Signed By Indiana - The Jeremy Lamb Thread

[Joest2003]

Lamb is a good player. Last season was his first real season getting minutes not just 3 minutes of garbage time every 10 games. I'm not surprised he hit a wall.

Except he played more minutes per game and total minutes in his 2nd season in the league than he did last year. Its now his fourth season. Hard to accept the excuse that he hit the wall because he wasn't used to getting minutes. He's had four years to get used to the grind of the league.

There's is no way in hell he played more total minutes his second year than last year. Regardless he still had a above average PER and is shooting 45% from the field. It's more of the fact we got Courtney Lee and all came back than something lamb did to be out out of the rotation. And like I said did people really expect him to guard wade? He will be fine. He's still one of the best wing players we got.

[yosemiteben]

There's is no way in hell he played more total minutes his second year than last year.

Do you think fat just made that up?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/lambje01.html

2013-14: 1538 MP
2015-16: 1227 MP

25% more minutes in 2013-14.

[fatlever]

LOL, you had to at least assume I took two minutes to check basketball-ref before I made the point about his minutes.

[Joest2003]

There's is no way in hell he played more total minutes his second year than last year.

Do you think fat just made that up?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/lambje01.html

2013-14: 1538 MP
2015-16: 1227 MP

25% more minutes in 2013-14.

I stand corrected. That was the year lamb and Reggie Jackson were neck to neck with PPG until like this year the thunder brought in a veteran towards end of the year (Derek fisher) regardless Lamb shot 45% this season after going through a terrible slump. I'm at work and can't check stats now but I'm pretty sure 45% is the highest fg% among guards on the hornets last season. He will be fine. I don't blame cliff for replacing him for C Lee towards then end of season and playoffs he just didn't have enough experience yet. Plus like I said before lamb stood no chance at guarding playoff mode wade. If we made it to second round I would imagine Lamb would have gotten minutes. Just look at the heat roster do we really think JR was gonna guard wade, Johnson, or Deng?

[Flip Murray]

I still think Jeremy Lamb will be a good player. Honestly, I don't know why though. Maybe its coming from a place of hope rather than rationality.

[Joest2003]

Lamb has better fg% and PER than Lin and Batum for what it's worth. You may not take much from that but you can't just Ignore the fact.

[yosemiteben]

Lamb has better fg% and PER than Lin and Batum for what it's worth. You may not take much from that but you can't just Ignore the fact.

I think it's highly unlikely than anyone posting in here is not aware of this.

[Joest2003]

Lamb has better fg% and PER than Lin and Batum for what it's worth. You may not take much from that but you can't just Ignore the fact.

I think it's highly unlikely than anyone posting in here is not aware of this.

I wasn't until I looked it up. I thought Batum would have a higher PER to be honest. Not so much Lin because he shoots low fg% and is really streaky. Lamb just needs to put on like 15-20 pounds and he will be a better all around player. Needs more weight to break through those screens. His offense is already there but needs to get his 3 point % up for sure.

[yosemiteben]

Yeah I think you and catch have done a decent job of pointing out that, on paper, Lamb's stats really aren't bad other than his very poor 3PT%.

[Flip Murray]

I think most of us agree that we're paying Lamb too much for a tenth-man role. So would you guys rather see us get rid of him or expand his role? That's the pertinent question.

I'm on the side of expanding his role, especially if we lose Lee this offseason. Cliff's an old-school guy, and I think it just takes time to build his trust.

[fatlever]

My concern with Lamb is that he's OK in a bunch of areas of the game, but not really above average in any of them. If you are above average in many areas you can get away with not having an area of specialty, but Lamb is not above average in any areas of the game. The best thing you can say about Lamb is that he is fairly efficient as a shooter/scorer. You'd like for your bench players to be able to come in and make an immediate impact in at least one area of the game - 3pt shooting, defense, rebounding, shot blocking, passing, ball handling etc. Lamb is an OK 3pt shooter, but not good enough to fill a role as a floor spacer. He is an OK defender, but not someone who can fill the role of a defensive stopper. He is an OK passer and ball handler, but not someone you would trust to run your offense through. He doesn't fill the role as a slasher who attacks the rim and gets to the FT line. And he's not quite a good enough scorer to fill the role as a microwave 6th man. Troy Daniels had passed Lamb towards the end of the year because he at least had a specific role as a 3pt shooter/floor spacer.

He reminds me a little bit of a better version of a former Bobcat named Derrick Brown. Brown, like Lamb, wasn't good enough to be a starter (except on the horrible 7-win Bobcats) and never found a role as a bench player because he was just OK at everything. I always said when Brown was in Charlotte that he needed to find his niche. What is Lamb's niche? He is not good enough to be a starter, so what role is he going to fill off the bench for the next 3 years? He has to find a role. Coaches aren't dying to play guys off the bench that have no role and are just OK at everything.

At least, that's how I see it.

