mid-range shot, but I fear he may have Hendo's disease and that may be about the extent of his range. He has short arms, but he's tall and athletic enough to make up for that IMO. Plus he's at his best as a scrapper, not out on the perimeter. Like I said, I think he needs to add some more size but I think it's possible he moves to the 5 full-time EVENTUALLY.

But hey, even if I do have the positions backwards, I'll be thrilled if these two become a dominant post duo.


Excellent analysis and I most definitely can see your point.

Here is some of my own about Vonleh being more likely to be a 5 than Zeller, I said when Vonleh was drafted it wouldn't surprise me if he is in fact a 5 long term.

Vonleh at 6'10, is a 247 pound man child with a wing span of 7'4, this is great size for a C in this current evolution of the league imo.

He has girth in his trunk and lower body that will help him establish position in the post and keep his center of gravity when fighting the trees down low.

Vonleh has also shown a tough streak which we have yet to see with Cody imo, obviously Noah hasn't got to play much but it is clear that he doesn't mind a bit of the rough stuff when given the opportunities.

Cody despite being a true 7 footer only has a wingspan suited for PF, his lack of strength also hinders him to an extent, but this is not as evident against PF's, where his athleticism and size more than make up for his deficiencies in the strength column, hopefully as Cody keeps hitting the gym he'll improve in this area.

I believe by putting Cody at the 5, we'll take away his strengths both offensively and defensively, offensively he is good at taking players off the dribble from the elbow and defensively he is an excellent perimeter defender for a 4 and both of these become rather moot if he is under the basket on both sides of the court.

Vonleh's range is actually an advantage at C where his jumper can create space for MKG and Zeller to operate off cuts and have space at the rim.

He is a rim protector also, which is a must for a 5 in today's league imo.
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Re: Welcome To Charlotte: Noah Vonleh 

Post#849 » by BeesWax » Mon Apr 13, 2015 2:05 am

Liver_Pooty wrote:I agree with BOB. I think Zeller is eventually our starting center. Him and Vonleh could be a very formidable duo.

Starting Zeller at C takes away his best attribute right now which is his defense. He has trouble in the post now with stronger PFs. I think he is best long term off the bench with Vonleh starting at the 4 and sliding to the 5 when Zeller comes in. Also for defensive purposes we could use Zeller and Biz to close out some games. The three of them make an interesting group of varying skill sets.
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Re: Welcome To Charlotte: Noah Vonleh 

Post#850 » by BlackOutBuzz » Mon Apr 13, 2015 2:15 am

I think it's kinda hard for me to see Vonleh as a 5 in part because when I first started researching his class he was still a 3. He was my favorite prospect last year and I was pumped when we got the pick and even more thrilled that he was actually there at 9.

Regardless of what position he ends up at, I think we've got a good one here. I just wish we got to see more of him this year.
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Re: Welcome To Charlotte: Noah Vonleh 

Post#851 » by fatlever » Mon Apr 13, 2015 2:19 am

Zeller and Noah will be both eventually fine to play minutes at center during games, I just don't think either are ideally suited to defend many of the bigger centers. Teams usually go big to start games and many times they like to pound the ball down low a few times early to try and draw a couple of quick fouls. Why risk either Zeller or Noah in that situation where they will be guarding bigger guys on a few post ups early. Better to let a bigger guy start and then move one or the other to center during the game and at end of games when teams are more likely to be playing smaller.

Its this same logic that has teams like New Orleans starting Asik next to Davis, rather than starting Davis at center with Anderson at power forward. Of course Davis can play center, but why risk putting him in a situation where he has to defend a bigger center early in the game where he would potentially pick up a cheap foul or two guarding post ups from bigger centers.

