ImageImage

Hornets Week 5: Double Teaming?, The Speights Game, Hairston

Moderators: fatlever, JDR720, Diop, BigSlam, yosemiteben

User avatar
LamarMatic7
Hornets Forum High-End Journalist
Posts: 9,792
And1: 2,381
Joined: Jan 02, 2011
Location: Latvia
Contact:
   

Hornets Week 5: Double Teaming?, The Speights Game, Hairston 

Post#1 » by LamarMatic7 » Tue Dec 2, 2014 11:17 pm

http://lamarmatic.wordpress.com/2014/12 ... ts-game-2/

Featured topics:

Bonnell's article about possible double teams in the post;
Me highlighting our supposed real problems through the Mo Speights game;
Brian Robert's offensive production;
PJ Hairston's level of chucking shots;
some more ugly possessions due to spacing.
Image
User avatar
yosemiteben
Forum Mod - Hornets
Forum Mod - Hornets
Posts: 22,240
And1: 15,477
Joined: Mar 20, 2013
   

Re: Hornets Week 5: Double Teaming?, The Speights Game, Hair 

Post#2 » by yosemiteben » Wed Dec 3, 2014 3:03 am

Good stuff as always Lamar.

I do have to disagree a little bit with your take on the defensive adjustment though. We are among the worst teams in the NBA in FG% given up within 5 ft at 64.6%. That's by far our weakest spot on the floor both objectively and in comparison to other teams. I would agree with you that based on the eye test it seems to be Al's best spot and that Marvin and Cody have done well enough down there, but the stats don't bear that out.

Marvin is giving up 70% within 5 feet, Al is giving up 66%, Cody is giving up 61% and Biz is giving up 60%. By contrast, last season Marvin gave up 61% for Utah (granted he wasn't usually guarding PFs), Al gave up 58.4%, Cody gave up 55.8% and Biz gave up 52% from that range. Josh gave up 56.7% for us last year. As a team last year we only gave up 56.3% from that range, 5th best in the league.

Our percentages allowed are up significantly across the board. MKG may account for a good bit of that, but given that it could take him a while to get back, I think some adjustments have to be made.
Braggins
RealGM
Posts: 14,479
And1: 9,275
Joined: Jan 05, 2014

Re: Hornets Week 5: Double Teaming?, The Speights Game, Hair 

Post#3 » by Braggins » Wed Dec 3, 2014 6:46 am

Great job once again. I am torn on the post defense adjustment. I kind of think it is too early to be going that route and I'd rather just see us start Zeller, play Biz more, and never play Maxiell to see if that is good enough to shore up our post defense. I think it is only a matter of time before Zeller is the starter but the other two things I mentioned are probably never going to happen so maybe double teaming the post is the next best option. I'm terrified though that if we start doing that we are going to start seeing teams raining 3s on us like Dunlap is our coach again.
Radu_Hornets
Rookie
Posts: 1,212
And1: 325
Joined: Dec 24, 2012
Location: Belgium (Europe - Earth - Milky Way Galaxy)
Contact:
 

Re: Hornets Week 5: Double Teaming?, The Speights Game, Hair 

Post#4 » by Radu_Hornets » Wed Dec 3, 2014 8:49 am

I want more of this stuff. It's good. It should be airmailed to the Hornets management asap.

I admit I am too lazy today to really make a relevant argumentation about the good stuff I just read, I will then just mention how glad I am that you highlight the Brian Roberts case, and his good job those past couples of games.
Image
User avatar
LamarMatic7
Hornets Forum High-End Journalist
Posts: 9,792
And1: 2,381
Joined: Jan 02, 2011
Location: Latvia
Contact:
   

Re: Hornets Week 5: Double Teaming?, The Speights Game, Hair 

Post#5 » by LamarMatic7 » Wed Dec 3, 2014 9:54 am

yosemiteben wrote:Good stuff as always Lamar.

I do have to disagree a little bit with your take on the defensive adjustment though. We are among the worst teams in the NBA in FG% given up within 5 ft at 64.6%. That's by far our weakest spot on the floor both objectively and in comparison to other teams. I would agree with you that based on the eye test it seems to be Al's best spot and that Marvin and Cody have done well enough down there, but the stats don't bear that out.

