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Motor Keeps Going: The Michael Kidd-Gilchrist Thread III

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Re: Motor Keeps Going: The Michael Kidd-Gilchrist Thread III 

Post#921 » by TinmanZBoy » Wed Jan 4, 2017 3:21 am

fatlever wrote:
Mystical Apples wrote:Thing is MKG's best assets are currently muted: switching 4 positions, putting the ball on the deck against larger players (drives, PnR, grab-n-go), cutting action, and posting 2's when teams stick poor defenders on him.

Except switching 4 positions is less awesome when your teammates can't switch 3 or even 2. Posting SG's and cutting are problems when opposing C's sag into MKG's space.


Putting a team around MKG that best fits his game is tough. We had a lot of discussions about this topic in MKGs first 3 years when we had higher hopes for MKG and Kemba had not yet blown up. Back then we talked about the best mix of player to put around MKG to highlight his strengths while hiding his weaknesses.


trade MKG to Nets to pair with Lin... :wink:

if Lin is still in the team, MKG might function better playing with the bench unit...
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Re: Motor Keeps Going: The Michael Kidd-Gilchrist Thread III 

Post#922 » by BigSlam » Wed Jan 4, 2017 5:23 am

I still think we should play him as a roll man with Bats once in a while.




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Re: Motor Keeps Going: The Michael Kidd-Gilchrist Thread III 

Post#923 » by fatlever » Wed Jan 4, 2017 5:42 am

BigSlam wrote:I still think we should play him as a roll man with Bats once in a while.




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Wouldn't teams just switch that action? We don't create any mismatches since they (and defenders) are of similar size/speed, just hoping they get lost in switch long enough to give some room for MKG to get free in paint?
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Re: Motor Keeps Going: The Michael Kidd-Gilchrist Thread III 

Post#924 » by catch20two » Wed Jan 4, 2017 6:23 am

Yea I think that'll be just a waste of shot clock.
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Re: Motor Keeps Going: The Michael Kidd-Gilchrist Thread III 

Post#925 » by Chapelchilla » Wed Jan 4, 2017 10:32 pm

Unfortunately, after watching him for years, I just don't think he is going to get much better. In fact, after the injuries, he is clearly worse this season. Even his defense has tapered off. A mid round #1 from Boston or somebody would be an ok return for him. But, I don't know if we can even get that without taking on a scrub salary. Maybe I am undervaluing him. What do ya'll think?
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Re: Motor Keeps Going: The Michael Kidd-Gilchrist Thread III 

Post#926 » by catch20two » Wed Jan 4, 2017 11:49 pm

MKG is just fine. He may not live up to what some people expected him to be but he was exactly what Charlotte needed when they drafted him. His impact as a defensive player helped give this rebuild a identity. I'm disappointed that he hasn't impacted the defensive end of the floor this season as much as he should but he's still a above average defender that is a positive net player on the floor even when he's not scoring much because of it. That draft could've went a lot worse if Charlotte would've took who concensus thought they should take, ahem, Thomas Robinson?!

Also I think 1st rounders are overrated, especially if it's not in the top half of The lottery. Most lottery picks will be role players or bust. Drafting a star is hit or miss so when you get a quality player that helps your team more than they hurt the team then that's never a bad thing.
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Re: Motor Keeps Going: The Michael Kidd-Gilchrist Thread III 

Post#927 » by GlenRiceARoni » Thu Jan 5, 2017 11:24 pm

Gotta give him his props last night he completely shut Westbrook down. That's why I was such a huge fan of his.

On top of that he hit the glass aggressively and made a few jumpers.

He absolutely has to play like that in order to overcome not being able to shoot and cramping our spacing on offense.

Kemba has proven he can still get it done without as much spacing as other "star" guards

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Re: Motor Keeps Going: The Michael Kidd-Gilchrist Thread III 

Post#928 » by yosemiteben » Mon Jan 9, 2017 1:32 am

MKG on shots 15-19 feet:


2012-13 season - 38-114 (33.3%)
2013-14 season - 20-53 (37.7%)
2014-15 season - 52-137 (38.0%)
2016-17 season - 28-66 (42.4%)

For comparison sake, random sample of FG% of other players from 15-19 feet this season:

Lamb: 18-39 (46.2%)
Melo: 66-157 (42.0%)
Tony Allen: 1-9 (11.1%)
Devin Booker: 43-114 (37.7%)
Justise Winslow: 10-38 (26.3%)
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Re: Motor Keeps Going: The Michael Kidd-Gilchrist Thread III 

Post#929 » by JMAC3 » Mon Jan 9, 2017 2:56 am

The thing that is crazy to me is that MKG doesn't turn 24 until September... He has shown slight improvement in his shooting from range. Even though he took more threes last year in 7 games than he has all this year. Seems like the team refuses to develop him into something more than a rebounder and defensive stopper. Am I saying he should be a 20 shot a night player? No. but I am saying there are ways to produce offense for him, that we just do not attempt. Below is usage percentage for the team so far this year... he ranks near last.

http://www.foxsports.com/nba/charlotte-hornets-team-stats?season=2016&category=ADVANCED&time=0

In the NBA there are several ways to create offense.

