Our Franchise Direction?

[Elden Payton]

I've seen this a lot from the media and fans about what exactly is our direction currently, taking the tanking model and doing the slow rebuild and apparently being sold on it before throwing major cake at Al Jefferson and now rumours of Monta Ellis...We currently have 16m in projected space for next season including Gerald's projected 7m salary but now I'm worried how we will use it.

Has Cho and co. given up on the Thunder model? Are we following the Pacers/Grizzlies model? Have we jumped back on the treadmill? Who exactly do we plan on signing with 16m? Why is everyone questioning Cho?

What is everyone's thoughts on this matter?

I honestly think that presently we have 2 cores, one developmental team locked down longterm on rookie contracts and one of larger short term salary.

PROSPECTS

Kemba Walker
Gerald Henderson/Jeffery Taylor
Michael Kidd-Gilchrist/Jeffery Taylor
Cody Zeller
Bismack Biyombo

VETERANS

Ramon Sessions
Ben Gordon
Josh McRoberts
Al Jefferson
Brendan Haywood

I've included Henderson in the prospects core because he is still considered a work in progress by our franchise and I believe he still has upside left.

Looking at our frontcourt I imagine McBob will get plenty of burn this season at the 3, despite the fact that this most likely work at all which will aid our cause for our pick.

Analysis of both of these 'cores' in comparison with each other, brings me to my conclusion that it seems like any veteran that we believe will accelerate our rebuild are by the structures of their contracts, short term measures, they also expire when our young talents are heading into RFA, this will allow us to stay well within our means whilst locking down our own home grown talent.

After much thought about this I am not worried about losing our pick at all, a majority of the players who figure to get heavy minutes are still developing and 3 of our 5 projected starters are still on their rookie deals.

We have currently got 2 top 5 picks, 2 top ten picks and a lotto pick in Henderson, we are owed first round picks from two teams that project to be late lotto.

This is a young team and one that possesses some highly touted prospects which leads me to believe that most improvement over the next few seasons will be internal.

We now have a great coaching staff, a well respected GM and MJ is starting to share the wealth, how can people be down about our future?

Our direction is still the same longterm is my belief but with a little bit of respectability thrown into the mix, the minute we start falling out of the Wiggins/Parker/Randle sweepstakes the prospects get major burn.

The Cho is wise.

[Liver_Pooty]

I've always thought the Thunder model was based on more luck than anything. The Thunder had Ray Allen and Rashard Lewis to trade off (when both were studs) to begin their rebuild. We had Wallace and Jackson. Presti got lucky with Durant, but did well with Westbrook and Ibaka. The Green for Perkins trade I definitely didn't like, and they got absolutely ripped in the Harden trade.

I love the direction the team is going. And I'd be ecstatic if we turned into the next Pacers or Grizzlies, let alone Thunder.

[HornetJail]

I don't think there was much of a choice. I think guys like Kemba, Biz, and Hendo in particular we're sick of losing and they really needed a sign that things were heading in the right direction. I don't like the Jefferson signing, as it likely takes us out of Wiggins contention (barring some crazy ping-pong ball bounces) but we need to keep our current guys happy because they are the team now. I don't like it but that's how it probably is.

2014's draft is like 10 deep full of guys who would be the #1 pick in 2013, maybe even more than 10. As long as our pick doesn't fall under the 11-14 range where we miss the playoffs and still give up the pick to the Bulls, I think we're in okay shape moving forward. Kemba will be in consideration for the all-star game with his new frontcourt teammates. MKG will continue to make strides to become the next Wallace/Marion/Deng/Pippen/Lebron/whatever, Hendo is still improving, and Biz, Zeller, and Taylor will just work on being the best players they can be. We aren't treadmilling like the Bucks or anything. This core in three years is at the very least the equivalent of the mid-to-late-2000s Atlanta Hawks treadmill, second round exits every year.

[Eoghan]

Very directionless IMO. I just don't think Cho is drafting well enough. He's an average to slightly above average drafter and that's not good enough for a team thats only chance of contention is building through the draft. He needs to be perfect or near perfect. Without a franchise talent you just can't build sustainable success. The best way to draft a franchise talent is to either get lucky like Cleveland and Kyrie, NO and Davis or get tons of picks/young assets from other teams and hope the quantity leads to quality like the Magic with Vucevic, Harkless, Oladipo, Nicholson, Harris et al. It doesn't look like we've gotten lucky and we've only drafted 4 1st rounders with 2 of those guys being the youngest players in the league so they're projects.

I dare say this last draft and free agency almost smells like moves a GM makes knowing he's about to get fired and does to spite his soon to be former team with. If Jefferson got more than 3 years I'd almost guarantee it.

