Not sure if this Rich Cho/OKC way of rebuilding is the right

[dre4bobcats]

As a bobcats fan I'm rooting for us to be a winning team, but building a franchise with nothing but young talent has more room for doom than success. I hear that OKC is the best model to form when trying to build a championship team in a small market. I'm not sure about that.

First of all, you have to ask yourself, was the Thunder draft history good or lucky?

1)Kevin Durant. As the 5th worst team, they had a 9 percent chance of landing the 2nd pick. Plus the Blazers took Greg Oden #1. Oden/Durant were the obvious top 2 choices in the draft. Thunder got the best player. (((Lucky)))
2)Russell Westbrook. Cant say anything bad about this choice. At the time I thought it was a huge reach. NO one had him going that high. ((Good))
3)Serge Ibaka. at 24!!!another good pick, they did their homework ((Good))
4)James Harden. Clearly the 2nd or 3rd best player in the draft with Blake Griffin and Tyreke Evans, The Grizzlies take Thabeet with the 2nd pick.. The choice of harden/evans falls into their lap.. ((Lucky))
They also had some misses as well in the draft if you were to look them up.

Second, you have to wait for them as they develop.
It took 5 years to build this team, no championships. Harden and Ibaka could leave for a big payday somewhere else. If they dont replace them they could go back to being a 2nd round team. Old Veteran players could come in and fill those spots at a cheaper price, but the good big market teams are always going to have their shot at those players first (especially warm weather places such as LA, Miami etc)..

The downside to this is building a team with young players who dont pan out or players not good enough to change your franchise's fortunes.. Its more likely that the Charlotte Bobcats are more like Sacramento, Minnesota, Toronto and Golden State than becoming the next OKC.

[Badd_Intentions]

My thing is how else are we supposed to build?? It's not like we are a major market team that can just sit back, get some cap space, then sign all of these marquee free agents a la New York, Miami, LA. So as a smaller market team, how are we to build?? We have no choice but to build thru the draft and then once we get a few core players, look to spend big on a free agent.

[doc.end]

Dumb picks by teams ahead you in a draft are part of the draft game. That's not luck, stupid move here and there is a given. In addition you can still try to trade up if that doesn't happen (Aldridge/Thomas swap, Love/Mayo swap). Also hindsight is 20//20.

[4WhomRajaTolls]

(Waits for explanation of the right way to rebuild... especially for one that turns team into championship contender in less than 5 years)

[Kembastockton]

dre4bobcats, there is no sure way to build a franchise. There is always going to be a certain amount of luck envolved. Great college players bust often in the nba. Good nba players bolt their teams for other cities. The most reliable way to build is drafting the best young players, and hoping they fall in love with your franchise. Then you trade for the peices you need, and sign free agents where you can. Then you pray that everything works out. But if you are looking for a magic wand that is going to make an average city in the bible belt an elite nba team you are going to be hard pressed to find one.

[MPM]

dre4bobcats, there is no sure way to build a franchise. There is always going to be a certain amount of luck envolved. Great college players bust often in the nba. Good nba players bolt their teams for other cities. The most reliable way to build is drafting the best young players, and hoping they fall in love with your franchise. Then you trade for the peices you need, and sign free agents where you can. Then you pray that everything works out. But if you are looking for a magic wand that is going to make an average city in the bible belt an elite nba team you are going to be hard pressed to find one.

[Eoghan]

(Waits for explanation of the right way to rebuild... especially for one that turns team into championship contender in less than 5 years)

[JMAC3]

I was thinking we may end up looking more like a prime Spurs when this is over.... Hear me out

Kemba- Tony Parker
Hendo- ?
MKG- Bruce Bowen with offense
Biz- David Robinson defensively
Zeller- Tim Duncan

Harden(free agent signing)- Ginobili
Jeffrey Taylor- young Stephen Jackson
Tyrus Thomas- ?

Not Perfect, but not horrible

[SWedd523]

I would prefer us to look like a better version of the Bobcats than some knockoff of another team.