1. Pick and Roll- handlers- Kemba, Sessions, Batum and Lamb screeners- bigs
2. Post up- Hawes, Hibbert, and Frank
3. Run off pin downs or other screens- Batum, Marco, Lamb and
4. Isolate mismatch- Kemba and Lamb

For the most part the Hornets rely heavily on Pick and Roll with some off the ball screens to free up shooters. If you look at the list MKG does not fall into any of these categories. Almost all his points come off transition, offense rebounds, late clock mid range, and putbacks. How many points can he realistically score with no set offensive plays ran for him?? We need to give him more early shot clock opportunities with designed offense.

Ways to get him easy points....

1. Use him in pick and roll more in early offense, as a screener. Tons of teams run 1-3 pick and rolls and this forces teams to switch and would give MKG a smaller defender on him. Allows him to either post up or muscle his way to rim on drives- think back when he destroyed Monta Ellis earlier this year.

2. Run him off pin down screens, as he catches the ball he should be curling towards the rim with a defender on his back. As our worst shooter that leaves great options for spot up shooters around him to pick and choose if defense helps. Utah does this with their wings very effectively.

3. Play him at the 4 for stretches of the game against bench units. This should be used for small stretches of the game to try and get him some mismatches on the perimeter where he can beat his man off the dribble against backup 4s, who are usually poorer defenders.

4. Give him more catches on the elbow... Marvin in the corner, Zeller in the baseline dunker spot, and Kemba and Batum on wings. This would give him more opportunities to get to foul line and showcase his improved mid range jumper. Easy early shot clock look, if nothing is there you can easily shift out of that set into a late clock pick and roll.

5. More leak out opportunites... this one is tough because he is our best defensive rebounder, but MKG in a semi-leak out in 2 vs 2 situations are net positive plays in my mind. Dude has a bulldog mindset in transition. With Batum, Marv and Zeller there should be plenty of rebounders to let him leak out several times a quarter.

Developing MKG into a slightly more dynamic offensive player would do tons for this team. As of now, Kemba essentially creates all of our good scoring opportunities. Batum is a good secondary play maker, but Marvin is spot of shooter, MKG is a corner dweller, and Zeller is essentially only a rim runner. To take our offense to the next level we need someone else to share the usage and this would take pressure off Kemba. Frank and Hawes are far more utilized than MKG in our offense. I am one who believes he could be, and should be doing more.
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Re: Motor Keeps Going: The Michael Kidd-Gilchrist Thread III 

Post#930 » by TinmanZBoy » Mon Jan 9, 2017 8:08 am

JMAC3 wrote:The thing that is crazy to me is that MKG doesn't turn 24 until September... He has shown slight improvement in his shooting from range. Even though he took more threes last year in 7 games than he has all this year. Seems like the team refuses to develop him into something more than a rebounder and defensive stopper. Am I saying he should be a 20 shot a night player? No. but I am saying there are ways to produce offense for him, that we just do not attempt. Below is usage percentage for the team so far this year... he ranks near last.

http://www.foxsports.com/nba/charlotte-hornets-team-stats?season=2016&category=ADVANCED&time=0

In the NBA there are several ways to create offense.

1. Pick and Roll- handlers- Kemba, Sessions, Batum and Lamb screeners- bigs
2. Post up- Hawes, Hibbert, and Frank
3. Run off pin downs or other screens- Batum, Marco, Lamb and
4. Isolate mismatch- Kemba and Lamb

For the most part the Hornets rely heavily on Pick and Roll with some off the ball screens to free up shooters. If you look at the list MKG does not fall into any of these categories. Almost all his points come off transition, offense rebounds, late clock mid range, and putbacks. How many points can he realistically score with no set offensive plays ran for him?? We need to give him more early shot clock opportunities with designed offense.

Ways to get him easy points....

1. Use him in pick and roll more in early offense, as a screener. Tons of teams run 1-3 pick and rolls and this forces teams to switch and would give MKG a smaller defender on him. Allows him to either post up or muscle his way to rim on drives- think back when he destroyed Monta Ellis earlier this year.

2. Run him off pin down screens, as he catches the ball he should be curling towards the rim with a defender on his back. As our worst shooter that leaves great options for spot up shooters around him to pick and choose if defense helps. Utah does this with their wings very effectively.

3. Play him at the 4 for stretches of the game against bench units. This should be used for small stretches of the game to try and get him some mismatches on the perimeter where he can beat his man off the dribble against backup 4s, who are usually poorer defenders.

