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120 Guarantees: the Nic Batum thread

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Re: 120 Guarantees: the Nic Batum thread 

Post#1081 » by HoopsMalone » Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:22 pm

LamarMatic7 wrote:
MotorKeepsGoing wrote:
fatlever wrote:6 weeks would be amazing. Still have my expectations set at 12. You know, Hornets medical staff and all...

Given the recent history of our medical staff, Nic will be out 6 weeks, play 4 games, and then miss another 6 weeks.


HoopsMalone wrote:
MotorKeepsGoing wrote:Given the recent history of our medical staff, Nic will be out 6 weeks, play 4 games, and then miss another 6 weeks.


In all seriousness I expect it to go like this. He will come back and stink for a handful of games and then be like um this thing is really bothering me...


Braggins wrote:
MotorKeepsGoing wrote:It's happened enough times now that I actually think our training staff is fired if it happens again. MKG's shoulder was magically 2 months ahead of schedule and surprise! He's hurt again. Then the more moderate stuff like Lance Stephenson's groin/hamstring, Lamb's hamstring, basically every injury Batum has had... I feel like almost every injury one of our guys gets ends up repeating itself. And for that reason, Kemba's knee surgeries (while minor) bother me a bit more than they should.

For the longest time I was trying to keep a mental note of all the injury situations where there was either seemingly unnecessary complications or misdiagnosis over the last few years, but it was seriously happening so often that I lost track. It hasn't been as bad since the MKG shoulder fiasco, but id still estimate that literally 50%+ of the relevant injuries over the last few years have been potentially mishandled in some way. I remember the year we had Lance it seriously seemed like almost every injury situation had some complication.


fatlever wrote:don't forget the year Lin and Batum seemed to rush back from ankle sprains only to look like they were playing on 1 leg.


HoopsMalone wrote:It makes me really angry when teams rush players back into lineups only to see them get injured again. Like say a guy comes back 10 days early... what's that 4 games? Chances are actually pretty good we are gonna go 2-2 with or without him... maybe he swings one game but don't forget he's realistically probably not 100% so he may not help at all..... but if he re-injures himself and misses the next 25 games maybe we go 11-14 in his absence instead of 15-10... That's a four game difference.

Not to mention you need guys to be healthy for the playoffs. All this jockeying for playoff position is mostly BS we follow to amuse ourselves. If Philly was smart they'd build a good enough team to sneak into the #7 seed only playing Embiid once per week. Then unleash him in the playoffs


KembaWalker wrote:our medical staff is so great, guys always come back early from injuries

yea were ****ed


catch20two wrote:I don’t think he should rush back unless we start losing consecutively and it becomes kinda dire.

Right now the team is playing well and showing good chemistry. Lamb has stepped up to fill Batum’s void as a versatile wing in the starting lineup and the Monk/Bacon/Graham trio have been solid off the bench with room to improve.


-Ian- wrote:I don't want to rush him back either. The team should stick to the original timeline of his recovery.



I'm all for self congratulation but this was like predicting I'd drink more than "a few beers" when i got to the bar :lol:
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Re: 120 Guarantees: the Nic Batum thread 

Post#1082 » by catch20two » Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:36 pm

I’ve went to the bar expecting to get drunk only to get full on appetizers and just one drink on several occasions before tho too.
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Re: 120 Guarantees: the Nic Batum thread 

Post#1083 » by Braggins » Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:55 pm

HoopsMalone wrote:
Spoiler:
LamarMatic7 wrote:
MotorKeepsGoing wrote:Given the recent history of our medical staff, Nic will be out 6 weeks, play 4 games, and then miss another 6 weeks.


HoopsMalone wrote:
In all seriousness I expect it to go like this. He will come back and stink for a handful of games and then be like um this thing is really bothering me...


Braggins wrote:For the longest time I was trying to keep a mental note of all the injury situations where there was either seemingly unnecessary complications or misdiagnosis over the last few years, but it was seriously happening so often that I lost track. It hasn't been as bad since the MKG shoulder fiasco, but id still estimate that literally 50%+ of the relevant injuries over the last few years have been potentially mishandled in some way. I remember the year we had Lance it seriously seemed like almost every injury situation had some complication.


fatlever wrote:don't forget the year Lin and Batum seemed to rush back from ankle sprains only to look like they were playing on 1 leg.


HoopsMalone wrote:It makes me really angry when teams rush players back into lineups only to see them get injured again. Like say a guy comes back 10 days early... what's that 4 games? Chances are actually pretty good we are gonna go 2-2 with or without him... maybe he swings one game but don't forget he's realistically probably not 100% so he may not help at all..... but if he re-injures himself and misses the next 25 games maybe we go 11-14 in his absence instead of 15-10... That's a four game difference.

