RealGM

Hey guys, I didn't see a thread that specifically addressed my questions so I started a new one:

How are Lance and MKG supposed to work together as starting wings? Neither guy has ever been an efficient perimeter shooter so what was the theory behind them starting together? Where was the perimeter shooting supposed to come from? Was the intention that the team could function offensively with only Kemba Walker as a shooting threat?

I'm not here to criticize, I'm just wondering what the offensive concept was with a starting five of Kemba, Lance, MKG, Marvin and Al? Was Marvin supposed to be the main perimeter shooting threat as a stretch 4? Did you guys have confidence that having Marvin and Kemba as the only(reasonably) reliable 3pt threats in the starting 5 would be sufficient? Was there a belief that being a tough as nails, grinding defensive squad would allow you guys to win low scoring games?

we've had this argument many times ourselves.

we all asked the question when they first signed Lance and the general answer was that he can't be much worse than Henderson who seems allergic to shooting 3 pters.

They really wanted Hayward, Lance was the booby prize and they're still figuring it out.

It cant work. Every team has to start at least 4 deep threats to be good. Thats why the Grizzlies are so bad... Oh wait...

At his best, Lance is a pretty capable three-point shooter. Kemba and Marvin are threats but not all that consistent. Al never needs to take the three, but he actually probably has the range to take some corner threes, since he already takes and makes 20-footers without a problem. MKG is really the only guy that absolutely cannot shoot threes. Once Lance and Kemba find their groove, the spacing becomes a slightly less pressing issue. Instead of Mediocre Marvin, I really wish we'd targeted a pure shooter instead of whatever we'd classify him as.

thinkingwarriors wrote:Hey guys, I didn't see a thread that specifically addressed my questions so I started a new one:

How are Lance and MKG supposed to work together as starting wings? Neither guy has ever been an efficient perimeter shooter so what was the theory behind them starting together? Where was the perimeter shooting supposed to come from? Was the intention that the team could function offensively with only Kemba Walker as a shooting threat?

I'm not here to criticize, I'm just wondering what the offensive concept was with a starting five of Kemba, Lance, MKG, Marvin and Al? Was Marvin supposed to be the main perimeter shooting threat as a stretch 4? Did you guys have confidence that having Marvin and Kemba as the only(reasonably) reliable 3pt threats in the starting 5 would be sufficient? Was there a belief that being a tough as nails, grinding defensive squad would allow you guys to win low scoring games?

Our GM targeted Afflalo, Hayward, McRoberts and Shaun Livingston.

He ended up with Henderson, Lance, Marvin Williams and Roberts.

I think MJ's money was burning a hole in his wallet and Cho had a mandate to spend for the fans.

Now I expect Cho to overpay in trades for shooters. It's not like there isn't talent here to trade.

Thanks guys. After you beat us twice last season I became a big fan. I loved watching your scrappiness, toughness and hustle. You guys handed us our two worst shooing nights last season and I picked you to upset the Heat, maybe not using my head but, needless to say I was impressed.

thinkingwarriors wrote:Thanks guys. After you beat us twice last season I became a big fan. I loved watching your scrappiness, toughness and hustle. You guys handed us our two worst shooing nights last season and I picked you to upset the Heat, maybe not using my head but, needless to say I was impressed.

I have not forgiven you for the Speights incident. That ruined many a post-Thanksgiving weekend around here.

Braggins wrote:It cant work. Every team has to start at least 4 deep threats to be good. Thats why the Grizzlies are so bad... Oh wait...

When you said oh wait, were you thinking about how their starting backcourt is currently shooting 53% from three (Lee) and 43.5% from three (Conley)?

Cause...yeah...they are.

Memphis is currently a top 10 three point shooting team. We are second to last in the league.

yosemiteben wrote:

Braggins wrote:It cant work. Every team has to start at least 4 deep threats to be good. Thats why the Grizzlies are so bad... Oh wait...

When you said oh wait, were you thinking about how their starting backcourt is currently shooting 53% from three (Lee) and 43.5% from three (Conley)?

Cause...yeah...they are.

Memphis is currently a top 10 three point shooting team. We are second to last in the league.

Conley is shooting like 7% higher than his career average and has generally only been just goof enough to keep defenses honest. Prince isnt a threat. Tony Allen is below 30% for his career. Neither of their bigs even shoot 3s. They have been a legit Western playoff team for years with barely any deep threats. My point was that this obsession with spacing is out of control. You dont have to have a bunch of lights out deep threats to be a good team or even have a good offense. You can even be a good 3 point shooting team without great deep threats if you have an offensive system that creates good looks. The Spurs are a good example. Parker isnt better than Kemba from deep an Duncan and Splitter dont even attempt them. Kawhi is average and Green is their only really good shooter among starters. They bring most of their shooting off the bench. We need better offensive sets and ball movement a lot more than we need more shooters.

Oh, and Kemba and Lance need to get their stuff together and at least get back to their averages. All Im saying is our starting perimeter players can work.

Pretty sure Clifford's coaching manual was published before 1979. All we need is tenacious defense 1-4 and Al scores all our points from 15' and in, that's our team philosophy.

BrotherDave wrote:Pretty sure Clifford's coaching manual was published before 1979. All we need is tenacious defense 1-4 and Al scores all our points from 15' and in, that's our team philosophy.

