Super Lintendo: The Jeremy Lin Thread

[Reflexx]

If we have a good season, things should go great with our new Lin fans. If we struggle though, especially if Kemba struggles a bit out the gate...it's gonna get awkward.

I friend of mine said that Kemba's been struggling his entire career...

Hasn't gone through an entire season without having his spot questioned for one reason or another. And I've been on both sides of the fence arguing too.

I think you'll find that if Kemba plays poorly, there will be a lot of people calling for Lin to get a chance to start.

...and that's the way it should be with any starter on any team.

Provided of course that Lin is playing well. If he's not... well, then I guess Kemba can feel comfy.

[Reflexx]

Next, Lin was traded to the Lakers. It all started off the same way with Mitch Kupchak saying he has been after Lin for 3 years and Byron Scott claiming to be a huge J Lin fan.

Once the season started, Lin was who he is. An efficient point guard putting up 50-40-90 percentages while Kobe was putting up under 30%. This got Kobe jealous of Lin and also that Lin was the main guy on the team and the same marginalization started. Kobe along with BScott who is just a Kobe worshipper began the process to eliminate and reduce Lin because he was outshining Kobe and producing well to the point people were questioning if this is Lin's team and he should take the last shot. They benched Lin for a career scrub Ronnie Price who Scott labeled head of the snake while Kobe went on to call Lin a coward, a p***y as well as other heinous names. The marginalization did not stop there. Lakers commentators Stu Lantz got in as well exaggerating every Lin turnover and missed shot while giving no credit to his play. Meanwhile the agenda was on full pace to do whatever it takes to get Kobe to beat MJ in scoring.

Things got worse from there. Once Price got injured, inferior rookie Clarkson was promoted to start ahead of the superior Lin. SO now was Lin not only backing up Price but also Clarkson. he would get 1 minute at the end fo each quarter and when he was hot, Scott used to yank him out.

I can go on and on but I am finally happy that Lin has chosen Hornets and Bobcats seem receptive of him.

SOrry for the two long stories but it had to be put out there.

While I think a lot of your Rockets assessment was pretty accurate, your Lakers one is pretty far off.

The deal with Lin on the Lakers is that Scott isn't a very good X & O's coach. He's more of a motivational speaker type guy. In his previous good coaching runs he had very good assistants. But players eventually started tuning Scott out because they realized it was the assistants that knew everything.

On the Lakers, Scott has mainly inexperienced assistants that won't make him look bad. But most of his PG coaching involves him telling the PG to just take charge and do something. Make something happen.

While that will work with guys like Westbrook or CP3, it's not going to work with Lin. Lin is very good, but he's not a superstar level player. Lin excels in a system where the whole team is on the same page and his bigs set solid picks for him. It was evident in the preseason when Lin was often teamed up with Ed Davis. Lin and Davis both looked to have amazing chemistry. It seemed obvious tha they were an ideal pairing. As soon as the season started, it was extremely rare to see Lin and Davis on the floor at the same time for more than 30 seconds. It was pretty strange, but I think Byron saw the need for picks as a weakness and was attempting to draw something out of Lin. But that's not Lin's style. Byron was trying to turn Lin into a different kind of player instead of coaching the player he had.

Kobe was frustrated because as he said about Lin, "He's really good." But Kobe wanted Lin to be an alpha dog. He wanted Lin to take charge and strike fear into his teammates if they didn't comply. Kobe wanted Lin to have a Kobe attitude.

Kobe was never jealous of Lin. Kobe wanted Lin to turn into Kobe, but that's not the kind of guy he is.

[Roy Tarpley]

What should we expect if Kemba and Lin both play well? I'm guessing the majority will be happy but are there going to be a couple people clamoring for Lin to start if he averages like half an assist more per/36minutes or something silly like that?

If Walker and Lin both play well, I don't think you'll hear any complaining from Lin fans. Lin fans will complain if Lin is playing well and not getting solid playing time (i.e., 30+ mpg).

During the first year on the Rockets, when Lin got 32 mpg, Lin fans were fine even though he played second billing to Harden.

Lin fans were annoyed when he was benched for Beverley, and only got 28 mpg -- but were still generally okay since Lin got a lot of 4th quarter minutes.

Lin fans were very angry on the Lakers, when Lin was benched for Ronnie Price despite having a great month of November, and when his minutes basically went down to the low 20s.

Given the poor G depth on the Hornets, I think Lin will get his share of minutes. The problem is if Fs like Marvin or Hansbrough suck it up and still get lots of minutes, when the Hornets could instead be playing MKG or Batum at the 4 and opening more time on the SG slot.

