NBA ChoK16 - the Rich Cho Thread

[Absinthe]

I don't understand this team's front office. Trade away Vonleh for a one year rental. Why didn't they trade the Vonleh draft pick in the first place? I didn't agree with taking on Spencer Hawes just to get rid of Lance even though they got Lamb out of the deal.

They need to trade Zeller. I would have personally packaged Zeller with MKG in a trade and taken Winslow. With Hawes, Giminsky is redundant.

[Braggins]

As of right now our backup PG is Brian Roberts and PJ Hairston or Marvin Williams are our backup SF. We are out of cap and only have the exceptions to add players...

[Bassman]

From now on, I will coin a phrase that everyone will know is a replacement for the "s" word. I will use it on this board because all will immediately connect the dots. Example: "This front office is full of Cho". Or one could use "Bullcho".
So therefore, I am calling Bullcho on this draft.

[MPM]

As of right now our backup PG is Brian Roberts and PJ Hairston or Marvin Williams are our backup SF. We are out of cap and only have the exceptions to add players...

This. I can't seem to get my head around a rotation of Tank, Zeller, and Hawes. Zeller, Hawes, and Tank. Hawes, Tank, and Zeller. And Al! What does it all mean? So much Sikma, So much Lohaus, shlemiel, schlemazel, hasenpfeffer incorporated - We're gonna do it!

I'm assuming we use the MLE on a backup PG (Mo, Lin, Beverley?)

Hawes can't be moved until August, but at this point that would be my hope. Swing him somewhere for a backup wing. No reason to have he and Tank on the bench.

[Braggins]

If we let Biz go and Batum goes ring chasing in free agency the young core we are left with after the next season is Kemba, Lamb, Hairston, MKG, Zeller, and Kaminsky. We started the off-season with Kemba, PJ, MKG, Zeller, Vonleh, Biz,the 9th and 39th pick, and we turned it into that... Cho is done.

[Hornet Mania]

If I were naming the threads this one would be "Don't let the door hit you on the ass: The Rich Cho Thread" after last night's debacle.

[BeesWax]

If we let Biz go and Batum goes ring chasing in free agency the young core we are left with after the next season is Kemba, Lamb, Hairston, MKG, Zeller, and Kaminsky. We started the off-season with Kemba, PJ, MKG, Zeller, Vonleh, Biz,the 9th and 39th pick, and we turned it into that... Cho is done.

I agree. We bent over backwards and cost us the future possibly to cover up the massive holes in our coaching. Everything we have done so far seems to be to cover up for the fact Clifford can't teach offense at all.

[Braggins]

If we let Biz go and Batum goes ring chasing in free agency the young core we are left with after the next season is Kemba, Lamb, Hairston, MKG, Zeller, and Kaminsky. We started the off-season with Kemba, PJ, MKG, Zeller, Vonleh, Biz,the 9th and 39th pick, and we turned it into that... Cho is done.

I agree. We bent over backwards and cost us the future possibly to cover up the massive holes in our coaching. Everything we have done so far seems to be to cover up for the fact Clifford can't teach offense at all.

Definitely. I thought the past two drafts were just circumstance, but it is obvious that our front office is obsessed with fulfilling the BRD's PF prophecy.

[BeesWax]

If we let Biz go and Batum goes ring chasing in free agency the young core we are left with after the next season is Kemba, Lamb, Hairston, MKG, Zeller, and Kaminsky. We started the off-season with Kemba, PJ, MKG, Zeller, Vonleh, Biz,the 9th and 39th pick, and we turned it into that... Cho is done.

I agree. We bent over backwards and cost us the future possibly to cover up the massive holes in our coaching. Everything we have done so far seems to be to cover up for the fact Clifford can't teach offense at all.

Definitely. I thought the past two drafts were just circumstance, but it is obvious that our front office is obsessed with fulfilling the BRD's PF prophecy.

I think Vonleh fell to us and they fell in love with Zeller's athletic ability. I think every move this offseason has been about getting players who can score without any set offense. Since having a solid allround roster built to be a team didn't work for the coach we went with a bunch of guys who can score without coaching help. We would have been much better off bringing in a coach who has a clue and getting the best player we could and not overpay to cover up coaching flaws. I wonder if Cho was mandated to keep Cliff so he felt he had to try to cover up for him. He was doing so well until he tried to cover up his flaws this offseason.

[Hornet Mania]

I agree. We bent over backwards and cost us the future possibly to cover up the massive holes in our coaching. Everything we have done so far seems to be to cover up for the fact Clifford can't teach offense at all.

