Leap Year - The Kemba Walker Thread III

[Elden Payton]

Very disrespectful fan base towards Kemba

You have it the wrong way around.

Kemba disrespects this fanbase.

[Braggins]

Batum and Lin combined for 3 assists in 63 minutes last night, but there hasn't been a word about that, and Kemba leads the team in every assist related statistic. The level of butthurt and hypocrisy is getting pathetic. You guys are just mad because Kemba had a good game and you can't reconcile that with your personal narratives about the team that you desperately want to be true. I know you guys desperately wanted Lin to be your savior to save you from the big bad Kemba, but hes barely cracking 40%/30% shooting numbers and making plays/assisting at an even lower rate than Kemba and you guys are having trouble handling it. Its ok though, maybe he will outplay Kemba tonight and you guys can all clamor about how he is obviously so much better and will lead us to the promised land if we stop letting Kemba hold him back.

This is BS.

Lin is our backup and on 2m per.

Batum is a SF.

Kemba had a good game and we lost.

I'm sure Kemba is really happy with himself.

Kemba is a borderline average starting PG, who can't run an offense, doesn't defend scores inefficiently.

Recipe for disaster.

Stupid post is stupid. I guarantee Kemba is pissed that we lost. Batum and Lin have just as much responsibility to create plays and run the offense as Kemba in this system and they haven't done any better at it. In fact, they've done worse. Kemba leads the team in assists per game, assists per 36 minutes, assists per 100 possessions, assist/to ratio, and assist %. He played better defense than anyone on our team last night and was the most efficient scorer. You can rank Kemba wherever you want among the other starting PGs in the league, but that doesn't change the fact that he has been the best PG on the team this season so far. No disrespect to Lin. He has played fine, but Kemba has played a little better. People just want to make excuses for the players they like but then ignore when those same excuses apply to players they don't like. Even I will acknowledge when Al has a good game and helps the team, which he has a few times this season. Even when Kemba plays well you guys get pissed and blame everything on him because it is more comforting than accepting that the players you like didn't step up and do their part. When Kemba plays like **** we all acknowledge it. If your hero MKG could go more than 10 games without getting hurt we'd probably be one of the better teams in the league right now.

I doubt you even watched the game last night. NY made a point to shut down Batum, they doubled him the second he touched the ball for the first time, and they weren't helping off our shooters. Kemba had tons of space to operate and do his thing because of that and he exploited their strategy very well. Had he been passive and tried to be a playmaker everyone would be b*tching about him not being assertive enough. Some of you are just haters.

[JDR720]

everyone. lets cut down on the unnecessary Kemba hate, its getting a bit ridiculous

[mrknowitall215]

Very disrespectful fan base towards Kemba

You have it the wrong way around.

Kemba disrespects this fanbase.

Statements like this is exactly what I mean by "disrespectful fan base". The only way Kemba could be disrespectful to the fan base would be if he quit, didn't play hard, and didn't live up to the player he was coming out of college. Kemba's game and nature would debunk each of those demoralizing characteristics/attributes I aforementioned. It's up to the front office/staff to make it so that Kemba isn't the go-to scorer by drafting/acquiring better players and/or adopting a system around Kemba that would null & void his flaws that allegedly hold this team back. The only way I would hold Kemba accountable to holding this team back is if he was vocally adverse to Cho bringing in better talent, but he's been nothing but a consummate pro & teammate about all the others that have failed to live up to expectations around him

[Elden Payton]

He's average at best.

My hero MKG is an awesome player who has done more for this franchise than Kemba.

There is a reason why a guy like MKG is valued highly in this league and every bench in the NBA has a guy like Kemba.

Kemba provides zero skills needed in the modern NBA.

I think it's great that you guys come out of the woodwork after he has one good game.

[yosemiteben]

I think people get way too worked up about Kemba personally, both postivitely and negatively. He's like #10 on my list of issues with this team as currently constructed, and he's about #8 on my list of exciting things about this team.

