2014 Free Agency Thread

[Braggins]

Drummond is the only truly talented player on the Pistons and he's still raw.

When you start including guys like Josh Smith is when you get into trouble.

I think Monroe gets a max deal and they lose him for nothing.

Smith is a very very talented player...he just lacks brain cells, losing Monroe might be addition by subtraction, losing him means Smith can play PF (where he is really really good) which fixes spacing problems

He is a good athlete but not a talented player. He can't perform fundamental parts of the game at a high level. He is a poor shooter and passer. He has a low BBIQ causing him to be out of place to often. He only excels at being an athlete not being a basketball player. When he loses his athletic ability he will immediately become worthless.

Athleticism is a major part of this game. Athletic talent absolutely IS basketball talent. It isn't the only factor but it is huge. Denying that a guy is talented because you THINK he is only athletically talented makes no sense. He is actually a good passer for his position. He regularly posted assist averages over 4 in Atlanta. He is actually a very solid shooter for a PF. He is not a good three pointer shooter and when he plays the 3 and spends most of the game 23 feet from the basket of course he is going to look worse as a shooter because that isn't where he needs to be taking the majority of his shots. He is also a very good ballhandler for a PF and has good defensive instincts to go along with his elite athleticism. You say he has no capacity for success or aptitude for team basketball despite putting up great assist numbers and helping Atlanta be an elite Eastern conference team as a #2 and #1 option. I'm sorry but you are pretty off base about most of these things and you really don't have any argument other than he sucked last year in Detroit. Which obviously has more to do with the situation there than his basketball talent.

[Diop]

i generally knock Smith for his idiocy but a small part of me is always intrigued on what he could do on this team.

He once averaged over 4 assists a game with Atlanta, so he can't be that terrible a passer.
That was 09/10 and he also averaged over 2 blocks, 1.6 steals and shot 50% from the field.

That Josh Smith would be good for any team.

Has he asked to be a volume scorer or did Detroit try to make him that?

If he was happy to do the McBob role, look for the smart pass, help on defence, score when required.
I think I would want to give it a shot.

[BeesWax]

Smith is a very very talented player...he just lacks brain cells, losing Monroe might be addition by subtraction, losing him means Smith can play PF (where he is really really good) which fixes spacing problems

He is a good athlete but not a talented player. He can't perform fundamental parts of the game at a high level. He is a poor shooter and passer. He has a low BBIQ causing him to be out of place to often. He only excels at being an athlete not being a basketball player. When he loses his athletic ability he will immediately become worthless.

Athleticism is a major part of this game. Athletic talent absolutely IS basketball talent. It isn't the only factor but it is huge. Denying that a guy is talented because you THINK he is only athletically talented makes no sense. He is actually a good passer for his position. He regularly posted assist averages over 4 in Atlanta. He is actually a very solid shooter for a PF. He is not a good three pointer shooter and when he plays the 3 and spends most of the game 23 feet from the basket of course he is going to look worse as a shooter because that isn't where he needs to be taking the majority of his shots. He is also a very good ballhandler for a PF and has good defensive instincts to go along with his elite athleticism. I'm sorry but you are pretty off base about most of these things.

Well this is pointless. You think there is something there and I don't. We are never going to agree on this and I am sure right now we are both positive the other is crazy and that we have won. Smith sucks and is a net negative and lacks basketball skills. He is a great athlete but brings nothing basketball to the table more than he would football or any other sport. I get you somehow think he has some value but I don't and I think I was proven correct this year. Your argument has them keeping Monroe and Smith and EVERYONE on this board hopes that is true because they can't play together. Why? Because Smith has a lack of basketball talent that makes it pointless to take him out of the only position where his athletic ability gives him any sort of advantage.

[BeesWax]

i generally knock Smith for his idiocy but a small part of me is always intrigued on what he could do on this team.

He once averaged over 4 assists a game with Atlanta, so he can't be that terrible a passer.
That was 09/10 and he also averaged over 2 blocks, 1.6 steals and shot 50% from the field.

