Fun with Stats!!!

Snidely FC · Post #81 » by **Snidely FC** » Mon Apr 7, 2014 5:09 pm

So, ESPN introducing a new state Real Plus/Minus that

isolates the unique plus-minus impact of each NBA player by adjusting for the effects of each teammate, opposing player and coach.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/10740 ... plus-minus.
Not a Bobcat friendly metric, RPM has Al Jefferson at 19th best Center and Kemba at 21st best PG, MKG 25th SF, McBob at 36th PF and no SG in the top 40.
http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_ ... position/1

gehenherzog · Post #82 » by **gehenherzog** » Mon Apr 7, 2014 5:23 pm

Snidely FC wrote:So, ESPN introducing a new state Real Plus/Minus that
isolates the unique plus-minus impact of each NBA player by adjusting for the effects of each teammate, opposing player and coach.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/10740 ... plus-minus.
Not a Bobcat friendly metric, RPM has Al Jefferson at 19th best Center and Kemba at 21st best PG, MKG 25th SF, McBob at 36th PF and no SG in the top 40.
http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_ ... position/1

Tolliver is also 16th PF

mrknowitall215 · Post #83 » by **mrknowitall215** » Mon Apr 7, 2014 5:30 pm

Snidely FC wrote:So, ESPN introducing a new state Real Plus/Minus that
isolates the unique plus-minus impact of each NBA player by adjusting for the effects of each teammate, opposing player and coach.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/10740 ... plus-minus.
Not a Bobcat friendly metric, RPM has Al Jefferson at 19th best Center and Kemba at 21st best PG, MKG 25th SF, McBob at 36th PF and no SG in the top 40.
http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_ ... position/1

I don't know how serious I can respect a metric that rank Patrick Beverley #3 among point guards, Demarre Carroll #4 among small forwards, Nick Collison #2 among power forwards, and DeAndre Jordan & Anderson Varejao #1-2 among centers

Post #84 » by **JDR720** » Mon Apr 7, 2014 5:37 pm

Patrick Beverly is the 3rd best PG? Vince Carter is better than Wade and Thompson? Matt Barnes and Demarre Carroll are better than Carmelo and Deng? Nick Collison is the 2nd best PF? Ant Davis isn't a top 20 PF? Anderson Varejao is the 2nd best C?

ESPN needs to stop with all these advanced stat things

Post #85 » by **fatlever** » Mon Apr 7, 2014 5:55 pm

brandon jennings #79, below luke ridnour #71. haha.

Post #86 » by **fatlever** » Mon Apr 7, 2014 5:58 pm

biz ranked #77 center, mullens dead last at #81.

Post #87 » by **JDR720** » Mon Apr 7, 2014 6:00 pm

fatlever wrote:biz ranked #77 center, mullens dead last at #81.

Mullens at #81 at least they got something right

mrknowitall215 · Post #88 » by **mrknowitall215** » Mon Apr 7, 2014 6:07 pm

It's just yet another stat created by ESPN to reiterate LeBron James as the cream of the crop now that Kevin Durant has a higher PER

:dontknow:

Post #89 » by **JDR720** » Mon Apr 7, 2014 6:09 pm

Every Bobcat in the rankings

Kemba #21 PG
Luke #71 PG
Pargo #76 PG
CDR #38 SG
Gerald #61 SG
Neal #80 SG
MKG #25 SF
Jeff #81 SF
McRoberts #36 PF
Tolliver #16 PF
Al #19 C
Cody #51 C
Biz #77 C
White #83 PF

Hayward N/A

Sessions #45 PG
Adrien #55 PF

LamarMatic7 · Post #90 » by **LamarMatic7** » Mon Apr 7, 2014 6:14 pm

Calm your panties, guys. It's just a stat, no need to get all worked up. Obviously, it doesn't mean that Beverly is the third best point guard or DeMarre Carroll is the fourth best small forward. My guess would be that guys such as them are treated well by advanced stats and this isn't no exception. They play on line-ups that succeed and stick to their limitations - play great D and make open shots. It reminds me of a recent blog by Justin Kubatko on how Horace Grant was third in win shares this one season just because he shot with a high percentage, didn't turn the ball over and rebounded, basically, knocked down open shots, didn't do what he can't do and played on a great team.

(the link to that article - http://statitudes.com/blog/2014/04/02/t ... conundrum/)

oh and Nick Collison has been among the league leaders in net rating (OffRTG - DefRTG = Net Rating) for the whole year so it doesn't surprise me to see him so high. it only tells me that even though they claim that "the metric isolates the unique plus-minus impact of each NBA player by adjusting for the effects of each teammate, opposing player and coach", basketball is a game played 5-on-5 and you can't calculate each player's worth just by his advanced stats like in baseball. the level of your team and the role you play has a severe impact on your stats, even the advanced ones.

