LaMelephant: The LaMelo Ball Thread (#2)

[fatlever]

its happening... it was always a possibility after another hopeless season.

LaMelo Ball wants to be in a winning situation, per
@MikeAScotto


“I touched on this with some of the other guys, and some executives around the league are looking at it too. If you were willing to part with Mark Williams—who’s 23 and pretty good, though he has some injury concerns—the next logical thing would be to also look at LaMelo Ball. He’s on a max contract, and they’re not winning, obviously, for the foreseeable future. For LaMelo, he wants to win. This is now going to be his fifth season. How much longer does he see himself there? That’s what I’ve been told. And I’ll say this, Matt—at the end of the day, I also think not being an All-Star and not winning affected him. He had the numbers on paper, but Charlotte’s record hurt his chances. From what I’ve been told, he wants to win competitively.”

[fatlever]

Read on Twitter

not getting that all-star vote broke melo's spirit

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losing has an impact, agree on this. its a systemic rot thats hard to break

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agree again... this season is worst yet, feels hopeless after the mark disaster

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[JDR720]

The Locked on Hornets Podcast talked about this their previous episode (not the one today, the last one). I pretty much agree with their take, that report is more of a vibe check than an actual report.

It doesn't say anything of substance, just obvious things.

[yosemiteben]

its happening... it was always a possibility after another hopeless season.

LaMelo Ball wants to be in a winning situation, per
@MikeAScotto


“I touched on this with some of the other guys, and some executives around the league are looking at it too. If you were willing to part with Mark Williams—who’s 23 and pretty good, though he has some injury concerns—the next logical thing would be to also look at LaMelo Ball. He’s on a max contract, and they’re not winning, obviously, for the foreseeable future. For LaMelo, he wants to win. This is now going to be his fifth season. How much longer does he see himself there? That’s what I’ve been told. And I’ll say this, Matt—at the end of the day, I also think not being an All-Star and not winning affected him. He had the numbers on paper, but Charlotte’s record hurt his chances. From what I’ve been told, he wants to win competitively.”

Scotto knows nothing, doesn't mean anything to me.

[JDR720]

There are basically 3 paths forward.

- LaMelo stays long term.
- LaMelo gets tired of losing and asks for a trade.
- The team gets tired of him being injured and trades him.

[fatlever]

The Locked on Hornets Podcast talked about this their previous episode (not the one today, the last one). I pretty much agree with their take, that report is more of a vibe check than an actual report.

It doesn't say anything of substance, just obvious things.

It's very possible that he knows nothing. But it's also possible that there's starting to be some leaks from Melo's camp about his unhappiness with three straight disastrous seasons. But he definitely looks like a different player since the That Lakers game. This was always a slippery slope with such an extended obvious tanking season. You can't necessarily expect all the players to be on board with this direction. Everything just feels different after that failed mark Trade.

[fatlever]

I will also say that removing moose from the rotation at a time when you need guys to find that extra ounce of motivation has probably not been the best for this team. He was the one dude who went balls to the wall every minute he was on the floor.

[fatlever]

The Locked on Hornets Podcast talked about this their previous episode (not the one today, the last one). I pretty much agree with their take, that report is more of a vibe check than an actual report.

It doesn't say anything of substance, just obvious things.

And that section on the locked on podcast two days ago was a slightly different report. It was about other teams monitoring the availability of ball this summer. This report actually is slightly different in that it implies to have some direct knowledge from someone close to ball.

[KembaWalker]

i cant imagine why a nearly year 6 LaMelo Ball would want to be part of this team. id be more concerned if someone said he was happy to be on a team in the situation that this team is in. that pressure needs to be there on the FO to pick a lane and trade him or get him some help. last thing we need is another half measure two timeline build we're we trying to win with prime Melo and some 20 year old draft pick and then we're facing another massive rebuild right as the new guy hits prime like what happened with him and Rozier/Hayward. this team will never be good until they fully commit to one timeline and see it through all the way

[SWedd523]

its happening... it was always a possibility after another hopeless season.

LaMelo Ball wants to be in a winning situation, per
@MikeAScotto


“I touched on this with some of the other guys, and some executives around the league are looking at it too. If you were willing to part with Mark Williams—who’s 23 and pretty good, though he has some injury concerns—the next logical thing would be to also look at LaMelo Ball. He’s on a max contract, and they’re not winning, obviously, for the foreseeable future. For LaMelo, he wants to win. This is now going to be his fifth season. How much longer does he see himself there? That’s what I’ve been told. And I’ll say this, Matt—at the end of the day, I also think not being an All-Star and not winning affected him. He had the numbers on paper, but Charlotte’s record hurt his chances. From what I’ve been told, he wants to win competitively.”