That Josh Smith would be good for any team.

Has he asked to be a volume scorer or did Detroit try to make him that?

If he was happy to do the McBob role, look for the smart pass, help on defence, score when required.
I think I would want to give it a shot.

A career 1.28 assist to turnover ratio keeps him not only out of the same ball park but he isn't even playing the same game as McRoberts.

[Liver_Pooty]

If Josh Smith doesn't have any basketball talent id hate to think of what you think of Biyombo or MKG, or almost everyone on our team.

[Braggins]

He is a good athlete but not a talented player. He can't perform fundamental parts of the game at a high level. He is a poor shooter and passer. He has a low BBIQ causing him to be out of place to often. He only excels at being an athlete not being a basketball player. When he loses his athletic ability he will immediately become worthless.

Athleticism is a major part of this game. Athletic talent absolutely IS basketball talent. It isn't the only factor but it is huge. Denying that a guy is talented because you THINK he is only athletically talented makes no sense. He is actually a good passer for his position. He regularly posted assist averages over 4 in Atlanta. He is actually a very solid shooter for a PF. He is not a good three pointer shooter and when he plays the 3 and spends most of the game 23 feet from the basket of course he is going to look worse as a shooter because that isn't where he needs to be taking the majority of his shots. He is also a very good ballhandler for a PF and has good defensive instincts to go along with his elite athleticism. I'm sorry but you are pretty off base about most of these things.

Well this is pointless. You think there is something there and I don't. We are never going to agree on this and I am sure right now we are both positive the other is crazy and that we have won. Smith sucks and is a net negative and lacks basketball skills. He is a great athlete but brings nothing basketball to the table more than he would football or any other sport. I get you somehow think he has some value but I don't and I think I was proven correct this year. Your argument has them keeping Monroe and Smith and EVERYONE on this board hopes that is true because they can't play together. Why? Because Smith has a lack of basketball talent that makes it pointless to take him out of the only position where his athletic ability gives him any sort of advantage.

The difference is I have logic, facts, and past success to back up what I am seeing. All you have is one bad season in Detroit to completely convince you he sucks and is a negative. Which I really do think is pretty much crazy. Also, you are criticizing the capacity for success and aptitude for team basketball of a player who has led multiple really good playoff teams while praising players who have never even made the playoffs... You criticize Smith and call him a cancer while praising Dion Waiters, who in his two years in the league is know most for causing problems, having a terrible attitude, fighting with teammates and coaches, having a bad work ethic, and who hasn't even been able to lock down a starting spot on a sub .500 non playoff team.

[BeesWax]

If Josh Smith doesn't have any basketball talent id hate to think of what you think of Biyombo or MKG, or almost everyone on our team.

I think Jefferson has tons of talent. Kemba has good talent as does McRoberts. Most of the rest are potential laden athletes who need to develop. They obviously don't have a natural aptitude for the basketball skills like shooting or passing. MKG has a natural aptitude for positioning which is something that is a talent. He is a very good natively at putting himself in the correct spots.

[Braggins]

If Josh Smith doesn't have any basketball talent id hate to think of what you think of Biyombo or MKG, or almost everyone on our team.

Well, MasterIchiro is backing him in this argument and we all know what he thinks of MKG...

[BeesWax]

Athleticism is a major part of this game. Athletic talent absolutely IS basketball talent. It isn't the only factor but it is huge. Denying that a guy is talented because you THINK he is only athletically talented makes no sense. He is actually a good passer for his position. He regularly posted assist averages over 4 in Atlanta. He is actually a very solid shooter for a PF. He is not a good three pointer shooter and when he plays the 3 and spends most of the game 23 feet from the basket of course he is going to look worse as a shooter because that isn't where he needs to be taking the majority of his shots. He is also a very good ballhandler for a PF and has good defensive instincts to go along with his elite athleticism. I'm sorry but you are pretty off base about most of these things.