[Braggins]

Its hard to give a bench player more than 26-28 minutes per game unless he is legitimately an elite 6th man or you have an extremely shallow bench. I don't really think either of those are the case. Are people really going to complain if he isn't getting 30+ minutes?

[Braggins]

What should we expect if Kemba and Lin both play well? I'm guessing the majority will be happy but are there going to be a couple people clamoring for Lin to start if he averages like half an assist more per/36minutes or something silly like that?

If Walker and Lin both play well, I don't think you'll hear any complaining from Lin fans. Lin fans will complain if Lin is playing well and not getting solid playing time (i.e., 30+ mpg).
The problem is if Fs like Marvin or Hansbrough suck it up and still get lots of minutes, when the Hornets could instead be playing MKG or Batum at the 4 and opening more time on the SG slot.

Id go ahead an prepare yourself for that to happen. I'm not saying it definitely will happen, but given Cliffords history there is probably more than a decent chance.

[Roy Tarpley]

Its hard to give a bench player more than 26-28 minutes per game unless he is legitimately an elite 6th man or you have an extremely shallow bench. I don't really think either of those are the case. Are people really going to complain if he isn't getting 30+ minutes?

It's hard to tell without specific facts and understanding the context. Lin could get 30 minutes in the following scenario:

Walker gets 34 minutes and Lin gets all his backup 14 minutes at the 1. Batum gets 18 minutes at SG, Lin gets 16, and Daniels or Lamb gets 14. Batum would then also get 18 minutes at SF, with MKG getting 30.

Again, Lin seemed to have an understanding with Cho and Clifford about this role on the Hornets and it's hard to imagine that he would've picked the Hornets if we wasn't going to get more time than he got on the crappy Lakers (26 mpg).

Again, it's context specific. Lin may be getting 28 mpg, and it'd be fine if the Hornets had a good record and the other players were doing well. But 28 mpg may not be okay if Lin is doing well and the Hornets have a terrible record, and Walker is shooting 38% and Marvin is shooting 40% as a SF and getting 20 mpg. It'd be hard for Lin fans to complain if the team is playing well.

[Reflexx]

I dont think that 30 min is necessary. As long as things make sense, then fans will be appeased.

The problem with Lin on the Lakers wasn't the minutes played, it was the context.

He was playing behind Ronnie Price, a pretty bad 3rd string level player that had that "tough" personality that Byron Scott likes.

When Lin was on the bench, Davis was starting. When Lin started, Davis was on the bench. Davis was pretty much the only big willing to play team ball and set solid picks and roll hard to the basket.

When Lin was having great games, he'd be pulled for unknown reasons. Lin wasn't the only victim of Scott's horrible decision making, ut he did have the biggest fan base of the guys who got screwed with.

[Roy Tarpley]

I don't give that much weight to the Davis-Lin pairing. Sure, they worked well together and it would have made sense if they played more together (which should've happened if Scott only benched Boozer and not Lin in December). But Lin needs to be more multidimensional and can't expect to have a Davis safety blanket with him. His success cannot be dependent on one player.

And it wasn't. Even when he didn't share anytime with Davis in November, he still had solid numbers and percentages.

I just read today that Bryant has accepted the SF role, which is great -- but this change should've been made last year.

[yosemiteben]

I dont think that 30 min is necessary. As long as things make sense, then fans will be appeased.

The problem with Lin on the Lakers wasn't the minutes played, it was the context.

Agreed. Lin never mentioned PT in his explanation of why he picked Charlotte. If he wanted a guaranteed 30+ MPG, good chance he came to the wrong place.

[spaceballer]

I dont think that 30 min is necessary. As long as things make sense, then fans will be appeased.

The problem with Lin on the Lakers wasn't the minutes played, it was the context.

Agreed. Lin never mentioned PT in his explanation of why he picked Charlotte. If he wanted a guaranteed 30+ MPG, good chance he came to the wrong place.

Actually, he did mention playtime as one factor. But not just any playtime, he wants to be able to play his game. He wanted the team with the most playtime that allows him to play his style. So I guess that means he would turn down a team with more playtime elsewhere that didn't allow him to play his style, in favor of less playtime on a team that allowed him to play his style. But playtime is definitely a factor. He said he wanted to go to the team that promised him the most playtime with his style.

I guess that means he'd rather play 30 minutes off the bench in a Manu Ginobili role rather than 40 minutes as a starter in a Derek Fisher role. He just wants to get back to enjoying basketball, playing his game, and helping his team win.