[Mystical Apples]

Sorry, "build around" is the wrong team. We don't have any players with building around. They signed Kemba to a long-term deal, though, so they have to at least try to put pieces together that make sense - same with MKG and Jefferson. You can't just ignore Kemba's flaws just because you don't think he's good enough to build around - stick your head in the sand and keep trying to force him to be something he is not - or worse create a toxic situation by benching him on the first year of a 48 mil deal. As long as the franchise has the goal of making the playoffs, then they have to maximize the players they have on the roster currently. As far as Kemba is concerned, that means having someone like Batum to help him.

I get what you are saying, you want him traded or benched, but we both know that's not going to happen this year. So either you fire Clifford and Cho and rebuild, or you put players together that make sense.

Last year nothing on the roster made sense. At least this year, you can see a little bit of a plan.

I'm no more of a Kemba fan than you are. We both know that.

I don't get why Kemba to the bench is a notion that seems unfathomable, or there's an assumption it wouldn't be the best option for Kemba personally. Or for that matter why coming off the bench is a personal affront. Being under a lengthy contract or sulking are not legitimate reasons to prevent a franchise from doing what's best.

If they still view him as a long-term solution that's one thing (I don't think they do but that's besides the point). But the last thing they should do is make current and future decisions based upon a regrettable contract or 1 player's reaction to organizational decisions.

Marvin, Cody, Lin, Frank, PJ, and Lamb all seem to be fine with this idea. Batum has spent a career morphing into what is asked of him. Not sure why Al and Kemba are exempt.

[Braggins]

He's average at best.

My hero MKG is an awesome player who has done more for this franchise than Kemba.

There is a reason why a guy like MKG is valued highly in this league and every bench in the NBA has a guy like Kemba.

Kemba provides zero skills needed in the modern NBA.

I think it's great that you guys come out of the woodwork after he has one good game.

I love MKG. I think he is better than Kemba at this point (when healthy). However, saying Kemba provides zero valuable skills is nonsense and I'm not sure how you can act like we are just coming out of the woodwork because Kemba had a good game. I post on here pretty much daily and have ripped into Kemba on multiple occasions when he has played like crap this year. You on the other hand barely post on here unless it is to randomly complain about Kemba or stuff that happened during the off-season.

[Braggins]

I think people get way too worked up about Kemba personally, both postivitely and negatively. He's like #10 on my list of issues with this team as currently constructed, and he's about #8 on my list of exciting things about this team.

I agree and I admit that I'm getting a little too worked up over this. Another thing I want to add is that people are overreacting to the NY loss in general. We played fine offensively and simply didn't hit enough of the shots that we normally do. We struggled defensively and with rebounding for stretches, but it wasn't anything too bad. We fought hard and almost won a game against a pretty good team when our shots weren't falling. I'm probably as prone as anyone to overreacting to losses and I wasn't really discouraged much at all about last nights game.

[mrknowitall215]

I don't get why Kemba to the bench is a notion that seems unfathomable

Kemba to the bench for Lin is a unfathomable notion. Trading Kemba or any valuable assets for a similar but more efficient point guard like per se Ty Lawson to put Kemba on the bench is a illogical notion on improving this team. That's where the logical so-called Kemba fanboys stand and why I'm almost always opposed to it

[yosemiteben]

"postivitely"

I think my biggest concern last night is what do we do when Batum faces lock down defenders, because that's going to happen and we can't allow that to completely stall out our offense. From that perspective I can understand the concern about Kemba going into iso mode, but the concern is more because as we've seen the sort of efficiency he showed last night isn't something we can rely on. If it was, I would have no problem with him taking over the game in stretches when our other options have stalled out.

