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lineup changes?
Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 9:34 pm
by fatlever
does anything think we will see a starting lineup change soon?
some quotes from the last game
"It starts with playing hard,'' Brown said. "You (have to) beg people to play hard and do the right thing? That's not coaching.''
"This is the culmination of what's been happening – this is the finale,'' Brown said. "If you play soft, if you don't execute, if you don't play hard, you're going to get embarrassed.''
Asked if any player was living up to expectation, Brown replied, "Maybe Boris (Diaw). I don't see guys setting an example, doing the things we need.''
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2010/1 ... ltics.htmlCoach Larry Brown suggested for the first time that his players aren’t listening to him. That’s a big deal. It was telling that owner Michael Jordan interceded after the game, addressing the team. I hear it got really loud in there.
http://blogs.charlotte.com/inside_the_n ... hts-1.html"What I heard Michael say is basically what we've been talking about, but obviously when he says something we all should listen," Brown said. "I'm to a point now that I'm going to play the guys that do it because the results would probably be the same. I've got to start playing the guys that do what we ask."
"Our second team kicks our first team in practice," Brown said. "What does that tell you?"
^^^ ive never heard that one before
http://www.startribune.com/sports/wolves/111794514.htmlthere was also the quote where LB talked about players trying to play for stats and all-star games, but i cant find that quote right now...
anyway, the point is, we are 8-15 with an owner and coach who are seemingly fed up with the status quo.
what changes, if any, do you think we will see this week? i would have said livingston in for dj before i read LBs quotes about livingston playing at "ymca" speed. obviously he is still happy with diaw so i cant see him getting benched. maybe we move diaw to center and start tyrus at pf and send nazr to the bench? does LB really have the balls to bench wallace or jackson? i doubt it.
Re: lineup changes?
Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 9:45 pm
by Tupik
Send DJ down to D-League.
Seriously though, I think we'll see some changes, hopefully he does have the balls to bench Wallace and Jax to show an example, because they are the main source of our problems right now since they're not playing hard and as team captains they have to show the example - especially Wallace.
Re: lineup changes?
Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 10:07 pm
by Jaruff
Tupik wrote:Send DJ down to D-League.
Seriously though, I think we'll see some changes, hopefully he does have the balls to bench Wallace and Jax to show an example, because they are the main source of our problems right now since they're not playing hard and as team captains they have to show the example - especially Wallace.
Benching either of them would be detrimental to their trade value so it won't happen.
If there's going to be a lineup change, there's going to be a trade. LB loves Boris so there's no way that he's benched for Tyrus. I doubt Boris is even traded this year or even next year as long as LB remains coach.
Re: lineup changes?
Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 10:22 pm
by Marvel
THIS... will be interesting. Lineup changes - replacing 1-2 of our starters with our bench, isn't going to make this problem go away.
Michael Jordan spoke confidently in late October, insisting that despite key personnel losses in the offseason, his Charlotte Bobcats were a "better off team than we were last year" and should "at minimum, make the playoffs."
I thought MJ was delusional when he first said this and apparently i was right.
I will say, LB's criticism of Livs is right. He's much more effective when he pushes the tempo, but most of the time he prefers to play slow ball. The worst of our troubles are magnified when our 2nd unit resorts to a slowed down half court style game, especially considering none of them are good ball handlers, iso players or shooters, with the only exception being TT.
"Our second team kicks our first team in practice," Brown said. "What does that tell you?"
It tells me 2 things. One - our starters don't take the 2nd unit serious enough in practice....i don't blame them. Two - NOTHING.
LB won't bench Jax or Wallace.Worse case scenario he benches them for long stretches during games from now on. Leading up to the inevitability of a major trade in the next week or so. At this point i don't care what LB does because apparently players are tuning him out anyway. So if he's not part of the solution he's part of the problem.
Actually the only change i see happening to our starting lineup could be starting Kwame over Nazr.
Re: lineup changes?
Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 10:25 pm
by Tupik
Jaruff wrote:Benching either of them would be detrimental to their trade value so it won't happen.
I was actually going to add that we shouldn't change the lineup if they are to be traded, but my laziness took over once again.
Re: lineup changes?
Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 10:25 pm
by Battery
fatlever wrote:does anything think we will see a starting lineup change soon?
some quotes from the last game
"This is the culmination of what's been happening – this is the finale,'' Brown said. "If you play soft, if you don't execute, if you don't play hard, you're going to get embarrassed.''
I was laughing when I heard LB say this because Saturday night was definitely the grand finale of our suckiness.
"Our second team kicks our first team in practice," Brown said. "What does that tell you?"
^^^ ive never heard that one before
Interesting...first I've heard him say this. And I wouldn't shed a tear if we traded the entire first team and rolled the rest of the season with the "second team."
there was also the quote where LB talked about players trying to play for stats and all-star games, but i cant find that quote right now...
I think he was referring to Gerald. He said something to the effect of just because you think you're an all star doesn't mean you can come out and be selfish. This is when he was talking about trusting your teammates. He's probably referencing Gerald's lack of trust in DJ.
anyway, the point is, we are 8-15 with an owner and coach who are seemingly fed up with the status quo.
what changes, if any, do you think we will see this week? i would have said livingston in for dj before i read LBs quotes about livingston playing at "ymca" speed. obviously he is still happy with diaw so i cant see him getting benched. maybe we move diaw to center and start tyrus at pf and send nazr to the bench? does LB really have the balls to bench wallace or jackson? i doubt it.
He's right about Livingston, sometimes he looks good but you can clearly see that he's not able to go full speed. It's a shame really because you can see he really wants to be aggressive and take it strong to the rim but he just can't finish like he used to. But it could also be that he has to sit on the bench for a long time before getting into games and then he has to run the second team.
Re: lineup changes?
Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 10:56 pm
by fatlever
quarter way through the season and i still cant really get a good read on livingston as a player.
Re: lineup changes?
Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 11:00 pm
by Jaruff
fatlever wrote:quarter way through the season and i still cant really get a good read on livingston as a player.
Same. IMO, we would have been as well off with Crittenton at the veteran min. than paying Livingston a few million per year.
Re: lineup changes?
Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 11:16 pm
by fatlever
Jaruff wrote:fatlever wrote:quarter way through the season and i still cant really get a good read on livingston as a player.
Same. IMO, we would have been as well off with Crittenton at the veteran min. than paying Livingston a few million per year.
hmmm... i didnt really get to see javaris play with us. he offense seemed woeful at best.
thats that confuses me about livingston. he was always billed as a pass first, uptempo, magic like point guard, but thats not the part of his game that stands out so far. his pull up jumper has been really his main contribution to the team. he doesnt seem to rack up assists or create a lot of easy baskets. i dont know if that is a function of our pathetic offense or him playing with the 2nd team or what. he has played more like a small forward who can dribble and less like a pg than i was expecting.
Re: lineup changes?
Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 11:26 pm
by captaincrunk
fatlever wrote:thats that confuses me about livingston. he was always billed as a pass first, uptempo, magic like point guard, but thats not the part of his game that stands out so far. his pull up jumper has been really his main contribution to the team. he doesnt seem to rack up assists or create a lot of easy baskets. i dont know if that is a function of our pathetic offense or him playing with the 2nd team or what. he has played more like a small forward who can dribble and less like a pg than i was expecting.
He did sit out basketball for a while. Though with this much time you'd think he'd pick it up again.
Re: lineup changes?
Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 12:00 am
by BigSlam
fatlever wrote:quarter way through the season and i still cant really get a good read on livingston as a player.
I can.
If he was 6 inches shorter he would be trying to make a living in the D League.
The only thing that makes him appealing is his height because it gives him an advantage out rebounding much smaller points and shooting over them from 10ft in.
Outside of that, he is just very....................."blah".
He's a poor shooter, a poor defender and a very ordinary passer.
Re: lineup changes?
Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 2:54 am
by BigSlam
While insisting things need to change, Brown said he doesn't plan to disrupt the starting lineup or dramatically alter the playing rotation when the Bobcats host Toronto Tuesday night at 7 in Time Warner Cable Arena. It's the first of three games in four days for the Bobcats.
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2010/1 ... bcats.html
Re: lineup changes?
Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 11:13 am
by bobcats3wallace
I think Wallace is the main problem. Jackson's turnovers are a problem, but he has been the one guy on this team trying to be a leader and has been the one guy on this team producing. Wallace on the other hand has been down right bad to watch for most the season. Lately he has finally started to pick it up, but even then LB had problems with him. I think it's telling that Wallace has one of his best statistical games of the season and LB still comes otu and complains about Wallace's play. What annoys me most is how Wallace talks about how others need to hustle and play with energy when the BIGGEST problem, without a doubt, for me this season is the fact that Wallace is the one not doing that. Last year this team fed off of Wallace's energy and hard work, and it made everyone better. This year Wallace has just been plain lazy, and you can tell how it rubs off to the rest of the team. I would not be surprised at all to see Wallace see lesser minutes. But it would hurt his trade value. I think Wallace would be out o fthere in the next couple weeks. And I thinkt hese thoughts by LB on Wallace are proven by the fact MJ is now suddenly jumping into the Melo talks. During the summer he refused to give up Wallace, now he is involved in trying to get a 6 month rental in Melo? You would have to know Wallace is involved...Would not surprise me if LB was he reason for that. Wallace hs just fallen out of favor with LB and honestly me too. I was his biggets fan for many years, but this years Wallace is not anythin I have seen from him in the last 4 years. I cannot possibly cheer for him witht hese kind of efforts.
Re: lineup changes?
Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:34 pm
by BigSlam
I was told last month that Crash and LB got into it with each other at practice on two occasions.
Apparently it was pretty messy.
Re: lineup changes?
Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 2:57 pm
by Walt Cronkite
I mean, Boris at the 5 with tyrus starting? Sitting DJ or Nazr? Jax or crash as 6th man with McGuire starting? What changes can you really make when you have no depth?
Re: lineup changes?
Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 4:50 pm
by Battery
BigSlam wrote:I was told last month that Crash and LB got into it with each other at practice on two occasions.
Apparently it was pretty messy.
That would explain Larry Brown's all star comment after Saturdays game. I knew he was talking about Wallace, although next time he should just call his name out publicly. Embarrass him, make him feel like the fans felt in the arena surrounded by all of those Celtics fans. For 10 million dollars, Bobcats fans deserve much better.
Very sad it's come to this because you would never think Gerald would be the one to act up and not want to be coached. Maybe he just can't deal with the pressure of raised expectations? We saw his pitiful performance during all star weekend last season so it could just be he has issues when the spotlight shines on him? He didn't step up during the playoffs last year too. Makes you wonder how other gm's perceive him now.
Re: lineup changes?
Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 5:26 pm
by BigSlam
He got into it with Nazzy around the same time too (about a month ago). He also tore DJ a new one at practice after the Celts game in front of everyone saying some really vicious things.
He's really losing the team.
Re: lineup changes?
Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 5:40 pm
by Battery
BigSlam wrote:He got into it with Nazzy around the same time too (about a month ago). He also tore DJ a new one at practice after the Celts game in front of everyone saying some really vicious things.
He's really losing the team.
The hell with the team then. The Nazr incident was during a game so i saw that but these players do need to get ripped a new one. I'm sure MJ didn't hold back after the Celtics game, so no reason to think LB wouldn't tear into DJ for that pathetic performance. This isn't college, these players get paid MILLIONS of dollars to perform at a high level and when you're not giving 110% effort then the players need to look in the mirror.
I'm all for getting rid of LB just to change the style of play, however, if you think these players are suddenly going to magically perform to a playoff level then you've got another thing coming. These players are quitters who are laying down like dogs and looking to blame everyone else for their own pathetic play. Everyone has to go, including LB and Higgins who helped put this mess together. I'd say fire MJ too but thats not possible.
Re: lineup changes?
Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 5:46 pm
by captaincrunk
Battery wrote:Everyone has to go, including LB and Higgins who helped put this mess together. I'd say fire MJ too but thats not possible.
How many times do I have to tell you that you can't just go firing everyone without offering an alternative?
Re: lineup changes?
Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 5:49 pm
by fatlever
regardless of who's at fault, larry or the players or both, once a coach loses the players there is usually no coming back from that. i think lb has definitely lost wallace, nazr, carroll and dj, not sure about the others yet. really the only thing he can do is to start playing the players he trusts and hope for the best. but considering we have no depth, thats suicide. sadly, we all know that MJ wont fire LB, so we really have to wait for LB to quit, which probably wont happen until the summer.
i would love to see MJ bring in a new GM over the summer as well. i just dont have any faith in higgins.