The coaching staff is looking very encouraging though. I just wish we would fire Higgins and move Cho over to handle trades and salaries and bring in a whole new scouting department and a GM/assistant GM with a great eye for drafting talent.

[Elden Payton]

Very directionless IMO. I just don't think Cho is drafting well enough. He's an average to slightly above average drafter and that's not good enough for a team thats only chance of contention is building through the draft. He needs to be perfect or near perfect. Without a franchise talent you just can't build sustainable success. The best way to draft a franchise talent is to either get lucky like Cleveland and Kyrie, NO and Davis or get tons of picks/young assets from other teams and hope the quantity leads to quality like the Magic with Vucevic, Harkless, Oladipo, Nicholson, Harris et al. It doesn't look like we've gotten lucky and we've only drafted 4 1st rounders with 2 of those guys being the youngest players in the league so they're projects.

I dare say this last draft and free agency almost smells like moves a GM makes knowing he's about to get fired and does to spite his soon to be former team with. If Jefferson got more than 3 years I'd almost guarantee it.

The coaching staff is looking very encouraging though. I just wish we would fire Higgins and move Cho over to handle trades and salaries and bring in a whole new scouting department and a GM/assistant GM with a great eye for drafting talent.

This sentiment has been making noise since the draft followed by the Jefferson signing but it really poses a question about how exactly we've changed directions?

We still have the exact same core of young guys we would have had regardless and we haven't given away any assets.

Saying Cho is bad at drafting is surely premature is it not? He doesn't exactly have a large body of work in that regard and the picks he has made have improved our team.

Analysing these picks-

Kemba Walker at #9 in the 2011 draft is an excellent pick, he would most likely go top 5ish in a redraft, probably the most talented Bobcat in history

Bismack Biyombo at #7 in the 2011 draft has the jury still out on the verdict but the pick cost us nothing and he would have gone #8 if we hadn't taken him, would you rather Kemba Walker+Bismack Biyombo or Kemba Walker+Brandon Knight? Has already led our team in rebounds and blocks as the 7th youngest player in the league.

Michael Kidd-Gilchrist at #2 in the 2012 draft is a very good pick, We couldn't have taken Lillard and Drummond was not going that high, Robinson the guy we got roasted for not taking is much worse than Gilchrist.

Jeffery Taylor at #31 in the 2012, great value and should have been a late first imo.

Cody Zeller at #4 in the 2013 draft is to be seen but taking the most complete and safest player at the biggest position of need is a winner in this draft, the guy was BPA also.

You make out like we wouldn't go the Orlando route if we could but the fact remains that Cho had no Dwight trade chip to work with, JJ Redick had insanely high trade value last season also and was expendable.

"Getting lucky" is not a draft strategy and how can you hold that against Cho?

Cho led us to a 7 win season and didn't get fired, I'd hazard a guess that his job is safe for the meantime.

[JDuaneWayne]

I think saying we have a good coaching staff is a bit premature. just like the Zeller and MKG talks are premature. There are a lot of things to be seen with this team.

I don't think Big Al changed our direction , he basically replaced Tyrus Thomas who gave us nothing. He may have practiced a lot, according to Bonnell, but he is an introvert who wasn't going to help mentor our young players. Being a gym rat when you're not seeing the court does nothing for motivation, like when our starters do it.

I think "direction" is a fluid thing. You take your due diligence and see what moves you can make. I don't think this team is following anyone's model per se. Cho is a numbers guy he puts a value on certain players and if they can be had within his value then he will make a move for that player.

That being said, I'm not sold on all these number guys in the league. Hopefully it just doesn't turn out like one of the final scenes of "Trouble with the curve"

[ohara]

I dont really see the concern about the directlon. I think they are building thru the draft and adding some needed veteran leadership who can help score points. And like others said, we cannot keep sucking horribly and hope that players like Kemba and MKG will stick around after their Rookie contracts are up. They want to win some and see the FO is committed to winning. Dont really think they look at things like the fans do and want to suck so they get more ping pong balls in the hopper. Some of the moves the FO makes is to make the current players happy and knowing the team is trying to improve.

[MasterIchiro]

One thing I find strange is this front office seems to have an aversion to shooters. We passed on Beal, then passed up McLemore then apparently passed on Mayo but it's possible he rejected overtures. They like Henderson. I get it. But for someone who has survived many-a-challenges from the draft, free agency and potential trades, Henderson has sure been hanging out there in free agency for a while. I wonder if there is a divide in the organization when it comes to certain players. I think Henderson might be one of those players.

