2019 Draft Discussion

[LofJ]

Mitch said again that the team is looking to move up for the right price. He specifically mentioned moving up 2, 4, or 5 spots. That's interesting because the first two belong to the Hawks and the last to the Bulls, and both of these teams have been mentioned as exploring draft trades. So Mitch might not be BSing us with the possibility of noving up.

That said the only guy that may be worth moving up for outside of the top 2 is Sekou. If he isn't the target this team needs to reevaluate how it looks at players. Guys like White, Culver, Reddish, and Hunter are good prospects; but not nearly enough separates them from Langford, Washington, NAW, Hachimura, and Little to make it worth the usual price to move up.

Sekou looks like he could develop into something special though, I'm honestly not sure why he isn't in play for the 4th pick.

Edit: When it comes to the draft the guys that later turn into stars but get missed on in the draft are almost always international, small school, or upperclassmen players. Giannis, Leonard, Lillard, Ginobili, Parker, Curry, Draymond, Jokic, Gobert, Butler, Siakam, and Brogdon all fall into one of these categories.

Which just goes to show you how absolutely awful this team's scouting was during the Cho/Higgins tenure. They barely ever bothered to do deep dives to try to find these players. Routinely selling 2nd round picks and always drafting big school, younger players. And the times they did go international or for upperclassmen they either ignored actual basketball skills (i.e. Biyombo) or failed to take into account that the game is played on two different sides of the court (Kaminsky).

I don't know if the group the team has now is better, but the bar is pretty low.

[SWedd523]

Edit: When it comes to the draft the guys that later turn into stars but get missed on in the draft are almost always international, small school, or upperclassmen players. Giannis, Leonard, Lillard, Ginobili, Parker, Curry, Draymond, Jokic, Gobert, Butler, Siakam, and Brogdon all fall into one of these categories.

Lol so literally anything other than an underclassman from a big school? You're casting a pretty wide net there for your generalization.

[LofJ]

Edit: When it comes to the draft the guys that later turn into stars but get missed on in the draft are almost always international, small school, or upperclassmen players. Giannis, Leonard, Lillard, Ginobili, Parker, Curry, Draymond, Jokic, Gobert, Butler, Siakam, and Brogdon all fall into one of these categories.

Lol so literally anything other than an underclassman from a big school? You're casting a pretty wide net there for your generalization.

Those guys are who get taken early in the lottery. I'm talking about guys later in the lottery and into the 2nd round.

If you want to gain an advantage you have to work harder to find great players. In other words you can't just look at RSCI rankings and who you saw in big-time college games.

[Braggins]

Mitch said again that the team is looking to move up for the right price. He specifically mentioned moving up 2, 4, or 5 spots. That's interesting because the first two belong to the Hawks and the last to the Bulls, and both of these teams have been mentioned as exploring draft trades. So Mitch might not be BSing us with the possibility of noving up.

That said the only guy that may be worth moving up for outside of the top 2 is Sekou. If he isn't the target this team needs to reevaluate how it looks at players. Guys like White, Culver, Reddish, and Hunter are good prospects; but not nearly enough separates them from Langford, Washington, NAW, Hachimura, and Little to make it worth the usual price to move up.

Sekou looks like he could develop into something special though, I'm honestly not sure why he isn't in play for the 4th pick.

Coby White might also be worth it if the price to move up is low enough.

[SWedd523]

Edit: When it comes to the draft the guys that later turn into stars but get missed on in the draft are almost always international, small school, or upperclassmen players. Giannis, Leonard, Lillard, Ginobili, Parker, Curry, Draymond, Jokic, Gobert, Butler, Siakam, and Brogdon all fall into one of these categories.

Lol so literally anything other than an underclassman from a big school? You're casting a pretty wide net there for your generalization.

Those guys are who get taken early in the lottery. I'm talking about guys later in the lottery and into the 2nd round.

If you want to gain an advantage you have to work harder to find great players. In other words you can't just look at RSCI rankings and who you saw in big-time college games.

So is it anything other than an underclassman from a big school or a guy 12 and later? Because those are two separate things.

Besides, it's kind of a weak argument don't you think?

Was Draymond the 35th pick because every team in the league scouted bad? Or because he exceeded the expectations based on his production and physical attributes?

The draft is a crapshoot. It's based on projections regarding multiple variables, of which none are concrete. You can't just pick a young guy, or a great athlete, or a high production player, or a smart player.


Not to mention the crazy style of play shift the game has seen in the past decade or so

Nobody knew Kahwi would blow up and be a legitimate offensive threat and go to player

Nobody knew Steph would revolutionize the game and be a multiple league MVP player.

We live in the now. The best you can hope for is to find a guy who fits the most of the "successful NBA player" traits: athletic, tall/long for their position, great scorer/shooter, great ball handler, great passer, etc. And hope for the best.

The argument you should be making is that the Hornets tend to pick guys who have glaring holes in their makeup that they need to overcome in order to succeed

Kemba being tiny (he obviously overcame that)
MKG being a mostly non-factor on offense with a broken shot
Biyombo being an athlete and not a basketball player
Morrison having no athleticism
Zeller having no length or real shooting ability
Etc.

They bucked that trend recently with guys like Bacon, Monk, and Miles and at least two of them are looking like long term contributors

[LofJ]

Lol so literally anything other than an underclassman from a big school? You're casting a pretty wide net there for your generalization.

Those guys are who get taken early in the lottery. I'm talking about guys later in the lottery and into the 2nd round.

If you want to gain an advantage you have to work harder to find great players. In other words you can't just look at RSCI rankings and who you saw in big-time college games.