Scotto knows nothing, doesn't mean anything to me.

This reeks of head-in-sand-ism

I'm not even remotely surprised that a guy soon to finish his 5th season with the worst team in the league, having been Debo'd out of an all-star spot largely because his team sucks, with the needle pointing down not up might conceivably be fed up with the BS platitudes.

This is a major concern that many, many folks around here and other places have had. Institutionalized rot, no tangible results, and just the nebulous "promise" of a long term plan and vision is a ridiculous ask of a star player already 5 years into his career.

I'll say it again: The new regime might be in Year 1 of some Lean Six Sigma "Long Term Plan", but Melo isn't.

Melo is finishing year 5 of a team continuing to get worse

Mark is finishing year 3, Miller year 2, Miles year 7.

Imagine you're Melo, fresh off a season sweep by the Wizards, and Peterson sits down with you and says ”hey man, stay tough, we're hoping to be competitive by the 8th year of your career”

I'm not surprised at all by any of them being fed up and phoning it in. This is exactly what you get for being a **** tier FO

[fatlever]

Off topic, but you triggered me with the lean six Sigma comment LOL. Lean six Sigma is everything wrong with corporate America today. I **** hate it. The constant obsession with the need and urgency to try to squeeze every single penny no matter the human cost. I say this as someone who is a lean 6 Sigma black belt. It's the dumbest **** in corporate America. The only thing dumber honestly is the amount of time wasted on tweaking PowerPoint presentations for senior leadership that's going to spend five seconds looking at it. /rant

[Rich4114]

Like it or not, this is what comes with organizational tanking. You walk a thin line with minimal margin of error, injury, etc. We already saw what LaMelo was capable of the first half of the season before we began unethical tanking with "injury management". Like, I get what they were doing and why, but there are two huge risk that come with that approach. 1) You tank but end up picking 5th or 6th anyway and 2) You turn your players off who work every day to improve, get better, win and then give them no chance to accomplish that

While LaMelo has a very... unique personality, I actually commend him to getting this far. In the last 12 months we've seen LaMelo:

Be held out the end of a lost season to protect his ankle
New owners, GM and head coach
Take the worst prospect in recent memory with the 6th overall pick in the NBA draft
Add Josh Green to a terrible roster
Play at an MVP level, carrying from like October through December
Watch the minimal amount of talent on this roster get injured for the season
Lose out on the All Star game due to injury management and his teams choice to tank
Play next to hilariously bad talent that can't hit open 3's from the corner or finish fast break opportunities
Get BOMBARDED by national media, the Hornets sorry ass fanbase, low budget podcast hosts, etc. for not winning more games despite the above
Be added to trade speculation, due to everything above in reality while blaming LaMelo
Get absolutely abused on the floor, double/triple teams on the perimeter with nobody to take any pressure off, no head coach calling for more fouls, no respect from the refs, etc.

This probably makes me sound like one of his stans (they are equally delusional just on the other end of the spectrum) but if an organization wanted to drive a good player out of their city, the blueprints are all laid out above.

[Rich4114]

Off topic, but you triggered me with the lean six Sigma comment LOL. Lean six Sigma is everything wrong with corporate America today. I **** hate it. The constant obsession with the need and urgency to try to squeeze every single penny no matter the human cost. I say this as someone who is a lean 6 Sigma black belt. It's the dumbest **** in corporate America. The only thing dumber honestly is the amount of time wasted on tweaking PowerPoint presentations for senior leadership that's going to spend five seconds looking at it. /rant

As someone living well inside of corporate America, I couldn't agree more

[EmpireFalls]

LaMelo’s body language could not be more transparent. He’s tired of watching 2 point deficits avalanche into 12 point deficits the second he sits down on the bench. He’s tired of getting beaten up and manhandled on the perimeter every game because we have no other shot creators. He’s tired of having to carry horrific lineups with Salaun, Jeffries, and other G League talent in it. He’s tired of getting disrespected by referees and getting no calls. He's tired of all the personal attacks in the media and called a losing player. He’s tired of having to take a day off every week because of “injury management”, killing his rhythm. Most of all, he’s tired of losing by 20, and yes, I think not making the All-Star game bothered him.