[Braggins]

Sorry, "build around" is the wrong team. We don't have any players with building around. They signed Kemba to a long-term deal, though, so they have to at least try to put pieces together that make sense - same with MKG and Jefferson. You can't just ignore Kemba's flaws just because you don't think he's good enough to build around - stick your head in the sand and keep trying to force him to be something he is not - or worse create a toxic situation by benching him on the first year of a 48 mil deal. As long as the franchise has the goal of making the playoffs, then they have to maximize the players they have on the roster currently. As far as Kemba is concerned, that means having someone like Batum to help him.

I get what you are saying, you want him traded or benched, but we both know that's not going to happen this year. So either you fire Clifford and Cho and rebuild, or you put players together that make sense.

Last year nothing on the roster made sense. At least this year, you can see a little bit of a plan.

I'm no more of a Kemba fan than you are. We both know that.

I don't get why Kemba to the bench is a notion that seems unfathomable

It isn't, but no one else has proven that they should be the starter instead. You started from the assumption that Kemba should be benched because you are a Lin fan and obviously have an agenda. Why is the notion that he could be good enough as a starter or that he is currently our best option unfathomable to you?

[Braggins]

"postivitely"

I think my biggest concern last night is what do we do when Batum faces lock down defenders, because that's going to happen and we can't allow that to completely stall out our offense. From that perspective I can understand the concern about Kemba going into iso mode, but the concern is more because as we've seen the sort of efficiency he showed last night isn't something we can rely on. If it was, I would have no problem with him taking over the game in stretches when our other options have stalled out.

Agreed. I do think it is possible that if teams continue to give him the kind of space he was getting last night that he could be efficient enough in taking over games for stretches when it is needed. When he went on a tear last season it was because teams were playing him similar to how NY was last night. I think the way he played last night was perfectly fine. The question is going to be whether or not he tries to get his shot off that aggressively when the defense isn't giving him that kind of space. The last NY game they were defending him much more aggressively and he was trying to force his shot anyways, and it was a disastrous game for him. Its all about him picking and choosing his spots and taking what the defense is giving. Against Portland he wasn't getting the open looks that he was last night and so he kept the ball moving. He didn't have a big night statistically, but he played the way we needed him to in order for us to win. Obviously, tons of people complained about the way he played against Portland too, but whatever. I don't know why some of our fans aren't willing to give him a chance to adjust to playing on a team with plenty of options that doesn't need him to try to take over every game. I've been the biggest Al hater on this board over the last two years and even I can say that I am fine with the way Al has played offensively (for the most part) and I wouldn't really have a problem with him if his body didn't seem shot and it was possible for him to ever play good defense.

[fatlever]

Sorry, "build around" is the wrong team. We don't have any players with building around. They signed Kemba to a long-term deal, though, so they have to at least try to put pieces together that make sense - same with MKG and Jefferson. You can't just ignore Kemba's flaws just because you don't think he's good enough to build around - stick your head in the sand and keep trying to force him to be something he is not - or worse create a toxic situation by benching him on the first year of a 48 mil deal. As long as the franchise has the goal of making the playoffs, then they have to maximize the players they have on the roster currently. As far as Kemba is concerned, that means having someone like Batum to help him.

I get what you are saying, you want him traded or benched, but we both know that's not going to happen this year. So either you fire Clifford and Cho and rebuild, or you put players together that make sense.

Last year nothing on the roster made sense. At least this year, you can see a little bit of a plan.

I'm no more of a Kemba fan than you are. We both know that.

I don't get why Kemba to the bench is a notion that seems unfathomable, or there's an assumption it wouldn't be the best option for Kemba personally. Or for that matter why coming off the bench is a personal affront. Being under a lengthy contract or sulking are not legitimate reasons to prevent a franchise from doing what's best.

If they still view him as a long-term solution that's one thing (I don't think they do but that's besides the point). But the last thing they should do is make current and future decisions based upon a regrettable contract or 1 player's reaction to organizational decisions.

Marvin, Cody, Lin, Frank, PJ, and Lamb all seem to be fine with this idea. Batum has spent a career morphing into what is asked of him. Not sure why Al and Kemba are exempt.