Well this is pointless. You think there is something there and I don't. We are never going to agree on this and I am sure right now we are both positive the other is crazy and that we have won. Smith sucks and is a net negative and lacks basketball skills. He is a great athlete but brings nothing basketball to the table more than he would football or any other sport. I get you somehow think he has some value but I don't and I think I was proven correct this year. Your argument has them keeping Monroe and Smith and EVERYONE on this board hopes that is true because they can't play together. Why? Because Smith has a lack of basketball talent that makes it pointless to take him out of the only position where his athletic ability gives him any sort of advantage.

The difference is I have logic, facts, and past success to back up what I am seeing. All you have is one bad season in Detroit to completely convince you he sucks and is a negative. Which I really do think is pretty much crazy. Also, you are criticizing the capacity for success and aptitude for team basketball of a player who has led multiple really good playoff teams while praising players who have never even made the playoffs... You criticize Smith and call him a cancer while praising Dion Waiters, who in his two years in the league is know most for causing problems, having a terrible attitude, fighting with teammates and coaches, having a bad work ethic, and who hasn't even been able to lock down a starting spot on a sub .500 non playoff team.

Josh Smith
Career stats
FG% - .459
3pt FG% - .279
Assist to turnover ration - 1.28

All stats that you have to have basketball talent to perform. All not good levels. Seems like the stats are on my side but I guess if you like bad PFs he is your man.

[Braggins]

Well this is pointless. You think there is something there and I don't. We are never going to agree on this and I am sure right now we are both positive the other is crazy and that we have won. Smith sucks and is a net negative and lacks basketball skills. He is a great athlete but brings nothing basketball to the table more than he would football or any other sport. I get you somehow think he has some value but I don't and I think I was proven correct this year. Your argument has them keeping Monroe and Smith and EVERYONE on this board hopes that is true because they can't play together. Why? Because Smith has a lack of basketball talent that makes it pointless to take him out of the only position where his athletic ability gives him any sort of advantage.

The difference is I have logic, facts, and past success to back up what I am seeing. All you have is one bad season in Detroit to completely convince you he sucks and is a negative. Which I really do think is pretty much crazy. Also, you are criticizing the capacity for success and aptitude for team basketball of a player who has led multiple really good playoff teams while praising players who have never even made the playoffs... You criticize Smith and call him a cancer while praising Dion Waiters, who in his two years in the league is know most for causing problems, having a terrible attitude, fighting with teammates and coaches, having a bad work ethic, and who hasn't even been able to lock down a starting spot on a sub .500 non playoff team.

Josh Smith
Career stats
FG% - .459
3pt FG% - .279
Assist to turnover ration - 1.28

All stats that you have to have basketball talent to perform. All not good levels. Seems like the stats are on my side but I guess if you like bad PFs he is your man.

Haha what? You posted three stats and left out almost all of the most important stats especially for a PF. Just stop..

[BeesWax]

The difference is I have logic, facts, and past success to back up what I am seeing. All you have is one bad season in Detroit to completely convince you he sucks and is a negative. Which I really do think is pretty much crazy. Also, you are criticizing the capacity for success and aptitude for team basketball of a player who has led multiple really good playoff teams while praising players who have never even made the playoffs... You criticize Smith and call him a cancer while praising Dion Waiters, who in his two years in the league is know most for causing problems, having a terrible attitude, fighting with teammates and coaches, having a bad work ethic, and who hasn't even been able to lock down a starting spot on a sub .500 non playoff team.

Josh Smith
Career stats
FG% - .459
3pt FG% - .279
Assist to turnover ration - 1.28

All stats that you have to have basketball talent to perform. All not good levels. Seems like the stats are on my side but I guess if you like bad PFs he is your man.

Haha what? You posted three stats and left out almost all of the most important stats especially for a PF. Just stop..

Those show his basketball skills. Not his height or his jumping. It shows where he lacks as a basketball talent. He is a hell of an athlete but with pathetic basketball talents. If he had the talent at basketball you think he does he would be an amazing player. Instead he is an amazing athlete that chose to play basketball. I am sorry but I see talent for basketball as different than athletic talent. I want to see someone who can do things skill wise others of the same size and athletic ability can't so. He is a terrible player but a great athlete.

