Get rid of Whack Jack

[floppymoose]

I come in peace. I know that this message coming from a GS fan will sound like a "we won that trade" or "nyah nyah nyah" but that's not how I mean it.

I'm seeing in the "blow it up" and "accountability for turnovers" threads (not to mention the "fined 50k" thread) that you guys are figuring out Jackson's shortcomings.

The blowup is coming. And I'm not talking about the team, I'm talking about Jackson. Get rid of him now if you get any chance. If you get the opportunity to trade him for a scrub, do it. Just get him the hell out of there and away from your team.

[Battery]

Nah they're just using Jax as the scapegoat because DJ sucks balls and can't run an offense. So the ball has been in Jax's hands more than anyone would like. Once Livingston takes over the starting point guard job soon, Jax will look good like last season.

[BigSlam]

I think you are right floppymoose. It's a real pity because he really did have such a positive impact for us last year but if the first 6 games of this season are any indication of what we are install for then I think the writing is on the wall.

Problem is we are so thin at the 2 spot that hanging onto him might be the lesser of the two evils. Plus, he could easily turn it around and start playing good ball again. Maybe he just has to find his groove.

The biggest problem is that he is not the sort of player who can carry a team. He has way too many flaws. He'd be a great #2 or #3 man - but we rely on him carrying the team.

We rely on him too heavily and he can't deliver.

[Jaruff]

I think you are right floppymoose. It's a real pity because he really did have such a positive impact for us last year but if the first 6 games of this season are any indication of what we are install for then I think the writing is on the wall.

Problem is we are so thin at the 2 spot that hanging onto him might be the lesser of the two evils. Plus, he could easily turn it around and start playing good ball again. Maybe he just has to find his groove.

The biggest problem is that he is not the sort of player who can carry a team. He has way too many flaws. He'd be a great #2 or #3 man - but we rely on him carrying the team.

We rely on him too heavily and he can't deliver.

If we continue to lose, I could see him being dealt. Perhaps a team like New York or New Jersey would take him to convince Melo to sign or accept a trade?

[floppymoose]

I think you are right floppymoose. It's a real pity because he really did have such a positive impact for us last year but if the first 6 games of this season are any indication of what we are install for then I think the writing is on the wall.

Problem is we are so thin at the 2 spot that hanging onto him might be the lesser of the two evils. Plus, he could easily turn it around and start playing good ball again. Maybe he just has to find his groove.

The biggest problem is that he is not the sort of player who can carry a team. He has way too many flaws. He'd be a great #2 or #3 man - but we rely on him carrying the team.

We rely on him too heavily and he can't deliver.

This is the same thing we went through at GS. I was a big defender of SJax and just about the last guy to join the "ship him out" wagon. He can absolutely help you. He already proved it. That's what makes it hard to see what is coming and hard to let go of him without getting something back. But if this plays out the way it has before, you will be better off shipping him out right now.

[Eoghan]

Jax looks gimpy to me. I don't know, he could just be defeated.

[ohara]

All I know is that when I am following the game on-line, I dread seeing the words come up "Turnover Stephen Jackson". But they always seem to come up too often and at very inopportune times. He may hit a few clutch shots for Charlotte, but when you are shooting 5/16 and have 6 TO's, it seems rather meaningless. And if the first few games are any indication, those are the kind of stat lines we are going to be seeing.

Now that I said this, maybe he goes off tonight and shoots 12/16 with 0 TO's and we win!

[BigSlam]

Last season in Toronto was one of our worst games for unforced turn overs for the season - and Jax was especially bad.

Hope there isn't a repeat of that tonight or I might just rush the court!