I think if you go back and dig up my posts about Kemba dating back to his rookie year you'll find that my stance on Kemba has always been that he'd be best as a 6th man. What I think should happen and what I think will happen though are different. Since I sincerely believe the franchise has no interest in turning Kemba into a 6th man, I am left with the option of discussing the way to make the best out of the situation, with Kemba as the starter and that includes pairing him with guys like Batum.

If you took contracts, team status, Cho, Clifford out of the equation and gave me this team, everyone starting from scratch, I'd probably start Lin, Lamb, Batum, Marvin and Zeller. Lin just fits what I like in a point guard more than Kemba.

That being said, I am not about to blame Kemba for us losing last night as mentioned before.

And Clifford isnt going to bring Kemba off the bench this year, so I don't want to spend a ton of energy talking about that hypothetical scenario.

[fatlever]

Sorry, "build around" is the wrong team. We don't have any players with building around. They signed Kemba to a long-term deal, though, so they have to at least try to put pieces together that make sense - same with MKG and Jefferson. You can't just ignore Kemba's flaws just because you don't think he's good enough to build around - stick your head in the sand and keep trying to force him to be something he is not - or worse create a toxic situation by benching him on the first year of a 48 mil deal. As long as the franchise has the goal of making the playoffs, then they have to maximize the players they have on the roster currently. As far as Kemba is concerned, that means having someone like Batum to help him.

I get what you are saying, you want him traded or benched, but we both know that's not going to happen this year. So either you fire Clifford and Cho and rebuild, or you put players together that make sense.

Last year nothing on the roster made sense. At least this year, you can see a little bit of a plan.

I'm no more of a Kemba fan than you are. We both know that.

I don't get why Kemba to the bench is a notion that seems unfathomable

It isn't, but no one else has proven that they should be the starter instead. You started from the assumption that Kemba should be benched because you are a Lin fan and obviously have an agenda. Why is the notion that he could be good enough as a starter or that he is currently our best option unfathomable to you?

BTW, Apples isn't a Lin fan, I believe he is a Frank fan. He signed up and was posting here before Lin signed. I don't think it is fair to label him as a biased Lin fan. That is not accurate.

[Mystical Apples]

Sorry, "build around" is the wrong team. We don't have any players with building around. They signed Kemba to a long-term deal, though, so they have to at least try to put pieces together that make sense - same with MKG and Jefferson. You can't just ignore Kemba's flaws just because you don't think he's good enough to build around - stick your head in the sand and keep trying to force him to be something he is not - or worse create a toxic situation by benching him on the first year of a 48 mil deal. As long as the franchise has the goal of making the playoffs, then they have to maximize the players they have on the roster currently. As far as Kemba is concerned, that means having someone like Batum to help him.

I get what you are saying, you want him traded or benched, but we both know that's not going to happen this year. So either you fire Clifford and Cho and rebuild, or you put players together that make sense.

Last year nothing on the roster made sense. At least this year, you can see a little bit of a plan.

I'm no more of a Kemba fan than you are. We both know that.

I don't get why Kemba to the bench is a notion that seems unfathomable

It isn't, but no one else has proven that they should be the starter instead. You started from the assumption that Kemba should be benched because you are a Lin fan and obviously have an agenda. Why is the notion that he could be good enough as a starter or that he is currently our best option unfathomable to you?

I think you misunderstood everything in my post. I was addressing the rationale of using a player's contract or potential reaction to an organizational decision as a legitimate reason to not make one. The other stuff is boring noise. For the record saying I'm a "Lin fan" is technically true just like I'm a "PJ fan" and "Cody fan" and "Hawes fan." I hope you understand the irony in citing an untrue fan bias while simultaneously going out of your way to regularly defend another.

What's of interest to me is why fans think the "best player" should start and why that should matter. Or why tired discussions about a team sport devolves into player x > player y (which is often miscalculated based upon scoring). What matters is lineup fit and player combinations in the context of modern offensive principals

Case in point: whether or not PJ is better than Cody is immaterial. Those were my points.