Definitely. I thought the past two drafts were just circumstance, but it is obvious that our front office is obsessed with fulfilling the BRD's PF prophecy.

I think Vonleh fell to us and they fell in love with Zeller's athletic ability. I think every move this offseason has been about getting players who can score without any set offense. Since having a solid allround roster built to be a team didn't work for the coach we went with a bunch of guys who can score without coaching help. We would have been much better off bringing in a coach who has a clue and getting the best player we could and not overpay to cover up coaching flaws. I wonder if Cho was mandated to keep Cliff so he felt he had to try to cover up for him. He was doing so well until he tried to cover up his flaws this offseason.

If bringing in guys who can score without a set offense is truly our goal we are failing miserably. Batum does not create offense for himself, the vast majority of his shots are catch-and-shoot threes. Kaminsky has zero chance of creating offense for himself in the NBA, he's going to need to be fed the ball in his spots. I don't doubt the front office has deluded itself into thinking those two are offensive difference-makers, but man are they gonna be disappointed when they realize both are role players who might look good in a system like the Spurs/Dubs/Hawks have but look awful in our clogged toilet.

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

The Batum trade will likely be just yet another example of why the west is so much better than the east. Shot sighted trades to win now with the long term asset going west.

Drafting Frank was one of the most bone headed moves ever by Cho. In no model anywhere was Frank rated above Winslow. Just goes to show that the FO doesn't really use analytics well. (Or take PR backlash into account)

Lamb trades were OK, but that the small scale move type that Cho has shown himself to be good at.

Lance trade was tolerable, given what we know. Cho was lucky to get any value for him.

Overall a bad showing, especially over the past few days.

[Flip Murray]

this dude is either a buffoon or a yes man or both. He's going to have to make an incredible trade and even then he probably won't change my mind.

[Diop]

we sucked last year and I think he was told to improve the team at all costs.

so that's exactly what he did.

i think he was allowed to tank for the MKG year and that was it. patience was spent.

[MasterIchiro]

Thank you Tom Sorenson of the Charlotte Observer

...talent acquisition is the weakest facet of this franchise...Cho is the hierarchy’s flaw. Cold but true: If he continues to miss, fans won’t miss him when Charlotte finds a new general manager...My unsolicited advice Thursday is to emphasize instinct over analytics. If you’re going to draft a guy who can run and jump, try to ensure that he can play. If I make the pick I work to move up and take Hezonja. When that fails, I look to move down. When that fails, I take Cauley-Stein.

I get to fail.

Cho does not.

On Cho's picks…

Vonleh

Is he an athlete or a player?

PJ

Hairston spent the season going one-on-one against life. Life won.

Zeller

Zeller is 7-foot and he had the numbers Cho loves; he ran faster and jumped higher than the highly regarded big men that came out in the draft. What we’ve seen in Zeller’s two seasons (the latter cut short by injury): not much.

MKG

In 2012 Charlotte took Michael-Gilchrist with the draft’s second pick. Many of you don’t want to hear this, but MKG can play. He’ll never average 20 points . But he’s relentless, and every season he’s improved every facet of his game. You want him in your locker room and on your roster. In related news, the No. 2 pick in the draft should be pretty good.

Kemba

If Walker refines his jump shot, he’s a potential All-Star.

Biz

Biyombo is a nice guy.

As for Clifford...

Steve Clifford they have a coach who, because of a paucity of talent, has to create rotations with duct tape and hope. Players respect him enormously.

Does he read my stuff?

Read more here: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/tom-sorensen/article25417390.html#storylink=cpy

Lol. Ichiro, you are Sorenson.

It's far more likely he reads this board to get a pulse on his audience.

And he found my constant ridicule of Cho compelling especially before this big draft last night. The outcome must have sealed it. Not everyone hates my material though a few here who don't care for it (or me) like to posture and pretend they speak on behalf of the board.

[catsfan]

Definitely. I thought the past two drafts were just circumstance, but it is obvious that our front office is obsessed with fulfilling the BRD's PF prophecy.

I think Vonleh fell to us and they fell in love with Zeller's athletic ability. I think every move this offseason has been about getting players who can score without any set offense. Since having a solid allround roster built to be a team didn't work for the coach we went with a bunch of guys who can score without coaching help. We would have been much better off bringing in a coach who has a clue and getting the best player we could and not overpay to cover up coaching flaws. I wonder if Cho was mandated to keep Cliff so he felt he had to try to cover up for him. He was doing so well until he tried to cover up his flaws this offseason.