My number 1 priority was finding the best opportunity to get the most minutes playing my style of play. Wont get too much into it, but Charlotte was by far the best choice. Spoke to Coach Clifford for a couple hours and really understands my game. I feel like he will bring out the best in me.

https://www.facebook.com/jeremylin7/posts/1660507667517168

I'm not sure what will happen in the season, or what Cliff said to Lin in order to get him to take a below market contract in Charlotte. But minutes, role, and opportunity seem to have been part of the discussion.

I don't think the exact minutes matter, as long as he gets to play his style of game and help the team win.

[yosemiteben]

I don't think the exact minutes matter, as long as he gets to play his style of game and help the team win.

Completely agree.

[Reflexx]

I don't give that much weight to the Davis-Lin pairing. Sure, they worked well together and it would have made sense if they played more together (which should've happened if Scott only benched Boozer and not Lin in December). But Lin needs to be more multidimensional and can't expect to have a Davis safety blanket with him. His success cannot be dependent on one player.

And it wasn't. Even when he didn't share anytime with Davis in November, he still had solid numbers and percentages.

I just read today that Bryant has accepted the SF role, which is great -- but this change should've been made last year.

I agree with you. But I don't really think of it as Lin being dependent on Davis in particular, but more about Davis's style of play. Davis did what you expect a big to do. Boozer was kind of weak on his picks, but was somewhat decent. Hill was horrible. He'd leave the pick before Lin even got there. Black was okay.

Lin did end up having some really good performances regardless, but it was more in spite of Byron.

[blueice]

^


Well, I don't think I need to comment on that.

The Rockets RealGM was terrific, thanks. The Lakers......not so much......they were just more subtle and gradual than CF.

The Rockets RealGM is the only place/forum that I can be treated as a true Rockets fan without being accused of being a Lin fan. CF is the worst no doubt. LakersGround is actually very good.

Although it's also true that they've had enough so they closed the Lin thread in lightning speed after Lin announced signing with Hornets lol


從我的 用 iPhone 發送

[ChokeFasncists]

LakersGround is actually very good.

Thx, I was just gonna add that. Unfortunately I didn't post there. The RealGM Lakers modding was fine at first but got real bad after a while.

As for Lin's Laker year, I think it was more of a circumstantial thing. The Lakers last year were trying to do two things: 1. showcase Kobe 2. lose enough games for the pick. Lin was helping neither. I don't think it's anybody's fault, except maybe Lin letting himself be affected by all that, instead of getting his consistently and that's it.

I doubt in a normal situation Byron Scott would substitute the historically bad D starters with the historically bad O starters. He can't be that bad. He had orders to tank and it was a great success.

As for Lin next year, I would be OK if his PT is close to 30 and he gets to facilitate. The thing I hate most is to have a ballhog play a losing style while the team doesn't utilize Lin's ball sharing style (usually more conducive to winning).

[steady]

Its hard to give a bench player more than 26-28 minutes per game unless he is legitimately an elite 6th man or you have an extremely shallow bench. I don't really think either of those are the case. Are people really going to complain if he isn't getting 30+ minutes?

Lin is not a superstar but he really isn't typical bench material either. He was a 6th man that usually closed games including all playoff games for Rockets once he went to bench. Plus given how effective Lin has always been playing with other PGs, and given that Batum's natural position is SF, Lin getting 28+ minutes on this roster is not unrealistic.

We'll see how he plays - but I think he might surprise some of you who have not seem him play a lot. He makes getting into the paint look shockingly easy because of his quick first step, his quickness on the court has been measured as on the John Wall level, and he finishes at the rim at an elite rate. And he is very effective off of PnRs.

What is important to Lin's play is how much a team emphasizes team ball. Lin is very much a team player - just his nature . He will play team ball even if no one else on the floor seemingly has any interest in playing that with him. (See last year's Lakers). My startin impression is that Kemba and MKG will be good team players. Batum too. Don't have enough information to judge the others but am guessing they will follow lead.

And before people get too fired up about Lin/Kemba wars, My prediction is that Lin will be good for Kembas game, and that they will get along well

[spaceballer]

Lin at TAG Heuer event in Beijing. The Swiss luxury watch maker is releasing a line of designer watches named after him, I think. Other athletes signed with TAG Heuer are Maria Sharapova and Cristiano Ronaldo. Jeremy, with his Harvard background, is the only NBA player chosen by TAG Heuer to target the high end affluent market.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGXJstGZ5HE[/youtube]

[Braggins]

Its hard to give a bench player more than 26-28 minutes per game unless he is legitimately an elite 6th man or you have an extremely shallow bench. I don't really think either of those are the case. Are people really going to complain if he isn't getting 30+ minutes?

