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2013-14: Tank or Shoot For Playoffs?
Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 2:45 am
by HornetJail
There's been so much talk about our team's direction this year, so let's hear everyone's position on this.
Should we shoot for the playoffs in this ultra-weak Eastern Conference?
OR
Should we try to tank this season for a chance at Wiggins/Exum/Parker/Randle/whoever else?
---
Personally, I've always been right there in the middle, in the wait-and-see group. I want to wait until the new year to see whether we look like a playoff team in the East. If we're looking good then, we should look to make a win-now move or two (moving picks for better players). If we don't look like a playoff team but more like a 10th seed or so, then let the tank roll.
If I had to make a decision right now, I'd say go for the playoffs. There are so many garbage teams this year (moreso in the East) that it will be nearly impossible for a team of this caliber to tank. There are tanking teams that will happily move players for future picks and we can improve our team that way to be a legitimate threat.
Re: 2013-14: Tank or Shoot For Playoffs?
Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 2:47 am
by Liver_Pooty
Im tired of losing.
Re: 2013-14: Tank or Shoot For Playoffs?
Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 2:49 am
by Stun704
I say tank because if we make the playoffs this year it'll be fools gold, so many teams are trying to tank this year & they won't be tanking next year. Next year however it'll be much harder to make the playoffs because these teams tanking this year will be retooled with sure-fire studs.
Re: 2013-14: Tank or Shoot For Playoffs?
Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 2:53 am
by HornetJail
Stun704 wrote:I say tank because if we make the playoffs this year it'll be fools gold, so many teams are trying to tank this year & they won't be tanking next year. Next year however it'll be much harder to make the playoffs because these teams tanking this year will be retooled with sure-fire studs.
So will we. Detroit looks like they'll have a solid pick. Portland will be good enough to just sneak in to the playoffs and we have plenty of trade chips. I really think we will have a top 6-7 pick no matter what once we put together a solid enough package.
Re: 2013-14: Tank or Shoot For Playoffs?
Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 2:54 am
by JDR720
the worst thing that can happen in making playoffs, 1-We lose our pick 2-We will get swept 3-We will be sad when we get swept and lose our pick 4-Risk getting "stuck in the middle"
my goal is to be "respectably bad" in other words win around 30 games and keep our pick
Re: 2013-14: Tank or Shoot For Playoffs?
Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 2:59 am
by HornetJail
JDR720 wrote:the worst thing that can happen in making playoffs, 1-We lose our pick 2-We will get swept 3-We will be sad when we get swept and lose our pick 4-Risk getting "stuck in the middle"
my goal is to be "respectably bad" in other words win around 30 games and keep our pick
So exactly where we were from 2006-2011?
Re: 2013-14: Tank or Shoot For Playoffs?
Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:00 am
by Liver_Pooty
Biz Gilwalker wrote:JDR720 wrote:the worst thing that can happen in making playoffs, 1-We lose our pick 2-We will get swept 3-We will be sad when we get swept and lose our pick 4-Risk getting "stuck in the middle"
my goal is to be "respectably bad" in other words win around 30 games and keep our pick
So exactly where we were from 2006-2011?
Lol ain't that the truth.
Re: 2013-14: Tank or Shoot For Playoffs?
Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:02 am
by catch20two
Playoffs baby!!!
If the core of 5 lottery picks plus Jefferson that we already have isn't good enough to make us a playoff contender then I doubt any rookie we draft outside of the top 5 in next year's draft will make us a championship contender. We're not bad enough to land a top 3 pick but we're good enough to be a low seeded playoff team. We have so much room for growth in the potential of Kemba, Biz, MKG, and Zeller that we could very well be the current Pacers in 2-3 more years.
Re: 2013-14: Tank or Shoot For Playoffs?
Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:12 am
by KingExecutive
I hope they play every game to win. It's not a decision the GM can make. It's up to the players, and I sure hope they want to win.
I say if the season continues on this path...Stay. Patient. Monitor the picks owed to us, and if the right opportunity opens (ONLY IF IT'S A GREAT OPPORTUNITY), pull the trigger. Make a win-now move with the picks, and look to add depth or another solid player with the 13 million off of Gordon's expiring.
If injuries occur, ride the wave baby. Let the picks and the core players develop and don't make any dumb trades. That doesn't and should never mean that we hope to lose. Ever.
Bobcats are in a great position with a decent amount of cap space opening up and two/three picks in a good draft. Only do things to improve our current position.
Re: 2013-14: Tank or Shoot For Playoffs?
Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:13 am
by BigSlam
Liver_Pooty wrote:Im tired of losing.
Re: 2013-14: Tank or Shoot For Playoffs?
Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:14 am
by vorbis
copypaste from gamethread (because it is relevant to the topic)
personally i'm done with tank/no tank discussion until at least february. let the players play. let the coaches coach them to the max of their ability. ffs at the end of the day they're still trying to learn the NBA game. if the team is without a rudder after the all-star break, then we can talk about the cost/benefit of tamping down the wins.
edit: i would even go so far as to say tanking should only be considered from the months of february to october. once the season starts, i don't know how you expect to build a winning tradition if you're intentionally handicapping the play on the floor right out of the gate. make offseason free agent/trade/draft moves with a longterm vision, fine. make lineup/personnel decisions on the homestretch of the season to set yourself up financially or maximize draft potential, an argument can be made. but especially with a young team, you've got to let the players stretch their legs to see what they're capable of.
