RealGM

Spin-off thread from the game thread to avoid off-topic flooding re: which players are best fit for the starting lineup...

Henderson w/Starting Lineup
OffRtg: 102.7
DefRtg: 93.1
NetRtg: +9.6
TS%: 50.4
eFG%: 53.1
PIE%: 56.3

CDR w/ Starting Lineup
OffRtg: 123.3
DefRtg: 94.8
NetRtg: +28.5
TS%: 58.1
eFG%: 61.6
PIE%: 64.0

Cody Zeller w/ Starting Lineup
OffRtg: 86.2
DefRtg: 93.9
NetRtg: -7.7
TS%: 39.5
eFG%: 46.5
PIE%: 52.8

Bismack Biyombo w/ Starting Lineup
OffRtg: 89.7
DefRtg: 94.9
NetRtg: -5.3
TS%: 41.5
eFG%: 46.7
PIE%: 47.5

Anthony Tolliver w/ Starting Lineup as SF
OffRtg: 106.1
DefRtg: 108.1
NetRtg: -2.0
TS%: 49.5
eFG%: 53.2
PIE%: 48.1

Anthony Tolliver w/ Starting Lineup as PF
OffRtg: 100.4
DefRtg: 77.3
NetRtg: +23.1
TS%: 48.5
eFG%: 56.8
PIE%: 76.6

One thing I've learned (that I already kind of figured) is that Tolliver is better fit to be a PF than a SF

Notwithstanding, I also reacquainted my ideal thoughts that neither Zeller/Biyombo are starting material versus their counterparts, McRoberts/Jefferson

I'd lean towards CDR for hendo, you gain spacing and 3pt shooting while keeping size and defense. with tolliver for mcroberts, you lose some size and defense and playmaking. its ideal to keep the starters as good defensively as possible.

in theory, MKG would have more room for slashing with the space created by playing CDR over hendo (assuming teams started to respect his 3pt shot).

fatlever wrote:with tolliver for mcroberts, you lose some size and defense and playmaking. its ideal to keep the starters as good defensively as possible.

I agree. I was just stating that based on NBA.com's advanced stats, Tolliver is obviously a better player as a PF than a SF (the way he is currently used/misused by Clifford). Nevertheless, McRoberts is still clearly the better PF based on the advanced stats as well. It just raise a eyebrow on whether or not Zeller should be bumped out of the rotation for Tolliver as the primary backup PF, allowing Clifford to stick to his preferred 3-wing rotation, just with Henderson-CDR-Neal and Tolliver excluded into the frontcourt rotation. With Zeller playing so well lately though, I wouldn't recommend it just yet, but it's interesting enough to be a topic of discussion

Ideal starting lineup

Kemba (scorer/passer)
CDR (shooter/defender)
MKG (defender/rebounder)
McBob (passer/shooter)
Al (post scorer/rebounder)

All 5 of those players compliment each other greatly, Al forces double teams creating space for the shooters or the spacing stops double teams letting Al go 1v1, the spacing opens up more driving lanes, the driving lanes also give McBob passing lanes and on the other end of the floor we have 3 average-great perimeter defenders with MKG as the captain of the defense and the glue/hustle player and helper, CDR using his length to bother other SG's and Kemba getting steals with Al and MKG cleaning up the glass and McBob helping out also

I like Neal with MKG and Hendo with Tolliver.

Kemba can PG with both pairs of wings in the playoffs and I wouldn't get too caught up on who's starting and who's coming off the bench. You need a shooter out there at all times.

The worst combo is Hendo and MKG, thus why I like the trade.

Let CDR start for the foreseeable future. He can shoot the 3 and has been doing it better than Tolliver lately.

MKG and Hendo can't both start. I think that's clear by now. It's also clear by now that our defense suffers when MKG doesn't set the tone early. That leaves... *drum roll* ... Hendo as the odd man out. Get back to the bench where you belong. CDR needs to start.

We now have CDR,Neal, and Hendo at the 2 and MKG,ATOLL at the 3. Also it seems that we win when CDR starts backed up by Neal. I know this is not going to be popular but here is my starting and backups.
KW-Hendo (Yes at the point).......Ridhour
CDR-Neal........Pargo
MKG-Tolliver.....JT(IR)
MCBOB-Zellar
AL-BIZ......Jham......BWOOD(IR) Some situations against big Centers use Jham as backup

This way we have our best 10 players in Rotation

BobsBuddy wrote::D We now have CDR,Neal, and Hendo at the 2 and MKG,ATOLL at the 3. Also it seems that we win when CDR starts backed up by Neal. I know this is not going to be popular but here is my starting and backups.
KW-Hendo (Yes at the point).......Ridhour
CDR-Neal........Pargo
MKG-Tolliver.....JT(IR)
MCBOB-Zellar
AL-BIZ......Jham......BWOOD(IR) Some situations against big Centers use Jham as backup

This way we have our best 10 players in Rotation

Hendo at the point is a pure tank strategy.