Not to mention you need guys to be healthy for the playoffs. All this jockeying for playoff position is mostly BS we follow to amuse ourselves. If Philly was smart they'd build a good enough team to sneak into the #7 seed only playing Embiid once per week. Then unleash him in the playoffs


KembaWalker wrote:our medical staff is so great, guys always come back early from injuries

yea were ****ed


catch20two wrote:I don’t think he should rush back unless we start losing consecutively and it becomes kinda dire.

Right now the team is playing well and showing good chemistry. Lamb has stepped up to fill Batum’s void as a versatile wing in the starting lineup and the Monk/Bacon/Graham trio have been solid off the bench with room to improve.


-Ian- wrote:I don't want to rush him back either. The team should stick to the original timeline of his recovery.



I'm all for self congratulation but this was like predicting I'd drink more than "a few beers" when i got to the bar :lol:

I think that was his point though, that it is so obvious and yet our staff still manages to flub these situations with shocking consistency.
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Re: 120 Guarantees: the Nic Batum thread 

Post#1084 » by HoopsMalone » Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:57 pm

Braggins wrote:
HoopsMalone wrote:
Spoiler:
LamarMatic7 wrote:















I'm all for self congratulation but this was like predicting I'd drink more than "a few beers" when i got to the bar :lol:

I think that was his point though, that it is so obvious and yet our staff still manages to flub these situations with shocking consistency.



I get it. I'm just saying I'd love to congratulate myself but everyone saw this coming haha
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Re: 120 Guarantees: the Nic Batum thread 

Post#1085 » by catch20two » Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:58 pm

In the past Yosemite told me that I was wrong about our medical staff being incompetent and allowing players to return from injuries too soon. What’s new? Add another “right” in my column.
They will wage war against the Lamb but the Lamb will triumph them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings - and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers." Revelation 17:14 (NIV)
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Re: RE: Re: 120 Guarantees: the Nic Batum thread 

Post#1086 » by yosemiteben » Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:54 pm

catch20two wrote:In the past Yosemite told me that I was wrong about our medical staff being incompetent and allowing players to return from injuries too soon. What’s new? Add another “right” in my column.

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Re: 120 Guarantees: the Nic Batum thread 

Post#1087 » by bravor » Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:58 pm

catch20two wrote:In the past Yosemite told me that I was wrong about our medical staff being incompetent and allowing players to return from injuries too soon. What’s new? Add another “right” in my column.


Since it's about Batum, i remember reading one of your post suggesting he was back in the team because he did not want to be challenged by Lamb.
Depending on the situation and who you talking to, it seems you can go 180° easily.

Anyway, for the current injury issue, it's not the first time in his career that Batum comes back too early. Still, it's not his shooting arm - remember, he even posted this on his beloved twitter - and he did some of his best games in the past while nursing a - albeit minor - injury.
Like you and whoever mentioned it before (Joest, 316 or another), I actually think his come back earlier than forecast has to do with Lamb being more relevant and reliable on both ends (even though both Lamb & Batum are still below average defender at their position for the current season).

And the fact that he said it was still hurting and that he is now sidelined has to do with him pretty aware of his current level of play and trying to find excuses for this. Normal reaction since he is disappointing everyone and he hates being the focus of attention.

Just like MKG second shoulder injury when he fell over Mahinmi going hard for a loose ball, sometimes it's just bad karma. Medical staff can't prevent players to take bad in game decisions. Or players saying they are all right when they are obviously not.
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Re: 120 Guarantees: the Nic Batum thread 

Post#1088 » by mrknowitall215 » Thu Dec 28, 2017 2:55 am



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Re: 120 Guarantees: the Nic Batum thread 

Post#1089 » by 316Hornets » Thu Dec 28, 2017 3:00 am

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Re: 120 Guarantees: the Nic Batum thread 

Post#1090 » by mrknowitall215 » Thu Dec 28, 2017 7:04 pm

Nic Batum as a helper bee? It’s just not working for the Charlotte Hornets.

I asked Charlotte Hornets acting coach Stephen Silas Wednesday if he thought Nic Batum looked passive in the home loss to the Boston Celtics.

Silas, filling in for Steve Clifford, said passive isn’t the word he’d use; that the Celtics defense is so physical, the sets that get Batum deep enough in the offensive zone to succeed weren’t working.


The Hornets are Walker, Dwight Howard and a whole lot of role players. There isn’t enough shooting and there sure isn’t enough Batum.