Re: 2013-14: Tank or Shoot For Playoffs?
Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:16 am
by HornetJail
vorbis wrote: let the players play. let the coaches coach them to the max of their ability. ffs at the end of the day they're still trying to learn the NBA game. if the team is without a rudder after the all-star break, then we can talk about the cost/benefit of tamping down the wins.
You and I both. I'm on the wait-and-see track, but we need to make a decision fairly soon. If we're 22-28 fifty games into the season, it's too late to tank, and maybe a little too late to make a run to the playoffs. We can't be stuck in that 11-14 zone where the Bulls get our pick and we still miss out on the postseason.
Re: 2013-14: Tank or Shoot For Playoffs?
Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:21 am
by Liver_Pooty
We aren't getting Randle, Parker, Exum, or Wiggins this year. We got the 4th pick last year when we only won 21 freaking games. Some of you say that you want to see progress from our young players while losing. Well, if we lose like we have been losing that will be ZERO progress from our young players, and a huge waste of time in drafting them. Can't say that you want your young guys to play well and develop while losing, that isn't possible half the time especially with Biyombo and Walker in their third year and MKG in his second
Re: 2013-14: Tank or Shoot For Playoffs?
Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 am
by HornetJail
Liver_Pooty wrote:We aren't getting Randle, Parker, Exum, or Wiggins this year. We got the 4th pick last year when we only won 21 freaking games. Some of you say that you want to see progress from our young players while losing. Well, if we lose like we have been losing that will be ZERO progress from our young players, and a huge waste of time in drafting them. Can't say that you want your young guys to play well and develop while losing, that isn't possible half the time especially with Biyombo and Walker in their third year and MKG in his second
I can't and-1 this enough times. A winner like Kemba can't take kindly to much more of this. He has been a winner all his life and has been a complete stud doing it. He'll be a lot better on a team with more options, playing better. A healthy Al Jefferson is a giant step in the right direction.
Re: 2013-14: Tank or Shoot For Playoffs?
Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:28 am
by Liver_Pooty
Biz Gilwalker wrote:Liver_Pooty wrote:We aren't getting Randle, Parker, Exum, or Wiggins this year. We got the 4th pick last year when we only won 21 freaking games. Some of you say that you want to see progress from our young players while losing. Well, if we lose like we have been losing that will be ZERO progress from our young players, and a huge waste of time in drafting them. Can't say that you want your young guys to play well and develop while losing, that isn't possible half the time especially with Biyombo and Walker in their third year and MKG in his second
I can't and-1 this enough times. A winner like Kemba can't take kindly to much more of this. He has been a winner all his life and has been a complete stud doing it. He'll be a lot better on a team with more options, playing better. A healthy Al Jefferson is a giant step in the right direction.
This draft is getting hype out of 4, perhaps 5 guys. Parker, Wiggins, Exum, Randle, perhaps Smart and Gordon (Gordons been trash)
The way the East is going there is no way that were going to land in the top 4 unless we leapfrog a bunch of teams (were the Bobcats, wont happen) if we dont make the playoffs. Players do not tank, coaches do not tank, front offices tank and the roster has been assembled. Were doing all of this without Jefferson so its not like his signing is the reason why we're .500
Re: 2013-14: Tank or Shoot For Playoffs?
Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:30 am
by Liver_Pooty
Tanking is a disease, always wanting the next big thing. Guess what happens after 2014? Teams will be tanking for Tyus Jones and Jahlil Okafor. Its a yearly ordeal where fans look for the "next big thing". The fact is that "the next big thing" is definitely not a sure thing, and its stupid to waste a season trying to draft a kid who is not a sure thing at all, Unless we want to become the next Portland Trail Blazers.
Re: 2013-14: Tank or Shoot For Playoffs?
Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:35 am
by thruthefire
I'm hopeful that the rest of the East will play to its potential. Washington, Cleveland, Brooklyn, New York, Detroit, etc. Making the playoffs in what is currently a JV conference doesn't accomplish anything.
Re: 2013-14: Tank or Shoot For Playoffs?
Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:41 am
by Liver_Pooty
thruthefire wrote:I'm hopeful that the rest of the East will play to its potential. Washington, Cleveland, Brooklyn, New York, Detroit, etc. Making the playoffs in what is currently a JV conference doesn't accomplish anything.
Going to the second round of the playoffs would mean alot. After Indiana and Miami what is there? Chicago? I think we would make that a decent series. Brooklyn? NY? Detroit? Bring those teams on.
Re: 2013-14: Tank or Shoot For Playoffs?
Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:43 am
by mrknowitall215
Shoot for the playoffs. I've never liked the idea of tanking. In order to tank you have to lose intentionally. In order to lose intentionally you have to accept being a loser, and only a loser would accept being a loser. At that point, losing becomes contagious and affect the entire organization
Re: 2013-14: Tank or Shoot For Playoffs?
Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:44 am
by Liver_Pooty
We've spent the past two drafts trying to change the culture. To keep on being "losers" for a draft pick doesn't do anything but keep the current roster down.