[fatlever]

Nah they're just using Jax as the scapegoat because DJ sucks balls and can't run an offense. So the ball has been in Jax's hands more than anyone would like. Once Livingston takes over the starting point guard job soon, Jax will look good like last season.

i find it a little hypocritical that you dismiss jax's poor play so easily while you continue to blame dj for every problem so far.

you talk about dj not being aggressive, yet jax will hold the ball, stop all ball movement, make the unnecessary extra pass. he is the one that needs to stay aggressive and look to score.

you talk about wanting dj to be consistent, yet jax is one of the most inconsistent players i have ever watched in my life. he will go from terrible to awesome back to terrible during a quarter. we have been making jokes about good jack and bad jack since the middle of last year. he will make two 3s, airball the 3rd and then make the 4th. jax is the epitome of inconsistent.

you talk about dj's defense, yet jax has been a step slow guarding his man all season.

you talk about how players should come to camp in shape and get on dj for coming to camp out of shape last year. LB asked jax to lose 10 lbs this offseason to get more speed and jax showed up to camp 5 lbs heavier. he was also one of the last players to show up for the september games at the practice court.

jax is averaging 3.9 turnovers so far this season. sadly at least 3 of those per game are completely unforced and the result of careless, dumb or lazy basketball. not the result of him being super aggressive. we also play at a snails pace. imagine how many more he would have if we actually played at a normal pace. of the players in the league who have more turnovers than jax all but two of them are top tier pgs who are averaging over 8 assists per game and have the ball in their hands 90% of the time (rondo, rose, deron, wall, lebron and nash) almsost all of those guys have a 2:1 assist to turnover ratio. the other two players on the list are durant (27ppg) and amare. if jax was durant i think we could live with the turnovers. but im sure even durant would tell you he is disgusted by his sloppy play so far. everyone on the list above jax is averaging more minutes than him except nash. i understand that our offense sucks and we ask crash and jax to try to make something out of nothing a lot of times. i can live with some of those turnovers that are a result. but so many of jax's turnovers have absolutely nothing to do with that scenario. so much of it is simply dumb mistakes. when you are a bad offensive team that plays at the slowest pace you cannot afford to make dumb mistakes that lead to fast breaks for the over team. its suicide.

now i'm not going to pretend that everything is jax's fault. wallace hasnt been his usual early year slow starting self. dj has been inconsistent (for the record, i have never been a big dj fan, so its not like i have some loyalty to him) nazr has had some terrible games. and boris has also had his fair share of moments. but, jax, imo, has been reason #1 so far of why we are playing poorly.

[Elwren]

Ship Jax out.

I honestly would rather have Gerald Henderson start at the 2 than watching another Jax turnover

[el-mago]

Really, the only ones who are somewhat disappointed regarding Jax's play this season are those who overvalued him big time in the first place.
He came here last year and i always knew what we were getting. This is the same Jax who did punch a guy in the stands in the middle of a game, and the same annoying chucker from Indy and Oakland. He can be an amazing lieutenant, #3 guy on a team but as a franchise leader and go-to guy he sucks balls.
agree with the OP, ship him out now while he still has some value (although he's already close to untradable) bc i have a bad feeling as well about him remaining with the team.
It will only get worse and worse from here.

[Fred Williamson]

yep, I never liked him and I also knew what we were getting. It was not a surprise that it worked out so well with him last year, because any shooting guard who can score 20ppg could have the same impact on this team like Jax has. This team just needs someone who can put the ball in the hole and draw double teams. Jax has this skill but everything else sucks. His defense is overrated and as we all know, he commits too many turnovers. Moreover, I believe he's definitely going to start bitching if this team continues to suck, just like he did in Golden State. Regardless of whether he has an HoF coach or a guy like Vinny del Negro sitting on the bench. Just remember, Don Nelson is a HoF coach and we all know how it ended.

That said, I always have been on the "ship his ass out while his value is high" bandwagon. So do it now, please.