Lamb needs to improve his 3pt shot or his ball handling/passing or his defense or grow some balls and start attacking the rim or else I suspect he'll just float around the league, in and out of lineups for the next 3 years.

[Joest2003]

My concern with Lamb is that he's OK in a bunch of areas of the game, but not really above average in any of them. If you are above average in many areas you can get away with not having an area of specialty, but Lamb is not above average in any areas of the game. The best thing you can say about Lamb is that he is fairly efficient as a shooter/scorer. You'd like for your bench players to be able to come in and make an immediate impact in at least one area of the game - 3pt shooting, defense, rebounding, shot blocking, passing, ball handling etc. Lamb is an OK 3pt shooter, but not good enough to fill a role as a floor spacer. He is an OK defender, but not someone who can fill the role of a defensive stopper. He is an OK passer and ball handler, but not someone you would trust to run your offense through. He doesn't fill the role as a slasher who attacks the rim and gets to the FT line. And he's not quite a good enough scorer to fill the role as a microwave 6th man. Troy Daniels had passed Lamb towards the end of the year because he at least had a specific role as a 3pt shooter/floor spacer.

He reminds me a little bit of a better version of a former Bobcat named Derrick Brown. Brown, like Lamb, wasn't good enough to be a starter (except on the horrible 7-win Bobcats) and never found a role as a bench player because he was just OK at everything. I always said when Brown was in Charlotte that he needed to find his niche. What is Lamb's niche? He is not good enough to be a starter, so what role is he going to fill off the bench for the next 3 years? He has to find a role. Coaches aren't dying to play guys off the bench that have no role and are just OK at everything.

At least, that's how I see it.

Lamb needs to improve his 3pt shot or his ball handling/passing or his defense or grow some balls and start attacking the rim or else I suspect he'll just float around the league, in and out of lineups for the next 3 years.

I have to disagree. I think he's above average at mid range and drives off the glass. He is a professional scorer and that has value in this league. When he comes in the game you know hes going to score the ball unlike Daniels where if he doesn't get a spot up open 3 he ain't going to score. And rebounding. Lamb is deff above average at his position at rebounding.

[Flip Murray]

The next two months of us talking in circular hypotheticals about every player has me pretty depressed. Half the team are free agents. You can't really talk about a player's role without knowing who will come back. I'll be a much happier person once actual dominos start to fall. Maybe i'll do some draft scouting

[yosemiteben]

Lamb last season was kind of the anti-3&D player. Look at the splits of his stats from last season - he did not have any month where his 3PT% was at or above 34%. He shot just 31% on C&S threes, which was second only to Zeller as worst on the team among guys in the rotation. Compare that to Daniels, who shot a scorching 53% on C&S 3's. It's a real waste of the unusually high willingness to pass on our team for a player to not be effective in C&S situations. Lamb is at his best in one on one situations, where he can work his midrange game or go to work with his floater, but that's not really how our offense is supposed to run.

On the flip side, you can't stick Lamb on a shooter and trust that Lamb will stay locked in and fight through screens to shut him down. When he's engaged he contests well, but it's just way too common for him to get burned on mental mistakes.

I feel pretty OK with letting Lee go and rolling with Lamb, but I think we need to sign another cheaper 3&D guy, emphasis on the D, if we go that route.

[JDR720]

My concern with Lamb is that he's OK in a bunch of areas of the game, but not really above average in any of them. If you are above average in many areas you can get away with not having an area of specialty, but Lamb is not above average in any areas of the game. The best thing you can say about Lamb is that he is fairly efficient as a shooter/scorer. You'd like for your bench players to be able to come in and make an immediate impact in at least one area of the game - 3pt shooting, defense, rebounding, shot blocking, passing, ball handling etc. Lamb is an OK 3pt shooter, but not good enough to fill a role as a floor spacer. He is an OK defender, but not someone who can fill the role of a defensive stopper. He is an OK passer and ball handler, but not someone you would trust to run your offense through. He doesn't fill the role as a slasher who attacks the rim and gets to the FT line. And he's not quite a good enough scorer to fill the role as a microwave 6th man. Troy Daniels had passed Lamb towards the end of the year because he at least had a specific role as a 3pt shooter/floor spacer.

He reminds me a little bit of a better version of a former Bobcat named Derrick Brown. Brown, like Lamb, wasn't good enough to be a starter (except on the horrible 7-win Bobcats) and never found a role as a bench player because he was just OK at everything. I always said when Brown was in Charlotte that he needed to find his niche. What is Lamb's niche? He is not good enough to be a starter, so what role is he going to fill off the bench for the next 3 years? He has to find a role. Coaches aren't dying to play guys off the bench that have no role and are just OK at everything.

At least, that's how I see it.