[HornetJail]

I was thinking we may end up looking more like a prime Spurs when this is over.... Hear me out

Kemba- Tony Parker
Hendo- ?
MKG- Bruce Bowen with offense
Biz- David Robinson defensively
Zeller- Tim Duncan

Harden(free agent signing)- Ginobili
Jeffrey Taylor- young Stephen Jackson
Tyrus Thomas- ?

Not Perfect, but not horrible

The way free agency is going, by the time all these guys are near their primes, they will all have new contracts, and their contracts will be huge. Biz might get near-max offers simply because he's a big. Kemba and Hendo will receive Jeff Green-like contracts, Harden will be a max deal, MKG will probably command near max, and Zeller would be next. In four years, we would probably have $60M-$70M in salary wrapped up in SIX GUYS NOT INCLUDING TYRUS THOMAS. We would probably have to pay the other nine guys the minimum wage to avoid luxury tax hell.

Not to mention that Kemba won't ever be Tony Parker, Biz won't ever come close to David Robinson, Zeller won't be half of a prime Duncan, and we are lucky if JT becomes a young Jax.

[dre4bobcats]

dre4bobcats, there is no sure way to build a franchise. There is always going to be a certain amount of luck envolved. Great college players bust often in the nba. Good nba players bolt their teams for other cities. The most reliable way to build is drafting the best young players, and hoping they fall in love with your franchise. Then you trade for the peices you need, and sign free agents where you can. Then you pray that everything works out. But if you are looking for a magic wand that is going to make an average city in the bible belt an elite nba team you are going to be hard pressed to find one.

Using your words:
"Great college players bust often": exactly!!! thats why rebuilding in the draft is hit/miss..

"Drafting the best young players": does not work because they will lose to the teams with their best players in their prime and even lose to the best of the older teams.. OKC losing to Miami is a prime example.

"Hope they fall in love with your franchise": Players fall in love with winning first and foremost. I"m not sure if any star player that you land in the draft would want to stick long term with a team with question marks. especially if they been in a situation where they are on losing teams for the first 4-5 years of their career. (notice Kevin Love has recently voiced his displeasure with minnesota).

Its hard to build an elite team...but I would rather be in a 2nd round treadmill trying to be elite, than waiting for young talent for 5 years to hopefully make the playoffs. With 5 years of losing we could become the Kansas City Bobcats, or Las Vegas Bobcats... Charlotte Hornets pt 2.

[dre4bobcats]

^^^And then trading for pieces you need would involve getting rid of one of your young building blocks

[Eoghan]

Its hard to build an elite team...but I would rather be in a 2nd round treadmill trying to be elite, than waiting for young talent for 5 years to hopefully make the playoffs. With 5 years of losing we could become the Kansas City Bobcats, or Las Vegas Bobcats... Charlotte Hornets pt 2.

Yeah but a 2nd round treadmill team costs a lot of money and just a 1st rd sweep fodder team already bled one owner dry. If we kept following the treadmill model we'd just keep ending up with owners having to sell the team over and over, expediting the team's move to another city even more I think.

[dre4bobcats]

My thing is how else are we supposed to build?? It's not like we are a major market team that can just sit back, get some cap space, then sign all of these marquee free agents a la New York, Miami, LA. So as a smaller market team, how are we to build?? We have no choice but to build thru the draft and then once we get a few core players, look to spend big on a free agent.

1)Find players that are unhappy with their situation or teams unhappy with that player
2)Teams Looking to get under the cap for present/future and willing to dump a decent player for expirings and or picks
3)Players that might be overpaid but still produce at a high level
4)Players that are underpaid and we could steal with a better offer
5)Teams looking to get younger that would unload vets
6)Teams that have a surplus at one position and would just trade to fill a need at a different position..
7)Players that grew up or played college ball in the area

Plus I feel like you have to have an equal mix of young, prime, and past prime players..

[Eoghan]

My thing is how else are we supposed to build?? It's not like we are a major market team that can just sit back, get some cap space, then sign all of these marquee free agents a la New York, Miami, LA. So as a smaller market team, how are we to build?? We have no choice but to build thru the draft and then once we get a few core players, look to spend big on a free agent.