Marvin is giving up 70% within 5 feet, Al is giving up 66%, Cody is giving up 61% and Biz is giving up 60%. By contrast, last season Marvin gave up 61% for Utah (granted he wasn't usually guarding PFs), Al gave up 58.4%, Cody gave up 55.8% and Biz gave up 52% from that range. Josh gave up 56.7% for us last year. As a team last year we only gave up 56.3% from that range, 5th best in the league.

Our percentages allowed are up significantly across the board. MKG may account for a good bit of that, but given that it could take him a while to get back, I think some adjustments have to be made.


All I'm saying is that I don't think that post offense is affecting those percentages to such a degree. Those shots which we have given up at such a bad percentage, in my opinion are coming off different actions.
Image
Braggins
RealGM
Posts: 14,479
And1: 9,275
Joined: Jan 05, 2014

Re: Hornets Week 5: Double Teaming?, The Speights Game, Hair 

Post#6 » by Braggins » Wed Dec 3, 2014 1:10 pm

The more I think about it double teaming the post just seems like more of our guys scrambling all over the place exerting tons of energy trying to make up for Al not being able to defend anything. It is just one more hoop we have to jump through to try to make Al work. We already overwork our perimeter guys by forcing them to finish off every drive and contest shots at the rim so much. We know Al isn't going to be moving very much on his rotations even when we're running double teams so it will be everyone else picking up even more of the slack. It seems like it won't really help overall and will only succeed in diverting attention away from Al by making it seem like our perimeter defenders are the problem if we start to get lit up from deep.
User avatar
yosemiteben
Forum Mod - Hornets
Forum Mod - Hornets
Posts: 22,240
And1: 15,477
Joined: Mar 20, 2013
   

Re: Hornets Week 5: Double Teaming?, The Speights Game, Hair 

Post#7 » by yosemiteben » Wed Dec 3, 2014 1:29 pm

LamarMatic7 wrote:All I'm saying is that I don't think that post offense is affecting those percentages to such a degree. Those shots which we have given up at such a bad percentage, in my opinion are coming off different actions.

I would tend to agree with that, am curious to see what these tweaks look like once implemented.
User avatar
yosemiteben
Forum Mod - Hornets
Forum Mod - Hornets
Posts: 22,240
And1: 15,477
Joined: Mar 20, 2013
   

Re: Hornets Week 5: Double Teaming?, The Speights Game, Hair 

Post#8 » by yosemiteben » Wed Dec 3, 2014 1:31 pm

Braggins wrote:The more I think about it double teaming the post just seems like more of our guys scrambling all over the place exerting tons of energy trying to make up for Al not being able to defend anything.

Did you look at those stats? No one is able to defend anything. You act like Al is our sole defensive liability on this team.
Braggins
RealGM
Posts: 14,479
And1: 9,275
Joined: Jan 05, 2014

Re: Hornets Week 5: Double Teaming?, The Speights Game, Hair 

Post#9 » by Braggins » Wed Dec 3, 2014 2:09 pm

yosemiteben wrote:
Braggins wrote:The more I think about it double teaming the post just seems like more of our guys scrambling all over the place exerting tons of energy trying to make up for Al not being able to defend anything.

Did you look at those stats? No one is able to defend anything. You act like Al is our sole defensive liability on this team.

He is by far our biggest liability other than maybe Marvin being undersized (Maxiell shouldn't be relevant). We are 10 points per 100 possessions worse on defense with Al on the court. Zeller and Biz are clearly playing much better defense but they both are often playing with 3 guard lineups or a Roberts/Neal back-court.
User avatar
yosemiteben
Forum Mod - Hornets
Forum Mod - Hornets
Posts: 22,240
And1: 15,477
Joined: Mar 20, 2013
   

Re: Hornets Week 5: Double Teaming?, The Speights Game, Hair 

Post#10 » by yosemiteben » Wed Dec 3, 2014 3:06 pm

Braggins wrote:
yosemiteben wrote:
Braggins wrote:The more I think about it double teaming the post just seems like more of our guys scrambling all over the place exerting tons of energy trying to make up for Al not being able to defend anything.

Did you look at those stats? No one is able to defend anything. You act like Al is our sole defensive liability on this team.

He is by far our biggest liability other than maybe Marvin being undersized (Maxiell shouldn't be relevant). We are 10 points per 100 possessions worse on defense with Al on the court. Zeller and Biz are clearly playing much better defense but they both are often playing with 3 guard lineups or a Roberts/Neal back-court.

So he isn't even the biggest liability among our starting big men, yet your take is that this tweak is entirely to adjust for Al?

Return to Charlotte Hornets