Of course, our stubborn coach doesn't even see it fit to play Zeller at center later in games, even when teams go small. The only times we saw Zeller at center was at the end of games when he had Zeller guarding 5-out situations against a stretch big.
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Re: Welcome To Charlotte: Noah Vonleh 

Post#852 » by Liver_Pooty » Mon Apr 13, 2015 2:24 am

Well Atleast we have some kind of hope in the post because our guards suck
Balllin wrote:Zion Williamson is 6-5, with a 6-10 wingspan. I see him as a slightly better Kenneth Faried.
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Re: Welcome To Charlotte: Noah Vonleh 

Post#853 » by SeanBobcats » Mon Apr 13, 2015 3:41 am

That lineup has potential to be a very good lineup, but the lack of a rim protector could hold it back a little bit defensively. Don't get me wrong, Zeller has shocked us with his very good play defensively, but he's built to defend PF's and help on wing guys instead of protecting the rim. Maybe if Vonleh puts on weight he can defend the opposing team's center? He has the length to be a rim protector, but he plays more like a Bosh type on both ends of the floor it seems.
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Re: Welcome To Charlotte: Noah Vonleh 

Post#854 » by StitchJones » Mon Apr 13, 2015 4:09 am

Vonleh is in no way a SF. It would be a colossal blunder to try to make him one. His best chance at being everything he can be is as a Chris Bosh like clone (Toronto version) at PF. You can not as him to consistently try to guard, Lebron, Carmelo, Paul george, Kwahi Leonard and the like.

I really wish Clifford got his head out of his butt early in the season and gave Vonleh minutes. Now I fear his development is thrown off by half a season.
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Re: Welcome To Charlotte: Noah Vonleh 

Post#855 » by Liver_Pooty » Mon Apr 13, 2015 4:19 am

Vonleh at SF is insane. I'm totally thrilled he had a good game today though. Thank God. I've been down on him, but he gives me something to look forward to in the Summer. He's still a season or two away, but I loved what I saw today.
Balllin wrote:Zion Williamson is 6-5, with a 6-10 wingspan. I see him as a slightly better Kenneth Faried.
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Re: Welcome To Charlotte: Noah Vonleh 

Post#856 » by Diop » Mon Apr 13, 2015 6:59 am

out of all the "stretch 4's" we've had, Vonleh looks the most natural shooting that 3 from dead on in front.
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Re: Welcome To Charlotte: Noah Vonleh 

Post#857 » by James Gatz » Mon Apr 13, 2015 1:10 pm

Was impressed by the variety of ways he scored. Driving, put back dunk, mid range, 3pt. He did have a horrible airball turnaround jumper. I think as fans we all needed to see something out of him for us to have any hope with this franchise.
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Re: Welcome To Charlotte: Noah Vonleh 

Post#858 » by JDR720 » Mon Apr 13, 2015 1:51 pm

Liver_Pooty wrote:Vonleh at SF is insane. I'm totally thrilled he had a good game today though. Thank God. I've been down on him, but he gives me something to look forward to in the Summer. He's still a season or two away, but I loved what I saw today.

my idea for the lineup is Vonleh plays SF on offense but still guards the PF and MKG plays PF on offense where his range isn't as big of a deal and guards the SF.
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Re: Welcome To Charlotte: Noah Vonleh 

Post#859 » by JDR720 » Mon Apr 13, 2015 1:56 pm

well if Zeller cant play C, lets try a super large lineup of Kemba-MKG-Vonleh-Zeller-Biz
i doubt it would work because of spacing, but it might be fine for short stretches especially for defense.
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Re: Welcome To Charlotte: Noah Vonleh 

Post#860 » by Benjamin Linus » Mon Apr 13, 2015 2:19 pm

I like the idea of Vonleh and Zeller playing the 4 and 5 together against non-massive lineups. It gives us some nice floorspacing with good defense and rebounding. I see Vonleh as more of the center since he's longer and will likely end up having a much stronger build. Plus, he's projected to be the better shotblocker while Zeller is better suited to defend more perimeter oriented players. Either way, together they should have enough size and athleticism to help each other out.

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