1)Find players that are unhappy with their situation or teams unhappy with that player
2)Teams Looking to get under the cap for present/future and willing to dump a decent player for expirings and or picks
3)Players that might be overpaid but still produce at a high level
4)Players that are underpaid and we could steal with a better offer
5)Teams looking to get younger that would unload vets
6)Teams that have a surplus at one position and would just trade to fill a need at a different position..
7)Players that grew up or played college ball in the area

Plus I feel like you have to have an equal mix of young, prime, and past prime players..

You're not wrong but you need to have tradeable assets to pull off most of those first, and that's what we're doing right now. Stockpiling young assets that can be wheeled and dealt later as the FO sees fit. I don't think anyone expects us to rebuild (build is more like it) solely through the draft alone.

[dre4bobcats]

Its hard to build an elite team...but I would rather be in a 2nd round treadmill trying to be elite, than waiting for young talent for 5 years to hopefully make the playoffs. With 5 years of losing we could become the Kansas City Bobcats, or Las Vegas Bobcats... Charlotte Hornets pt 2.

Yeah but a 2nd round treadmill team costs a lot of money and just a 1st rd sweep fodder team already bled one owner dry. If we kept following the treadmill model we'd just keep ending up with owners having to sell the team over and over, expediting the team's move to another city even more I think.

Well the only way this team can generate revenue is by building a winning tradition and get some sort of fanbase behind it. This state has been blessed and somewhat spoiled with basketball excellence with its college teams (UNC, Duke, you can even throw in NC State, Wake, and Davidson)..so to expect these same fans to buy season tickets to see a team that will have a guaranteed losing record this year is almost foolish to believe. NBA teams have to spend at least 43 million on salary (I think??? not sure) so why not at least give immediate hope that we will be playing in the postseason.

I dont know how much the bobcats made or lost financially, but i'm pretty sure spending 60 million and possibly selling out and WINNING games is better than spending 50 million and LOSING while having empty seats or games with 50% attendance..

[dre4bobcats]

You're not wrong but you need to have tradeable assets to pull off most of those first, and that's what we're doing right now. Stockpiling young assets that can be wheeled and dealt later as the FO sees fit. I don't think anyone expects us to rebuild (build is more like it) solely through the draft alone.

Stockpiling young assets are OK, but you have to draft well in order for teams to want to trade stars/vets for those young players... Do you honestly believe in MJ, Higgins, Cho to DRAFT WELL? I'm still in doubt about that, but I have hope.

Brandon Knight and Kawhi Leonard are better trade assets than Kemba and Biz, and we could have drafted both of those players... We would be better off trading the actual pick than trading the rookie we select lol

[Eoghan]

You're not wrong but you need to have tradeable assets to pull off most of those first, and that's what we're doing right now. Stockpiling young assets that can be wheeled and dealt later as the FO sees fit. I don't think anyone expects us to rebuild (build is more like it) solely through the draft alone.

Stockpiling young assets are OK, but you have to draft well in order for teams to want to trade stars/vets for those young players... Do you honestly believe in MJ, Higgins, Cho to DRAFT WELL? I'm still in doubt about that, but I have hope.

Brandon Knight and Kawhi Leonard are better trade assets than Kemba and Biz, and we could have drafted both of those players... We would be better off trading the actual pick than trading the rookie we select lol

I'm as dubious about our drafting abilities as you are but:

A) it's too early to throw Biz and Kemba under the bus, our roster was gutted and it was a perfect storm of suckiness. Knight and Kawhi would have looked just as awful.

B) You're better off drafting poorly than trading poorly (Tyrus) and signing poorly.

[dre4bobcats]

I'm as dubious about our drafting abilities as you are but:

A) it's too early to throw Biz and Kemba under the bus, our roster was gutted and it was a perfect storm of suckiness. Knight and Kawhi would have looked just as awful.

B) You're better off drafting poorly than trading poorly (Tyrus) and signing poorly.

flip murray and a first round pick (that still hasnt been used by chicago) for TT was not a bad trade...signing thomas to 5 yr 40 mill was the dumb move..

and drafting poorly (Morrison) leads to trading for a player that you could have drafted anyway in the same year (Thomas) lol

[Eoghan]

You're right, we suck. C'mon Pookie, let's burn this muthafvker down!