I think the intention is to continue to build through the draft.

How can it not be when we have as many as 3 lottery picks coming to us in 2014? There's an obvious strategy behind the harvesting of those picks.

I think the most frustrating element of the rebuild is that our tanks have been timed with weaker drafts. And I think there is obviously some anxiousness now over whether we might squander a chance for a game changer in the first really deep draft of our rebuild period. Whether or not this anxiety is unfounded remains to be seen. I don't think the front office made a miscalculation. I feel like the Jefferson signing was merely the first necessary step to climb out of irrelevancy in that it only prepares this core to win before the addition of maybe one more veteran star and a couple of young talented draftees from the 2014 draft. I think it was meant to help us compete with the goal of translating into actual wins eventually.

I also think there was a perception problem and when that happens you can't undue it overnight. We needed Jefferson to enter this preliminary phase of rebranding behind the Hornets label.

I'm not sure who the long term answer is at SG but I hope they are not banking on Hendo. I hope he takes the QO. He becomes a potential deadline piece along with Gordon and Sessions. We're going to know alot more about direction at the 2014 trade deadline. I hope we stock up on expensive talent and/or picks.

[KembaWalker]

clearly the 100% focus is on the culture moreso than the tank. getting an all star caliber vet with a rep for being a mentor and a teacher and making a heavy investment into the coaching staff. clearly Cho sees more in our youngsters than we do. i think we are making a concerted effort to cultivate our own superstar. whether its Kemba, MKG, Zeller remains to be seen. those guys have the tools, they need to be put into situations where they can thrive. thats how you make a superstar. being a "good drafting team" isn't really about who you pick. everyone that gets drafted has talent. its about putting them in situations where they can succeed. thats why some teams have lots of prospects that pan out and some teams have none

[countryboi]

The direction of this team is just to get better by any means...if its by draft picks or FA so be it. It remains to be seen of this puts or back on the treadmill or not. Before last season I think we would have said the pacers were on the treadmill

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

I think that Cho has been super consistent about what direction he wanted to go and he’s followed through on nearly everything.

The plan was to:
1. Bottom out and build through the draft.
2. Add free agents based mostly on complementing young talent.
3. Make trades that maximize ability to acquire future assets, both in the draft and in free agency.

The misunderstanding that I feel like some folks have is that “bottom out and build through draft” is not the same thing as “tank year after year to get high draft picks.” The plan was to get bad and then slowly get better until the team could hopefully contend. I mostly feel like it’s the “slowly get better” part that folks here chafe at. Any positive move outside of watching draft picks get better or resigning low impact players like McBob gets panned as hurting the team’s chances in future drafts … but that’s not the only way the team was slated to improve. Adding free agents was always part of the agenda.

[Eoghan]

Very directionless IMO. I just don't think Cho is drafting well enough. He's an average to slightly above average drafter and that's not good enough for a team thats only chance of contention is building through the draft. He needs to be perfect or near perfect. Without a franchise talent you just can't build sustainable success. The best way to draft a franchise talent is to either get lucky like Cleveland and Kyrie, NO and Davis or get tons of picks/young assets from other teams and hope the quantity leads to quality like the Magic with Vucevic, Harkless, Oladipo, Nicholson, Harris et al. It doesn't look like we've gotten lucky and we've only drafted 4 1st rounders with 2 of those guys being the youngest players in the league so they're projects.

I dare say this last draft and free agency almost smells like moves a GM makes knowing he's about to get fired and does to spite his soon to be former team with. If Jefferson got more than 3 years I'd almost guarantee it.

The coaching staff is looking very encouraging though. I just wish we would fire Higgins and move Cho over to handle trades and salaries and bring in a whole new scouting department and a GM/assistant GM with a great eye for drafting talent.

This sentiment has been making noise since the draft followed by the Jefferson signing but it really poses a question about how exactly we've changed directions?

We still have the exact same core of young guys we would have had regardless and we haven't given away any assets.

Saying Cho is bad at drafting is surely premature is it not? He doesn't exactly have a large body of work in that regard and the picks he has made have improved our team.

Analysing these picks-

Kemba Walker at #9 in the 2011 draft is an excellent pick, he would most likely go top 5ish in a redraft, probably the most talented Bobcat in history

Bismack Biyombo at #7 in the 2011 draft has the jury still out on the verdict but the pick cost us nothing and he would have gone #8 if we hadn't taken him, would you rather Kemba Walker+Bismack Biyombo or Kemba Walker+Brandon Knight? Has already led our team in rebounds and blocks as the 7th youngest player in the league.