Lin is not a superstar but he really isn't typical bench material either. He was a 6th man that usually closed games including all playoff games for Rockets once he went to bench. Plus given how effective Lin has always been playing with other PGs, and given that Batum's natural position is SF, Lin getting 28+ minutes on this roster is not unrealistic.

We'll see how he plays - but I think he might surprise some of you who have not seem him play a lot. He makes getting into the paint look shockingly easy because of his quick first step, his quickness on the court has been measured as on the John Wall level, and he finishes at the rim at an elite rate. And he is very effective off of PnRs.

What is important to Lin's play is how much a team emphasizes team ball. Lin is very much a team player - just his nature . He will play team ball even if no one else on the floor seemingly has any interest in playing that with him. (See last year's Lakers). My startin impression is that Kemba and MKG will be good team players. Batum too. Don't have enough information to judge the others but am guessing they will follow lead.

And before people get too fired up about Lin/Kemba wars, My prediction is that Lin will be good for Kembas game, and that they will get along well

Its still hard for any bench player, even if they are good, to get 30 or more minutes a game. 28 is a lot for a 6th man. Very few bench players get more minutes for that. If you want him to get regular starter minutes he would basically have to get all of the backup minutes at PG and SG. I just don't think that is a realistic expectation for him even if he is clearly our best bench player. He isn't as good as the very few bench guys that play as much as some people seem to expect him to. If he outplays Kemba and takes the starting job its a different story, but as a 6th man I wouldn't expect him to get more than 28mpg here.

I'm saying nothing bad against Lin. I think he is a good 6th man and will likely be our best player coming off the bench, but I kind of get the vibe that a few of the ultra Lin fans automatically expect him to either start or get treated like hes prime Manu if he comes off the bench.

[qiantom]

Its hard to give a bench player more than 26-28 minutes per game unless he is legitimately an elite 6th man or you have an extremely shallow bench. I don't really think either of those are the case. Are people really going to complain if he isn't getting 30+ minutes?

Lin is not a superstar but he really isn't typical bench material either. He was a 6th man that usually closed games including all playoff games for Rockets once he went to bench. Plus given how effective Lin has always been playing with other PGs, and given that Batum's natural position is SF, Lin getting 28+ minutes on this roster is not unrealistic.

We'll see how he plays - but I think he might surprise some of you who have not seem him play a lot. He makes getting into the paint look shockingly easy because of his quick first step, his quickness on the court has been measured as on the John Wall level, and he finishes at the rim at an elite rate. And he is very effective off of PnRs.

What is important to Lin's play is how much a team emphasizes team ball. Lin is very much a team player - just his nature . He will play team ball even if no one else on the floor seemingly has any interest in playing that with him. (See last year's Lakers). My startin impression is that Kemba and MKG will be good team players. Batum too. Don't have enough information to judge the others but am guessing they will follow lead.

And before people get too fired up about Lin/Kemba wars, My prediction is that Lin will be good for Kembas game, and that they will get along well

Its still hard for any bench player, even if they are good, to get 30 or more minutes a game. 28 is a lot for a 6th man. Very few bench players get more minutes for that. If you want him to get regular starter minutes he would basically have to get all of the backup minutes at PG and SG. I just don't think that is a realistic expectation for him even if he is clearly our best bench player. He isn't as good as the very few bench guys that play as much as some people seem to expect him to. If he outplays Kemba and takes the starting job its a different story, but as a 6th man I wouldn't expect him to get more than 28mpg here.

I'm saying nothing bad against Lin. I think he is a good 6th man and will likely be our best player coming off the bench, but I kind of get the vibe that a few of the ultra Lin fans automatically expect him to either start or get treated like hes prime Manu if he comes off the bench.

Batum is going to play quite some SF, so there will be more backup SG minutes than you imagine.

[JDR720]

our last few bench PG's (most of which were the 6th man) minutes

Mo 30.8mpg, that is including 14 starts when Kemba got hurt.
Brian Roberts 18mpg
Sessions 23.7 and 27.1

just under 25mpg is the average, thats probably within a minute or two of what Lin will get.

If i had to guess, probably 16mpg at PG and 10 at SG, mostly in a duel PG lineup.

[yosemiteben]

Batum is going to play quite some SF, so there will be more backup SG minutes than you imagine.

So basically you think Lin is going to eat into MKG's minutes?