If bringing in guys who can score without a set offense is truly our goal we are failing miserably. Batum does not create offense for himself, the vast majority of his shots are catch-and-shoot threes. Kaminsky has zero chance of creating offense for himself in the NBA, he's going to need to be fed the ball in his spots. I don't doubt the front office has deluded itself into thinking those two are offensive difference-makers, but man are they gonna be disappointed when they realize both are role players who might look good in a system like the Spurs/Dubs/Hawks have but look awful in our clogged toilet.

i think a better way to put it is take advantage of the open shot the defense gives them within the offense. how many times last year between hendo, cody, lance, mkg does the ball find it to them in position to either have an open jumper or "option for an offensive move" to only be stopped cold deer in headlights because said player can not or is not willing to put up a score. that leads to a pass out to kemba for a late shot clock hurl. batum can and will hit an open look and is decisive. lamb will hit an open shot. frank will knock down the cody jumper or work the block in a mismatch type situation.

but in terms of play creators, none of them should be expected for that. and to add, i don't think winslow will ever be that guy either, so it isn't worth getting bent out of shape over not taking him if that is the reason. it is worth it to complain the cho had him higher rated or that he isn't a better asset for future trades.

[mrknowitall215]

In no model anywhere was Frank rated above Winslow.

Shooting...

I'll try to find it, but there was a ESPN Insider article that said Kaminsky's shooting skills was among the best of any of the draft prospects, and the most likely to translate to the NBA

[stinger14]

In no model anywhere was Frank rated above Winslow.

Shooting...

I'll try to find it, but there was a ESPN Insider article that said Kaminsky's shooting skills was among the best of any of the draft prospects, and the most likely to translate to the NBA

No proof of this though,

Frank 41% from deep as a Senior
Winslow 41% from deep as a Freshman

3 years younger, already posting same numbers and then considering Frank had advantages because the bigs defending him were not use to guarding out that far, while Winslow was guarded by smalls that were use to it, then Winslow looks to more than hold his own. Winslow has a much brighter future

[BeesWax]

I think Vonleh fell to us and they fell in love with Zeller's athletic ability. I think every move this offseason has been about getting players who can score without any set offense. Since having a solid allround roster built to be a team didn't work for the coach we went with a bunch of guys who can score without coaching help. We would have been much better off bringing in a coach who has a clue and getting the best player we could and not overpay to cover up coaching flaws. I wonder if Cho was mandated to keep Cliff so he felt he had to try to cover up for him. He was doing so well until he tried to cover up his flaws this offseason.

If bringing in guys who can score without a set offense is truly our goal we are failing miserably. Batum does not create offense for himself, the vast majority of his shots are catch-and-shoot threes. Kaminsky has zero chance of creating offense for himself in the NBA, he's going to need to be fed the ball in his spots. I don't doubt the front office has deluded itself into thinking those two are offensive difference-makers, but man are they gonna be disappointed when they realize both are role players who might look good in a system like the Spurs/Dubs/Hawks have but look awful in our clogged toilet.

i think a better way to put it is take advantage of the open shot the defense gives them within the offense. how many times last year between hendo, cody, lance, mkg does the ball find it to them in position to either have an open jumper or "option for an offensive move" to only be stopped cold deer in headlights because said player can not or is not willing to put up a score. that leads to a pass out to kemba for a late shot clock hurl. batum can and will hit an open look and is decisive. lamb will hit an open shot. frank will knock down the cody jumper or work the block in a mismatch type situation.

but in terms of play creators, none of them should be expected for that. and to add, i don't think winslow will ever be that guy either, so it isn't worth getting bent out of shape over not taking him if that is the reason. it is worth it to complain the cho had him higher rated or that he isn't a better asset for future trades.

There is no offense to get shots within. Cho went after guys who can score and pass and do things on their own strictly because Clifford is a moron on offense. Batum is a very good passer and Frank is a solid passer too. We have to get guys who can create something from nothing because our offense provides nothing. This was a cover up Clifford's mistakes pick and trade all the way.

[EmpireFalls]

You know, getting to the free throw line at an elite rate mixed with good 3 shooting is how players like Harden and Butler average 23+ a game. Winslow has the body, the craftiness, and the confidence to do the first part, and he shot 41% in college.

This is a wing-dominated league, make no mistake. You don't pass on a player who compares to Jimmy Butler at 9. Our roster is missing a player who gets to the rim and can finish through contact (MKG can do this somewhat but his **** jumper and our horrible spacing limits it)

[KDATX]

What trades were proposed to us for winslow at 9? did we ever find out?