Michael Kidd-Gilchrist at #2 in the 2012 draft is a very good pick, We couldn't have taken Lillard and Drummond was not going that high, Robinson the guy we got roasted for not taking is much worse than Gilchrist.

Jeffery Taylor at #31 in the 2012, great value and should have been a late first imo.

Cody Zeller at #4 in the 2013 draft is to be seen but taking the most complete and safest player at the biggest position of need is a winner in this draft, the guy was BPA also.

You make out like we wouldn't go the Orlando route if we could but the fact remains that Cho had no Dwight trade chip to work with, JJ Redick had insanely high trade value last season also and was expendable.

"Getting lucky" is not a draft strategy and how can you hold that against Cho?

Cho led us to a 7 win season and didn't get fired, I'd hazard a guess that his job is safe for the meantime.

To be fair, I didn't say that Cho was a bad drafter. To me, early returns seem to indicate that he's not a great one and that's the problem. A small market franchise needs to hit homeruns to build a contender and Cho's drafting is producing some singles, maybe a double or two at best. Biz is definitely a tall pop fly that we can't tell will come down inside the park or not. Can't really say Cody is going to be good or not until he plays NBA games but fwiw it was an unpopular pick. Getting on base is certainly better than constantly striking out like our franchise used to every draft but I have a feeling we're leaving runners stranded.

I still steadfastly believe that we could have traded down in last year's draft and come away with some combination of Drummond + asset which no matter how you slice it is better than just MKG. Cho had a mancrush and didn't want to move down. Okay. This year we had 2-3 players fall into our lap that were in the running for #1 pick practically all year. But Cho had a mancrush and didn't want to move down for him. This is not a successful formula for building through the draft. If one of these guys turns into a truly elite player than all is forgiven but I don't think anyone we've drafted has a ceiling higher than occasional All-Star at best. People can cry about changing the culture all they want but a losing team full of "winners" is still a team full of losers b/c attitude doesn't win as many games as talent does.

[BobsBuddy]

2014 We win 29 games with Big Al...We trade Ben Gordon and Sessions before deadline for?.. We draft #5
2015 We Win 40 games and 8th seed...We trade BIZ. Chicago gets our pick, we draft 19th/24thToronto/Detroit picks. We are swept by Miami, Higgins is fired. McBob and Henderson resign We pickup a franchise player in draft after it drops to us at 17. Jefferson has great year and extend him 2 more years.
2016 We go deep in eastern conference playoffs lead by Hendo,McBob,MKG,KW,ZEllar/Big Al.

2017 We win NBA Championship

[JDR720]

:wavefinger: 2014 We win 29 games with Big Al...We trade Ben Gordon and Sessions before deadline for?.. We draft #5
2015 We Win 40 games and 8th seed...We trade BIZ. Chicago gets our pick, we draft 19th/24thToronto/Detroit picks. We are swept by Miami, Higgins is fired. McBob and Henderson resign We pickup a franchise player in draft after it drops to us at 17. Jefferson has great year and extend him 2 more years.
2016 We go deep in eastern conference playoffs lead by Hendo,McBob,MKG,KW,ZEllar/Big Al.

2017 We win NBA Championship

you put some thought into that but i dont think that is accurate

[HornetJail]

:wavefinger: 2014 We win 29 games with Big Al...We trade Ben Gordon and Sessions before deadline for?.. We draft #5
2015 We Win 40 games and 8th seed...We trade BIZ. Chicago gets our pick, we draft 19th/24thToronto/Detroit picks. We are swept by Miami, Higgins is fired. McBob and Henderson resign We pickup a franchise player in draft after it drops to us at 17. Jefferson has great year and extend him 2 more years.
2016 We go deep in eastern conference playoffs lead by Hendo,McBob,MKG,KW,ZEllar/Big Al.

2017 We win NBA Championship

i dont even...

[JDR720]

well i just watched Al's interview and press conference video's on Bobcats.com and he seams like a good guy, he wants to help mentor and teach Biz and Cody and the other young players and learn from Ewing to....he also said he was going to Vegas to watch the summer league team so he can watch the young guys play

[KembaWalker]

cant be that mad at the franchise for not letting the pipedream of drafting a superstar cloud them from making solid bball moves

for every Durant/Duncan guy you get lucky for at the top of the lottery there are just as many if not more who move on from their teams before winning any titles. LeBron, Dwight, CP3, Melo, Deron.

we have to get our team right to the point where people don't think we are an absolute joke or else when we finally get that guy (if we can't groom one ourselves which I think we will..) he will just ditch us.