So Clifford is the reason we don't have shooters?

What else is he supposed to do with that starting lineup?

yosemiteben wrote:

BrotherDave wrote:Pretty sure Clifford's coaching manual was published before 1979. All we need is tenacious defense 1-4 and Al scores all our points from 15' and in, that's our team philosophy.

So Clifford is the reason we don't have shooters?

What else is he supposed to do with that starting lineup?

Bench the guy that sabotages the entire the defense and chucks on middling efficiency.

BrotherDave wrote:

yosemiteben wrote:

BrotherDave wrote:Pretty sure Clifford's coaching manual was published before 1979. All we need is tenacious defense 1-4 and Al scores all our points from 15' and in, that's our team philosophy.

So Clifford is the reason we don't have shooters?

What else is he supposed to do with that starting lineup?

Bench the guy that sabotages the entire the defense and chucks on middling efficiency.

I'd start with the guys that chuck with league worst inefficiency, but I know I'm in the minority in that opinion around here.

Lets add the likes of Gary Neal and Brian Roberts to an already defensively challenged starting unit to pair them with possibly the worst starting defender in the league.

Braggins wrote:Lets add the likes of Gary Neal and Brian Roberts to an already defensively challenged starting unit to pair them with possibly the worst starting defender in the league.

Lance and Kemba have been poor defenders this year anyway. They need MKG just as much as Al. If we're already going to have a poor defense, seems to make more sense to limit two of literally the worst shooting chuckers in the league right now.

I don't actually think that's what we should do, but I think that's just as defensible as arguing that Al is the source of all our problems.

yosemiteben wrote:

Braggins wrote:Lets add the likes of Gary Neal and Brian Roberts to an already defensively challenged starting unit to pair them with possibly the worst starting defender in the league.

Lance and Kemba have been poor defenders this year anyway. They need MKG just as much as Al. If we're already going to have a poor defense, seems to make more sense to limit two of literally the worst shooting chuckers in the league right now.

I don't actually think that's what we should do, but I think that's just as defensible as arguing that Al is the source of all our problems.

Our offense improves by 5 points per 100 possessions with Al off the court and our defense improves by 10 points per 100 possessions with Al off the court. I don't think it is much of a stretch to suggest Al might be our biggest problem. The eye test backs up these numbers.

Braggins wrote:

yosemiteben wrote:

Braggins wrote:Lets add the likes of Gary Neal and Brian Roberts to an already defensively challenged starting unit to pair them with possibly the worst starting defender in the league.

Lance and Kemba have been poor defenders this year anyway. They need MKG just as much as Al. If we're already going to have a poor defense, seems to make more sense to limit two of literally the worst shooting chuckers in the league right now.

I don't actually think that's what we should do, but I think that's just as defensible as arguing that Al is the source of all our problems.

Our offense improves by 5 points per 100 possessions with Al off the court and our defense improves by 10 points per 100 possessions with Al off the court. I don't think it is much of a stretch to suggest Al might be our biggest problem. The eye test backs up these numbers.

We've been over this. Until you're ready to concede that Jason Maxiell can solve our defensive issues, given his -10 net rating on defense, I'm not going to concede that Al is a bigger problem than the fact that our starting PG and SG are shooting roughly 37% on 25 attempts per game and 20% from three on 6 attempts per game.

Anyway, I'm tired of having this debate with you so I'm done.

Lance and Kemba are the worst starting backcourt in the league.

yosemiteben wrote:

Braggins wrote:

yosemiteben wrote:Lance and Kemba have been poor defenders this year anyway. They need MKG just as much as Al. If we're already going to have a poor defense, seems to make more sense to limit two of literally the worst shooting chuckers in the league right now.

I don't actually think that's what we should do, but I think that's just as defensible as arguing that Al is the source of all our problems.

Our offense improves by 5 points per 100 possessions with Al off the court and our defense improves by 10 points per 100 possessions with Al off the court. I don't think it is much of a stretch to suggest Al might be our biggest problem. The eye test backs up these numbers.

We've been over this. Until you're ready to concede that Jason Maxiell can solve our defensive issues, given his -10 net rating on defense, I'm not going to concede that Al is a bigger problem than the fact that our starting PG and SG are shooting roughly 37% on 25 attempts per game and 20% from three on 6 attempts per game.

Anyway, I'm tired of having this debate with you so I'm done.

I don't understand what you are saying about Maxiell. Our defense is 10 points worse with him on the court so I should admit that he solves our defensive issues? Our offense is better with Lance and Kemba on the court than when they are off the court. Despite their bad shooting, which I agree is a problem, they are able to make some positive contributions on both ends of the court. Al hurts us on both ends even when he is scoring efficiently. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

edit: I misread your Maxiell statement. Comparing Maxiell to this situation is a complete false equivalency. You know Max is a horrible defender and you know Jefferson is a horrible defender and is obviously our main defensive issue (or the previous pairing of him and Marv). You can try to dodge that truth all you want but it is obviously the case. Offensively, there has been no evidence since we've acquired Al that he makes our offense better. There is really no reality based argument in favor of Al being anything but bad for the team this season in basically every aspect of the game.