Lamb needs to improve his 3pt shot or his ball handling/passing or his defense or grow some balls and start attacking the rim or else I suspect he'll just float around the league, in and out of lineups for the next 3 years.

is it better to be very good at something but bad at everything else (Daniels/3pt shooting) or ok at everything (Lamb) as a bench player? i think you need both to have a good bench, if you just have specialists the bench will have too many holes with each player just having one skill. if you have a bunch of ok all-around players on the bench, then they wont have "big game potential" like the specialists could have (like a 3pt shooter specialist getting hot and scoring 25 from nowhere or a rebounding specialist having 15 boards in 15mins etc.).

i would probably say a good rotation bench needs (just the guys that play, not the end of bench bums)

-a designated 6th man (a starting caliber player who plays on the bench, this player should be a scorer)
-2 all-around players (preferably a big and a wing/guard)
-2 specialists (who are at least passable at their non-specialist skills)

PG- 6th man
SG- all-around
SF- 3pt specialist
PF-all-around
C- defense/rebounding specialist

[PG13]

Lamb needs to put on 15-20 lbs between the ears.

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

The minimum team salary for 2016 will be around $82.8 million. Right now, the Sixers are at $26.8 million. Also, most people expect Dario Saric to play for the Sixers this year.

Embiid 4.8
Okafor 4.8
Noel 4.4
Stauskas 3.0
Landry 6.8
Holmes 1.0
Covington 1.0
Grant 1.0
Saric XX?
#1 pick

Only Stauskas is a SG. The Sixers also have marginal team options on TJ McConnell, Kendall Marshall, and Hollis Thompson, and only Thompson is a SG.

I feel like a Lamb trade to the Sixers has potential.

Just want to point out that there is no real penalty for not making the minimum team salary. If a team fails to meet it then they just take the difference between the minimum and and what they actually paid salary wise and give that to the players currently under contract. It just becomes an end-year bonus to the guys playing there.

What that space does do is allow the Sixers to absorb bad contracts if another team feels like spending an asset to tempt them into doing so. In the Hornet's case you can make the argument that Lamb isn't too bad so they might be willing to accept a late first rounder ... or maybe even some cash + second rounders.

From the Sixers perspective this is a year when they are going to try to start getting better. My bet is that they aren't really going to want picks for this year. They are going to want impact guys, experienced vets willing to come off the bench, and such. They are probably hoping to use that cap space to absorb a bad contract and a good player, but may not be able to do that with all the other teams getting cap space.

[fatlever]

I have to disagree. I think he's above average at mid range and drives off the glass. He is a professional scorer and that has value in this league. When he comes in the game you know hes going to score the ball unlike Daniels where if he doesn't get a spot up open 3 he ain't going to score. And rebounding. Lamb is deff above average at his position at rebounding.

So, he is above average at one of the most inefficient shots in basketball - mid range jump shots, a shot that isn't what our offense is designed to produce - and he is a good rebounding shooting guard, which really isn't very important, especially for a team that lead the league in def rebounding %. When he moves over to small forward you lose any rebounding advantage he had at SG.

[fatlever]

is it better to be very good at something but bad at everything else (Daniels/3pt shooting) or ok at everything (Lamb) as a bench player? i think you need both to have a good bench, if you just have specialists the bench will have too many holes with each player just having one skill. if you have a bunch of ok all-around players on the bench, then they wont have "big game potential" like the specialists could have (like a 3pt shooter specialist getting hot and scoring 25 from nowhere or a rebounding specialist having 15 boards in 15mins etc.).

i would probably say a good rotation bench needs (just the guys that play, not the end of bench bums)

-a designated 6th man (a starting caliber player who plays on the bench, this player should be a scorer)
-2 all-around players (preferably a big and a wing/guard)
-2 specialists (who are at least passable at their non-specialist skills)

PG- 6th man
SG- all-around
SF- 3pt specialist
PF-all-around
C- defense/rebounding specialist

Our bench rotation at the end of the year was basically Lin, Batum, Jefferson and Frank. To compliment that lineup, would you rather have a defensive specialist who can lock up a wing on the other team (ala Winslow's role), a 3pt specialist, someone who is great in catch and shoot and will provide space for the other 4 players (Daniels) or someone like Lamb who has no real role in that unit. Lamb would be the 4th or 5th scoring option in that lineup, the 3rd or 4th person to initiate the offense and at best he's the 3rd best defender. I''d rather have a specialist playing with that group.

The question with Lamb is whether or not he can improve to become either a 6th man type of instant offense (Lin and Jefferson) or a ball handler/passer (Batum/Lin). If not, he's back to being a role player in that unit with no clear role.

[catch20two]

I still think Jeremy Lamb will be a good player. Honestly, I don't know why though. Maybe its coming from a place of hope rather than rationality.

He was a good player for us when he got consistent minutes. When he had his rough patch we just dismissed him from the lineup. Lin had about a 2 month stretch of disastrous play. Batum had at least a month or more of bad play. Those other guys got to play through their struggles while Lamb was banished. I mean it's Cliff's team so he can do what he want and feel comfortable with but Lamb was good for us when he got the minutes. The only place he hurt the team was his 31% 3pt shooting which he somewhat made up for by shooting high percentages inside of the arc.