He’s getting blamed for the fact that the front office cannot identify talent and has put a horrific team around him. I’d be frustrated and checked out too.

[HornetJail]

LaMelo’s body language could not be more transparent. He’s tired of watching 2 point deficits avalanche into 12 point deficits the second he sits down on the bench. He’s tired of getting beaten up and manhandled on the perimeter every game because we have no other shot creators. He’s tired of having to carry horrific lineups with Salaun, Jeffries, and other G League talent in it. He’s tired of getting disrespected by referees and getting no calls. He's tired of all the personal attacks in the media and called a losing player. He’s tired of having to take a day off every week because of “injury management”, killing his rhythm. Most of all, he’s tired of losing by 20, and yes, I think not making the All-Star game bothered him.

He’s getting blamed for the fact that the front office cannot identify talent and has put a horrific team around him. I’d be frustrated and checked out too.

then shut it down for the season, i wouldn't blame him

[Rays Pompadour]

Off topic, but you triggered me with the lean six Sigma comment LOL. Lean six Sigma is everything wrong with corporate America today. I **** hate it. The constant obsession with the need and urgency to try to squeeze every single penny no matter the human cost. I say this as someone who is a lean 6 Sigma black belt. It's the dumbest **** in corporate America. The only thing dumber honestly is the amount of time wasted on tweaking PowerPoint presentations for senior leadership that's going to spend five seconds looking at it. /rant

As someone living well inside of corporate America, I couldn't agree more

The problem with six Sigma is that people think it's a philosophy, which it isn't. The Japanese have a better model, and it IS a philosophy. ISO is another crap storm. Just codifies making junk the same way each time. Anyway...

I feel no empathy for LaMelo Ball. He's a glory hound who's been babied his whole life. Massive talent. And the Hornets were right in giving him the extension. But he is a disgrace defensively and not a leader. I expect more from a franchise player.

And boo hoo for not making the All Star team. He's part of the losing mentality of this moribund franchise. When was the last time Melo got a technical for standing up for himself? Has it been reported that he dressed down a teammate at halftime for poor play? I can't remember the league office issuing a fine for Ball's complaints. A team needs its best player to lead and LaMelo has failed that role so far in his career.

The 2025 draft will give Charlotte a fifth foundational piece, presuming Mark Williams remains. The tank, in my opinion, will end, and the effort to develop a sustained winner will begin. Hopefully, Ball sees this, too, and will want to be a part of the bright future in Charlotte. If not, well, I won't shed a single tear after he becomes a Clipper.

[KembaWalker]

i dont think LaMelo was ever gonna be some alpha leader + heliocentric offensive engine + defensive stopper, 1st option franchise carrying single-handedly winning player. i have no idea what player even checks all those boxes except like, prime LeBron James?

ok, he's not LeBron James. he needs some help, some two way players, some creation help, some just plain talent. a coach that can put him and his teammates in a position to succeed

this teams sucked ass almost as long as the guy has been alive, and will continue to suck for a long time when they trade him so im definitely not gonna say its his fault or blame him for giving up.

[fatlever]

You just can't miss on as many draft picks as we have missed on in the history of this franchise, as a place that seemingly never has cap space nor is a destination. The utter lack of talent from top to bottom on this roster can be easily traced back to a decade of poor draft decisions. We have been so horrendously bad in that area for so long that it's just crippled this franchise.

[Bassman]

Troubled times my friends. Once this stuff starts it can become an insurmountable tide, each wave building on the other.

Melo is hearing it from those around him. Remember how his dad was giving these “clues” before the trade deadline saying “hold on, help is coming”, and strongly hinting at a brothers reunion? Well, that didn’t happen. Then the All-Star snub, which clearly got to him, along with the Mark trade boomerang.

Whatever…I like Melo and will be glad to see him continue as part of our suture. Or, I would be OK with a blockbuster trade giving us really good return on Good NBA talent, some young and one vet to help us build with. That plus Flagg or Harper. At some level the fan base may just need to get a resolution….either a Melo who gets really healthy and consistently deadly, or a swap of him for some quality players to augment the next version this fall.

[EmpireFalls]

i dont think LaMelo was ever gonna be some alpha leader + heliocentric offensive engine + defensive stopper, 1st option franchise carrying single-handedly winning player. i have no idea what player even checks all those boxes except like, prime LeBron James?

Cooper Flagg, hopefully, that’s our one last Hail Mary