[Liver_Pooty]

everyone. lets cut down on the unnecessary Kemba hate, its getting a bit ridiculous

Lol you know things are getting out of hand when JDR tells you to stop.

[Mystical Apples]

I don't get why Kemba to the bench is a notion that seems unfathomable

It isn't, but no one else has proven that they should be the starter instead. You started from the assumption that Kemba should be benched because you are a Lin fan and obviously have an agenda. Why is the notion that he could be good enough as a starter or that he is currently our best option unfathomable to you?

BTW, Apples isn't a Lin fan, I believe he is a Frank fan. He signed up and was posting here before Lin signed. I don't think it is fair to label him as a biased Lin fan. That is not accurate.

You're right also Batum. Most accurate is to say I'm a fan of how NBA basketball is now played compared to the depth's of hell pit from which it emanated. I'm fond of players like Shane Battier who was grossly underrated because math hadn't yet captured his value. Tyson Chandler who is a black swan without comps. Dirk who's value is still misunderstood, etc...

[Braggins]

I don't get why Kemba to the bench is a notion that seems unfathomable

It isn't, but no one else has proven that they should be the starter instead. You started from the assumption that Kemba should be benched because you are a Lin fan and obviously have an agenda. Why is the notion that he could be good enough as a starter or that he is currently our best option unfathomable to you?

I think you misunderstood everything in my post. I was addressing the rationale of using a player's contract or potential reaction to an organizational decision as a legitimate reason to not make one. The other stuff is boring noise. For the record saying I'm a "Lin fan" is technically true just like I'm a "PJ fan" and "Cody fan" and "Hawes fan." I hope you understand the irony in citing an untrue fan bias while simultaneously going out of your way to regularly defend another.

What's of interest to me is why fans think the "best player" should start and why that should matter. Or why tired discussions about a team sport devolves into player x > player y (which is often miscalculated based upon scoring). What matters is lineup fit and player combinations in the context of modern offensive principals

Case in point: whether or not PJ is better than Cody is immaterial. Those were my points.

I assumed you were a Lin fan because you joined this off-season and have been saying LIn should be the starter from day one. My bad.

I don't think I misunderstood your post. I agree that the best player doesn't always have to start and I agree with your position on lineups and chemistry being more important than who is better between two players. I just think that you claiming that Lin should certainly be the starter from day one and not seeming to really acknowledging any other possibility as potentially the right one isn't any different than people who claim that Kemba should definitely be the starter no matter what. I don't think it is out of the question that Lin should be the starter, but I haven't really seen much evidence this year that it is the case. They've been very similar in terms of their production and I think they are similar enough players that I don't see a big advantage either way. I think they both play worse with Al and both play better with our floor spacing lineups. I don't really think it matters much who starts and I only see the contract situation as being relevant as a sort of tie-breaker. I honestly want Kemba to not have to play with Al just as much as I want him to start.

I don't think I am biased even though Kemba is my favorite player. I don't think any of my arguments regarding him are unrealistic and I'm defending him because I think he is being unfairly criticized. I go out of my way to defend MKG and others just as passionately when I think people unfairly criticize them, which has happened quite a bit. There has been plenty of fair criticism towards Kemba this season, but I don't think the complaints about last nights game are fair at all.

[gafun]

I'm a Lin fan. I'd do not expect Lin to start and get more minutes until he can prove his value and he wants to stay at Charlotte. But after 11 games, many Hornets fans know what Lin could help the team to win if the coach would let him play his style which is taking PG role (not starter) and attack rim with PnR plays like 2nd qt last night. More minutes dose not make him contribute much more like last night in final qt when he played as sq and no much chance to touch ball. I like Walker too because he is great fighter. It is up to coach (game manager!) to make proper rotations to utilize every player's skills. I bet tonight Hornets win big.


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