but yeah..people here look at our guys collectively and say we don't have the talent to end the tank but then say Kemba has the talent to be a 22/8 guy, MKG has talent to be a 18/8 guy, Zeller has the potential to be a 18/8 guy etc. those aren't even totally ridiculous potential claims. if 2 of them reach that level and the other ends up pretty good and can attract some decent free agents we'll be a damn nice team to watch for a long time.

this city is never going to have a LeBron/D-Wade/Bosh cHeat roster or some Lakers superteam crap thats going to be projected to win 65 games every single year. if you're hoping for that you might as well pick a new team because its never going to happen

[Elden Payton]

To be fair, I didn't say that Cho was a bad drafter. To me, early returns seem to indicate that he's not a great one and that's the problem. A small market franchise needs to hit homeruns to build a contender and Cho's drafting is producing some singles, maybe a double or two at best. Biz is definitely a tall pop fly that we can't tell will come down inside the park or not. Can't really say Cody is going to be good or not until he plays NBA games but fwiw it was an unpopular pick. Getting on base is certainly better than constantly striking out like our franchise used to every draft but I have a feeling we're leaving runners stranded.

I still steadfastly believe that we could have traded down in last year's draft and come away with some combination of Drummond + asset which no matter how you slice it is better than just MKG. Cho had a mancrush and didn't want to move down. Okay. This year we had 2-3 players fall into our lap that were in the running for #1 pick practically all year. But Cho had a mancrush and didn't want to move down for him. This is not a successful formula for building through the draft. If one of these guys turns into a truly elite player than all is forgiven but I don't think anyone we've drafted has a ceiling higher than occasional All-Star at best. People can cry about changing the culture all they want but a losing team full of "winners" is still a team full of losers b/c attitude doesn't win as many games as talent does.

The thing is by saying he's an average drafter writes off the prospects that we have accumulated over the last 3 seasons, Kemba and Biz are about to enter their third season, Gilchrist his second and Cody his first, how have they been proven average picks?

Kemba is great value for a #9 pick, this was an excellent pick, the jury is still out on the rest but the reality is each of them has merit for where they were picked and Gilchrist is going to be better than Drummond imo, I accept and understand why Cho didn't want to trade down and the same goes for Zeller.

The whole swing for the fence thing is great in theory but the fact remains that we are building a TEAM, ignoring obvious red flags and deficiencies in favour of perceived upside is ridiculous imo.

As Charlotte we cannot think that we will just tank forever and get a superstar, we have to look at opportunities to build in the meantime.

Saying things like "if one of these guys turns out to be a truly elite player then all is forgiven" is crazy because we have not had a truly elite player in our whole franchise history...Not a single player picked behind any of our players is truly elite so I have no idea what needs to be forgiven.

[Red Larrivee]

I think Jordan got fed up with the past two seasons. Each game I saw him at, he looked miserable. Like "sell the team tomorrow" miserable. Everyone knows Jordan HATES losing, so I think he gave Cho and Higgins the thumbs up to improve the team earlier than some expected. Hence, the Jefferson signing.

With the Hornets rebranding, Jordan is in full force to change the culture of Charlotte basketball and kill his image as a terrible owner/general manager. Another season with a lengthy losing streaks isn't cutting it. He wants butts in seats, he wants competitive basketball and he doesn't want people looking at the team as a walking punchline.

I wouldn't worry about getting Wiggins or Randle or Jabari right now. Tanking isn't something that becomes relevant until March or April of next season. Even if the Bobcats don't win that lottery, they can still get a pretty good player.

[Elden Payton]

I think Jordan got fed up with the past two seasons. Each game I saw him at, he looked miserable. Like "sell the team tomorrow" miserable. Everyone knows Jordan HATES losing, so I think he gave Cho and Higgins the thumbs up to improve the team earlier than some expected. Hence, the Jefferson signing.

With the Hornets rebranding, Jordan is in full force to change the culture of Charlotte basketball and kill his image as a terrible owner/general manager. Another season with a lengthy losing streaks isn't cutting it. He wants butts in seats, he wants competitive basketball and he doesn't want people looking at the team as a walking punchline.

I wouldn't worry about getting Wiggins or Randle or Jabari right now. Tanking isn't something that becomes relevant until March or April of next season. Even if the Bobcats don't win that lottery, they can still get a pretty good player.

And 1'd.

Good post.

I think the timing of the Hornets rebrand has made us accelerate our position rebuild wise but I can't see how anyone has a problem with this?

Also about the Wiggins/Randle/Parker sweepstakes, we haven't seen these guys in college at all so we cannot place so much stake in that possibility.

I think Marcus Smart would be a great option as our 2 guard of the future if we land outside the top 3, he's everything we look at in a prospect including the fact he's not a great shooter!