I actually am beginning to believe that at least in some instances MKG should come off the bench and CDR could possibly start at SF, or Tolliver. MKG is just getting in foul trouble too much against some of the better wings in the league and it wipes him out for the rest of the game.

Liver_Pooty wrote:I actually am beginning to believe that at least in some instances MKG should come off the bench and CDR could possibly start at SF, or Tolliver. MKG is just getting in foul trouble too much against some of the better wings in the league and it wipes him out for the rest of the game.

What Clifford says is that MKG sets the tone defensively, which I like. Let him start the game, but sit him before he picks up two.

Biz Gilwalker wrote:

Liver_Pooty wrote:I actually am beginning to believe that at least in some instances MKG should come off the bench and CDR could possibly start at SF, or Tolliver. MKG is just getting in foul trouble too much against some of the better wings in the league and it wipes him out for the rest of the game.

What Clifford says is that MKG sets the tone defensively, which I like. Let him start the game, but sit him before he picks up two.

Hell, the way its been lately he would have to sit him 3 minutes into the game. Its so frustrating to watch a kid so talented on that end commit some of the dumbest fouls ever game in and game out.

MKG being a foul magnet make sense for him to start. That way he doesn't commit dumb fouls when we're over the limit and if he's playing that aggressive it is best to be at the start of the game as Clifford said to set the tone.

catch20two wrote:MKG being a foul magnet make sense for him to start. That way he doesn't commit dumb fouls when we're over the limit and if he's playing that aggressive it is best to be at the start of the game as Clifford said to set the tone.

Eh, im conflicted. I want to see him succeed. Starting means nothing if hes playing 17 minutes a game. He plays 8 minutes in the first and then 8-10 minutes over the remaining 3 quarters. Him starting is fine I guess. Its just frustrated watching such a talented player, especially on the defensive end struggle in his second year.

For instance post game after the blowout win against Indiana he got a ton of credit for his defense again George, which was good, but he only played 17 minutes. Wasn't as if he played 34 minutes of lock down all out D.

I like Tolliver getting minutes, but hes been pretty eh lately. If hes not making 3's hes just out there. If Clifford is serious about this ordeal where "if players aren't doing what I want they won't play" (paraphrasing) then I don't see why MKG doesn't get more minutes.

Liver_Pooty wrote:

catch20two wrote:MKG being a foul magnet make sense for him to start. That way he doesn't commit dumb fouls when we're over the limit and if he's playing that aggressive it is best to be at the start of the game as Clifford said to set the tone.

Eh, im conflicted. I want to see him succeed. Starting means nothing if hes playing 17 minutes a game. He plays 8 minutes in the first and then 8-10 minutes over the remaining 3 quarters. Him starting is fine I guess. Its just frustrated watching such a talented player, especially on the defensive end struggle in his second year.

For instance post game after the blowout win against Indiana he got a ton of credit for his defense again George, which was good, but he only played 17 minutes. Wasn't as if he played 34 minutes of lock down all out D.

I like Tolliver getting minutes, but hes been pretty eh lately. If hes not making 3's hes just out there. If Clifford is serious about this ordeal where "if players aren't doing what I want they won't play" (paraphrasing) then I don't see why MKG doesn't get more minutes.

The thing is, I think Clifford let Tolliver in the game even if he doesn't make 3's, because even if the shoot is not in, he'll continue taking shoots and spread the defense anyway.

If you bring both Hendo and Mkg off the bench along with Biz , Ridhour and Zellar, you have a bunch of basic rim rattlers..None can make 3's with any consistency. If we have to be balanced then it should be
KW-*Rid-Pargo
Hendo-Neal-JT
Tolliver-MKG/CDR
McBOB-Zellar
Atrain-Biz/JHam..

.Bwood on IR until bought out/traded at drafttime with Hendo/Portlands pick for starting 2-3 swingman like Gordon Hayward or a starting 2 guard like Lance Stevenson or OJ Mayo on a sign and trade.

BobsBuddy wrote::o If you bring both Hendo and Mkg off the bench along with Biz , Ridhour and Zellar, you have a bunch of basic rim rattlers..None can make 3's with any consistency. If we have to be balanced then it should be
KW-*Rid-Pargo
Hendo-Neal-JT
Tolliver-MKG/CDR
McBOB-Zellar
Atrain-Biz/JHam..

.Bwood on IR until bought out/traded at drafttime with Hendo/Portlands pick for starting 2-3 swingman like Gordon Hayward or a starting 2 guard like Lance Stevenson or OJ Mayo on a sign and trade.

I think Ridnour has a couple more games to prove himself and if he doesn't we're going to start seeing Pargo get 10-15 minutes a game.

Wing Combinations



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Wow, look at that Hendo-CDR offensive PPP. How is that possible? This is obviously dependent on who else is on the floor, because there is no way a CDR-MKG is that much more offensively efficient than a CDR-Hendo lineup.