[Battery]

Nah they're just using Jax as the scapegoat because DJ sucks balls and can't run an offense. So the ball has been in Jax's hands more than anyone would like. Once Livingston takes over the starting point guard job soon, Jax will look good like last season.

i find it a little hypocritical that you dismiss jax's poor play so easily while you continue to blame dj for every problem so far.

you talk about dj not being aggressive, yet jax will hold the ball, stop all ball movement, make the unnecessary extra pass. he is the one that needs to stay aggressive and look to score.

you talk about wanting dj to be consistent, yet jax is one of the most inconsistent players i have ever watched in my life. he will go from terrible to awesome back to terrible during a quarter. we have been making jokes about good jack and bad jack since the middle of last year. he will make two 3s, airball the 3rd and then make the 4th. jax is the epitome of inconsistent.

you talk about dj's defense, yet jax has been a step slow guarding his man all season.

you talk about how players should come to camp in shape and get on dj for coming to camp out of shape last year. LB asked jax to lose 10 lbs this offseason to get more speed and jax showed up to camp 5 lbs heavier. he was also one of the last players to show up for the september games at the practice court.

jax is averaging 3.9 turnovers so far this season. sadly at least 3 of those per game are completely unforced and the result of careless, dumb or lazy basketball. not the result of him being super aggressive. we also play at a snails pace. imagine how many more he would have if we actually played at a normal pace. of the players in the league who have more turnovers than jax all but two of them are top tier pgs who are averaging over 8 assists per game and have the ball in their hands 90% of the time (rondo, rose, deron, wall, lebron and nash) almsost all of those guys have a 2:1 assist to turnover ratio. the other two players on the list are durant (27ppg) and amare. if jax was durant i think we could live with the turnovers. but im sure even durant would tell you he is disgusted by his sloppy play so far. everyone on the list above jax is averaging more minutes than him except nash. i understand that our offense sucks and we ask crash and jax to try to make something out of nothing a lot of times. i can live with some of those turnovers that are a result. but so many of jax's turnovers have absolutely nothing to do with that scenario. so much of it is simply dumb mistakes. when you are a bad offensive team that plays at the slowest pace you cannot afford to make dumb mistakes that lead to fast breaks for the over team. its suicide.

now i'm not going to pretend that everything is jax's fault. wallace hasnt been his usual early year slow starting self. dj has been inconsistent (for the record, i have never been a big dj fan, so its not like i have some loyalty to him) nazr has had some terrible games. and boris has also had his fair share of moments. but, jax, imo, has been reason #1 so far of why we are playing poorly.

I wrote up a bigger response but I will just leave it at this for now.

I'm not going to sit here and say Jax has been good because he hasn't and shares a lot of the blame for our poor start. However, I look at it this way, we have basically the same cast of characters as last year and the only major change is DJ in the starting lineup.

Start Livingston and we'll start attacking the rim more and it will create easier shots for all.

[Marvel]

I look at it this way, we have basically the same cast of characters as last year

[thruthefire]

So apparently New Orleans tried to get Iggy. Jax could be a nice consolation prize...

[Jaruff]

So apparently New Orleans tried to get Iggy. Jax could be a nice consolation prize...

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachi ... Id=35jrsha

I wouldn't mind this. Trade Jax and Nazr (making salaries work, they aren't taking Diop) and grab a huge expiring and a young SG in return. He would be expendable with Jax, Willie Green, and Marco B on NO's roster.

[fatlever]

However, I look at it this way, we have basically the same cast of characters as last year and the only major change is DJ in the starting lineup.

frankencenter 2009 >>> frankencenter 2010

i do think that has been underestimated in terms of the impact on our team defense.

[Battery]

However, I look at it this way, we have basically the same cast of characters as last year and the only major change is DJ in the starting lineup.

frankencenter 2009 >>> frankencenter 2010

i do think that has been underestimated in terms of the impact on our team defense.

Well Chandler was gimpy for most of the year, especially during the first 2 months and we didn't get Ratliff until later in the season so "Frankencenter" wasn't a factor early on. But I agree, our defense in the post has been awful at times with this crew. Also Diaw gives away so many rebounds because he can't jump. ugh

[SJAXnCRASH]

Jackson has been great off the court. He's not gonna pull a Warriors whine and and demand trade. He's not gonna trash MJ. I wouldn't mind moving him for a young piece though if we don't get back to at least .500 ball soon

[Fred Williamson]

Just trade him for expirings