So is it anything other than an underclassman from a big school or a guy 12 and later? Because those are two separate things.

Besides, it's kind of a weak argument don't you think?

Was Draymond the 35th pick because every team in the league scouted bad? Or because he exceeded the expectations based on his production and physical attributes?

The draft is a crapshoot. It's based on projections regarding multiple variables, of which none are concrete. You can't just pick a young guy, or a great athlete, or a high production player, or a smart player.


Not to mention the crazy style of play shift the game has seen in the past decade or so

Nobody knew Kahwi would blow up and be a legitimate offensive threat and go to player

Nobody knew Steph would revolutionize the game and be a multiple league MVP player.

We live in the now. The best you can hope for is to find a guy who fits the most of the "successful NBA player" traits: athletic, tall/long for their position, great scorer/shooter, great ball handler, great passer, etc. And hope for the best.

The argument you should be making is that the Hornets tend to pick guys who have glaring holes in their makeup that they need to overcome in order to succeed

Kemba being tiny (he obviously overcame that)
MKG being a mostly non-factor on offense with a broken shot
Biyombo being an athlete and not a basketball player
Morrison having no athleticism
Zeller having no length or real shooting ability
Etc.

They bucked that trend recently with guys like Bacon, Monk, and Miles and at least two of them are looking like long term contributors

It's both. It's easy to take guys who were highly recruited and had good college stats as underclassmen. They have a better chance at being difference makers. And they almost always go early in the lottery because of that.

But if you're drafting outside of that range you have to dig deeper to find players that will be just as good. And those players are typically what I said - international, upperclassmen, or they went to small schools. Why is that? Because it takes more effort to scout those guys. There are a lot more of them and you can't watch them on television. So you have to really put in the work to find them. That's where elite scouting teams like the Spurs, Nuggets, etc. shine.

[SWedd523]

I think we're both talking past each other and you're bordering on some correlation -> causation points

[BlackOutBuzz]

NAW and Keldon Johnson added to the green room.

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Bol Bol rounds out the room.

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[LofJ]

I think we're both talking past each other and you're bordering on some correlation -> causation points

The fact that it's harder to find above average players from a much larger and also much less scrutinized pool is hardly bordering on a correlation equals causation false equivalency. Additionally, just because it's harder doesn't mean you can't get good at it and outperform your peers. That's where the best always shine through, at the margins where things become more difficult.

That's why guys like UNCNYC who may get their player rankings all screwed up may be better at player evaluation that they appear at first glance. They aren't just looking at a few dozen players, they're looking at hundreds of guys. He's putting in a lot of effort and that always counts for something. I'd rather listen to their opinions than someone like Cho who trades a 1st round pick and then proceeds to hold a press conference while the draft is still happening. That's someone who is barely trying at all.

MJ should have fired him the day after that draft.

[JMAC3]

I’m a IU fan, and idk if it’s just Romeo being a 1 and done player or what, but I don’t love him as a prospect.

Honestly I wasn’t a big fan of Zeller or Voneh when we picked them either. Oladipo was my guy and always a big fan of OG, even after he missed most of IU season when he got hurt.

Anyways back to Romeo, he just doesn’t excite me. For one, he can only finish with his right hand... I’ll wait while you watch the film. Also, if you did watch the film, the guy never dunks the ball. At 6-5 he should be dunking a lot in college.

His best strengths are his first step, long strides and longer arms. Other than that he doesn’t do anything spectacular. He doesn’t have much wiggle in his game, mainly a straight line driver. He does get to the line a lot, but mainly because he is always in attack mode.

We all know his jumper is meh, I think his wrist did affect his shooting some. However that doesn’t make up for the fact he isn’t anything special on defense and a below average passer at this point.

Not saying he will bust, but I don’t love his upside. I think best case he can be very similar to Kevin Martin, who was great, but more likely he ends up like a J Lamb. Lamb wouldn’t be awful comp, but he has a long way to go to reach that level.


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[BlackOutBuzz]

For those keeping score: looks like the Hornets have met with 4 green room invitees.

Brandon Clarke
Nassir Little
Nickeil Alexander-Walker
Keldon Johnson

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[BigSlam]

I think I like DeAndre Hunter. He reminds me of Kawhi Leonard.

I think I also like Bruno Fernando. He reminds me of Alonzo Mourning.

[stinger14]

I think I like DeAndre Hunter. He reminds me of Kawhi Leonard.

I think I also like Bruno Fernando. He reminds me of Alonzo Mourning.

Like Hunter for sure, I think he is underrated on his potential as a two way player

[SWedd523]

I think I also like Bruno Fernando. He reminds me of Alonzo Mourning.

blasphemer

[BigSlam]

I think I also like Bruno Fernando. He reminds me of Alonzo Mourning - only better.

blasphemer

Sorry - fixed.

See above.

[SWedd523]

I think I also like Bruno Fernando. He reminds me of Alonzo Mourning - only better.

blasphemer

Sorry - fixed.

See above.

Bruno reminds me of the one fighter from bloodsport who does the throat slash thing to JCVD

I'm probably just projecting but it would be so badass to see him adopt that move after a big block

[Liver_Pooty]

blasphemer

Sorry - fixed.

See above.

Bruno reminds me of the one fighter from bloodsport who does the throat slash thing to JCVD

I'm probably just protecting but it would be so badass to see him adopt that move after a big block

Lol

[fatlever]

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[fatlever]

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[vexco]

If we plan on moving up I'd only really want to target Hunter or Doumbaya. I probably like Hunter more than many others, though.