HornetJail · Post #91 » by **HornetJail** » Mon Apr 7, 2014 6:18 pm

Snidely FC wrote:So, ESPN introducing a new state Real Plus/Minus that
isolates the unique plus-minus impact of each NBA player by adjusting for the effects of each teammate, opposing player and coach.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/10740 ... plus-minus.
Not a Bobcat friendly metric, RPM has Al Jefferson at 19th best Center and Kemba at 21st best PG, MKG 25th SF, McBob at 36th PF and no SG in the top 40.
http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_ ... position/1

That's a pretty horrible metric all around.

EwingSweatsALot · Post #92 » by **EwingSweatsALot** » Mon Apr 7, 2014 6:26 pm

A lot of issues with this stat. The article said more will be coming out about it to explain the stat, but it just seems off. For the reasons y'all stated above. When Tolliver is our best defense player by almost a full point, McRoberts has a negative offensive rating, and MKG is our 5th best offensive player on the team at the time and 4th from guys who were here at the start of the year.

EwingSweatsALot · Post #93 » by **EwingSweatsALot** » Mon Apr 7, 2014 6:57 pm

In a chat Tom Haberstroh was discussing RPM. Someone asked if it had changed his mind on the MVP race because LeBron was so far ahead of KD. He mentioned that KD was ahead until just recently(they had been tracking it for awhile in-house. This is something else that concerns me. The season is almost over, but somehow recently LeBron is now almost 1.5 points ahead when KD is putting up 25+ every night. Obviously points aren't the end all be all, but typically 77 games into the season stats are kind of set and don't sway that much. KD hasn't been slouching and LeBron hasn't been so much better recently that some games would change the previous 65.

BlackOutBuzz · Post #94 » by **BlackOutBuzz** » Mon Apr 7, 2014 7:12 pm

Seems... very arbitrary.

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Snidely FC · Post #95 » by **Snidely FC** » Mon Apr 7, 2014 7:26 pm

High usage guys who don't make mistakes are off the charts (Lebron). And Low usage guys who don't make mistakes because they don't handle the ball much or take many shots also get a boost. A guy like Kemba who handles the ball more than almost anyone else in the league while missing a fair number of shots and making a decent number of mistakes, could help this team and his RPM by improving his shooting and consistency. I think the metric works best if you look at it as an individual scale for how much room a player has to improve. Guys like Beverly and Collison are basically maxed out. I think using the metric to say player A is better than player B is where the metric is weak.

LamarMatic7 · Post #96 » by **LamarMatic7** » Mon Apr 7, 2014 8:36 pm

Snidely FC wrote:High usage guys who don't make mistakes are off the charts (Lebron). And Low usage guys who don't make mistakes because they don't handle the ball much or take many shots also get a boost. A guy like Kemba who handles the ball more than almost anyone else in the league while missing a fair number of shots and making a decent number of mistakes, could help this team and his RPM by improving his shooting and consistency. I think the metric works best if you look at it as an individual scale for how much room a player has to improve. Guys like Beverly and Collison are basically maxed out. I think using the metric to say player A is better than player B is where the metric is weak.

This. What I wanted to say, yet constructed in a way better post.

Post #97 » by **yosemiteben** » Tue Apr 8, 2014 8:33 pm

Bismack Biyombo had 47 FGA outside the paint in the 2011-2012 season, with 10 FGM.

Bismack Biyombo had 47 FGA outside the paint in the 2012-2013 season, with 11 FGM.

Random stat there for ya.

mrknowitall215 · Post #98 » by **mrknowitall215** » Tue Apr 8, 2014 9:14 pm

yosemiteben wrote:Bismack Biyombo had 47 FGA outside the paint in the 2011-2012 season, with 10 FGM.

Bismack Biyombo had 47 FGA outside the paint in the 2012-2013 season, with 11 FGM.

Random stat there for ya.

Your numbers are actually slightly incorrect

Biyombo is shooting 5-for-12 (41.7%) from outside the paint so far this season

...12-for-36 (33.3%) from outside the paint in 2012-2013

...7-for-37 (18.9) from outside the paint in 2011-2012

To use a comparison, Cody Zeller is shooting 41-for-137 (29.9%) this season outside of the paint

Post #99 » by **yosemiteben** » Tue Apr 8, 2014 10:25 pm

As you pointed out in the other thread, those numbers came from the NBA.com shot charts, so technically saying "outside the paint" was incorrect - I should have said "outside of 8 feet."

And with regard to Zeller, agreed he is just awful from 16-24 feet this season - 34/124 (27.4%). Just left and just of the FT area from that distance he is 6/50

LamarMatic7 · Post #100 » by **LamarMatic7** » Wed Apr 9, 2014 10:16 pm

The new Zach Lowe podcast concerns that new real plus/minus stat:

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/the-l ... in-pelton/