4. Give him more catches on the elbow... Marvin in the corner, Zeller in the baseline dunker spot, and Kemba and Batum on wings. This would give him more opportunities to get to foul line and showcase his improved mid range jumper. Easy early shot clock look, if nothing is there you can easily shift out of that set into a late clock pick and roll.

5. More leak out opportunites... this one is tough because he is our best defensive rebounder, but MKG in a semi-leak out in 2 vs 2 situations are net positive plays in my mind. Dude has a bulldog mindset in transition. With Batum, Marv and Zeller there should be plenty of rebounders to let him leak out several times a quarter.

Developing MKG into a slightly more dynamic offensive player would do tons for this team. As of now, Kemba essentially creates all of our good scoring opportunities. Batum is a good secondary play maker, but Marvin is spot of shooter, MKG is a corner dweller, and Zeller is essentially only a rim runner. To take our offense to the next level we need someone else to share the usage and this would take pressure off Kemba. Frank and Hawes are far more utilized than MKG in our offense. I am one who believes he could be, and should be doing more.


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Re: Motor Keeps Going: The Michael Kidd-Gilchrist Thread III 

Post#931 » by BigSlam » Mon Jan 9, 2017 1:03 pm

fatlever wrote:
BigSlam wrote:I still think we should play him as a roll man with Bats once in a while.




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Wouldn't teams just switch that action? We don't create any mismatches since they (and defenders) are of similar size/speed, just hoping they get lost in switch long enough to give some room for MKG to get free in paint?

MKG has shown the ability to post up smaller players. If the defending PG switched on to him, ISO him allowing him to back him down and create a shot in the paint or rotate Kemba around and have MKG kick out to him for the open 3.

MKG is a willing passer.


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Re: Motor Keeps Going: The Michael Kidd-Gilchrist Thread III 

Post#932 » by Robot Rock » Tue Jan 10, 2017 5:39 am

I would be beyond thrilled if we got a first-rounder for MKG.
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Re: Motor Keeps Going: The Michael Kidd-Gilchrist Thread III 

Post#933 » by fatlever » Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:20 pm

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Re: Motor Keeps Going: The Michael Kidd-Gilchrist Thread III 

Post#934 » by chellis » Tue Jan 17, 2017 4:29 pm

fatlever wrote:
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Poor placement of the hoop. Gotta work on that corner 3 a la Bruce Bowen style.
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Re: Motor Keeps Going: The Michael Kidd-Gilchrist Thread III 

Post#935 » by fatlever » Tue Jan 17, 2017 6:59 pm

That hoop tells us all we need to know about MKG. No chance to work on corner 3s, as Chellis mentions. No chance to work on 3s at all, just mid-range. No space on left side of hoop to work on left hand. Shame corner on left way too close to basket. Also, he should label that corner the shame corner.
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Re: Motor Keeps Going: The Michael Kidd-Gilchrist Thread III 

Post#936 » by GlenRiceARoni » Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:39 pm

Starting to think its hopeless. Theres 3-11 MKG and then there's 3-11 MKG

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Re: Motor Keeps Going: The Michael Kidd-Gilchrist Thread III 

Post#937 » by yosemiteben » Thu Jan 26, 2017 5:42 pm

GlenRiceARoni wrote:Starting to think its hopeless.

And then there's 7-12 MKG, including 3-4 from 15-19 feet. Still think he'll surprise us with his efficiency if we just give him time. Obviously the consistency is not there, but you can see the groundwork being laid.

I suppose this is the path we've chosen...

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Re: Motor Keeps Going: The Michael Kidd-Gilchrist Thread III 

Post#938 » by fatlever » Thu Jan 26, 2017 5:50 pm

MKG shooting something like 49% from 15-19 feet over last 15 games, which is encouraging.

But it's past time to have him in the short corner taking 3s.
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Re: Motor Keeps Going: The Michael Kidd-Gilchrist Thread III 

Post#939 » by fatlever » Thu Jan 26, 2017 5:52 pm

One thing that really bothers me about that 45 degree angle (to his left) shot is that it seems near impossible for him to get a shot off when going to his right, because they he has to contort his body back around to his preferred left angle. Might be why we see him take this gather dribbles going to his left, because that keeps his body at the angle he likes to shoot.
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Re: Motor Keeps Going: The Michael Kidd-Gilchrist Thread III 

Post#940 » by yosemiteben » Thu Jan 26, 2017 6:12 pm

Agreed on the angle, though he does occasionally get a kick out to the left corner and gets it off cleanly so I'm not super worried about it. I agree that an off the dribble shot going to his right seems really challenging with that form.

I am curious if part of the reason we don't park him in the corner for 3s is because we want him attacking the offensive glass and we want him probing the defense for cuts to the basket. He's been pretty effective in attacking the basket as a secondary scoring option off of drives by others lately.

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