[Bassman]

Like what Lance Stevenson did today for the Pacers. He is not a superstar but a quality young 2 that would upgrade our team.

[Eoghan]

But how much does max contract Lance Stephenson upgrade our team? Aye, therein lies the rub.

He's definitely a lot more fun to watch than Hobe.

[Liver_Pooty]

I like Stephenson a lot, but max contract? Hell no.

I would give him 10-11 mill a year though

[Joest2003]

WE NEED LANCE!!! this guy is young and would fit in perfect with the team we have now. I honestly think with Lance on the Hornets we would be east contenders instantly. Not to mention hes an exciting player who would bring a lot of buzz to the city (no pun intended)

[mrknowitall215]

I like Stephenson a lot, but max contract? Hell no.

I would give him 10-11 mill a year though

I wouldn't pay Stephenson more than $8 million annually. That'll be his market value unless a desperate team overpay for his services, and he's not worth the 8-figure pill

[Joest2003]

When you start including guys like Josh Smith is when you get into trouble.

Josh Smith is better than Josh McRoberts & Cody Zeller combined. The problem is that he make more money than both of them combined

I wouldnt even want Josh Smith if he was willing to play for free. He has no BBIQ and would instantly ruin the chemestry in the locker room. Mcroberts is the exact opposite and makes everyone he plays with better. Id like to see us lock up Mcroberts as our starting 4 for the future which is why I cant understand why we drafted Zeller and why were "targeting Monroe". When you add in the chemestry Mcroberts has with the current team and his unique style of play im not sure there is any PF I would want starting over him on the Hornets next year.

[mrknowitall215]

When you start including guys like Josh Smith is when you get into trouble.

Josh Smith is better than Josh McRoberts & Cody Zeller combined. The problem is that he make more money than both of them combined

I wouldnt even want Josh Smith if he was willing to play for free. He has no BBIQ and would instantly ruin the chemestry in the locker room. Mcroberts is the exact opposite and makes everyone he plays with better. Id like to see us lock up Mcroberts as our starting 4 for the future which is why I cant understand why we drafted Zeller and why were "targeting Monroe". When you add in the chemestry Mcroberts has with the current team and his unique style of play im not sure there is any PF I would want starting over him on the Hornets next year.

Did you think that when Josh Smith was the defensive anchor for a Hawks team that made six straight consecutive trips to the playoffs?

...or do everybody just live in the moment where he's a overpaid ill-fitted because he's playing out of position so he's inefficient player for the Pistons?

[Liver_Pooty]

Josh Smith is better than Josh McRoberts & Cody Zeller combined. The problem is that he make more money than both of them combined

I wouldnt even want Josh Smith if he was willing to play for free. He has no BBIQ and would instantly ruin the chemestry in the locker room. Mcroberts is the exact opposite and makes everyone he plays with better. Id like to see us lock up Mcroberts as our starting 4 for the future which is why I cant understand why we drafted Zeller and why were "targeting Monroe". When you add in the chemestry Mcroberts has with the current team and his unique style of play im not sure there is any PF I would want starting over him on the Hornets next year.

Did you think that when Josh Smith was the defensive anchor for a Hawks team that made six straight consecutive trips to the playoffs?

...or do everybody just live in the moment where he's a overpaid ill-fitted because he's playing out of position so he's inefficient player for the Pistons?

Josh Smith is on the downside of his career. Hes no longer a defensive anything, even at PF.

[mrknowitall215]

Josh Smith is on the downside of his career. Hes no longer a defensive anything, even at PF.

Since when? Smith is in the middle of the prime of his career, and he's basically still a good PF but a bad & inefficient SF that was playing out of position

According to 82games, Smith had a PER of 17.8 and was a +2.5 net positive player during the 50% of the time he played PF for the Pistons, but had a miserable PER of 11.5 and was a -3.3 net negative player during the other 50% of the time that he had to play SF in the lineup with Drummond/Monroe