I’m a fan of Batum’s versatility and basketball savvy. But if there is even a miniscule chance of saving this season, he has to be more the alpha male.

Sometimes the dynamic reminds me of when another cerebral Frenchman, Boris Diaw, played in Charlotte: Too much helper bee, not enough take charge. I would rather see Batum aggressively bad than how this looked.


Someone – and Jordan is the obvious candidate – needs to take a stand on what comes next. Because the here-and-now looks bleak.


http://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/nba/charlotte-hornets/article191901664.html
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Re: 120 Guarantees: the Nic Batum thread 

Post#1091 » by catch20two » Thu Dec 28, 2017 7:39 pm

Bonnell wrote that garbage. We don’t need Batum to be more aggressive. We need Batum to become more efficient and accept a backup role. Batum’s career high year which happened to be a contract year wasn’t even worth his current contract.
They will wage war against the Lamb but the Lamb will triumph them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings - and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers." Revelation 17:14 (NIV)
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Re: 120 Guarantees: the Nic Batum thread 

Post#1092 » by Vanderbilt_Grad » Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:05 pm

catch20two wrote:Bonnell wrote that garbage. We don’t need Batum to be more aggressive. We need Batum to become more efficient and accept a backup role. Batum’s career high year which happened to be a contract year wasn’t even worth his current contract.

Bonnell isn't wrong. If the team was getting contract year Nic out of our "Frenchman" now they would likely have a far better record.

It's the Nic we are seeing today - the one that's slightly older, injured, a bit less aggressive, and making bad decisions - that we advocate moving to the bench. That 'demotion' doesn't need to be permanent either. If Nic heals up, finds his focus, and gets more aggressive then I would expect him to start again.

But it's one of the following - Nic either needs to play better, come off the bench, or be sent to another team.
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Re: 120 Guarantees: the Nic Batum thread 

Post#1093 » by catch20two » Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:09 pm

Vanderbilt_Grad wrote:
catch20two wrote:Bonnell wrote that garbage. We don’t need Batum to be more aggressive. We need Batum to become more efficient and accept a backup role. Batum’s career high year which happened to be a contract year wasn’t even worth his current contract.

Bonnell isn't wrong. If the team was getting contract year Nic out of our "Frenchman" now they would likely have a far better record.

It's the Nic we are seeing today - the one that's slightly older, injured, a bit less aggressive, and making bad decisions - that we advocate moving to the bench. That 'demotion' doesn't need to be permanent either. If Nic heals up, finds his focus, and gets more aggressive then I would expect him to start again.

But it's one of the following - Nic either needs to play better, come off the bench, or be sent to another team.

This Nic is eerily similar to the Nic we traded for from Portland. He duped us in a contract year. He’s paid now. Can’t just generate drive from here. On the bright side we could’ve been stuck paying Hendo 15 million instead.
They will wage war against the Lamb but the Lamb will triumph them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings - and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers." Revelation 17:14 (NIV)
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Re: 120 Guarantees: the Nic Batum thread 

Post#1094 » by Vanderbilt_Grad » Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:26 pm

catch20two wrote:This Nic is eerily similar to the Nic we traded for from Portland. He duped us in a contract year. He’s paid now. Can’t just generate drive from here. On the bright side we could’ve been stuck paying Hendo 15 million instead.

I disagree that this is the Nic from Portland. This is historical bad (for him) Nic. It's far worse than his last Portland year.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/batumni01.html

Look at the advanced stats. All of them, OTrg, VORP, WS, etc. tell the story about how bad Nic is this year vs historical value.
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Re: 120 Guarantees: the Nic Batum thread 

Post#1095 » by catch20two » Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:51 pm

He might be officially over the hill. He is 30 years old now and although versatile he was never a uber-athletic type of player.

And if the elbow injury is his excuse then he should be partial and respectable enough to ask the team to give him a reduced role until he is healthy when he knows he’s hurting the team. I refuse to buy into the excuses.
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Re: 120 Guarantees: the Nic Batum thread 

Post#1096 » by Braggins » Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:40 am

I don't buy the health excuse at this point. It was plausible at first, because they probably did rush him back a bit and it probably was bothering him for a while. However, its actually rare for NBA players to get surgery for that injury and the issue was most likely just that he needed a little more time to heal. I find it hard to believe that he is less than like 90%-95% healthy at this point.

He has been showing signs of physical decline for a while now and I think we all pretty much knew a drop off like this was possibly coming. I didn't think it would be this bad quite so soon, though. I think he will start to do a little better in the short term once he gets 100%, but his overall level of play is probably going to continue to noticeably decline from what we were expecting him to produce.
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Re: 120 Guarantees: the Nic Batum thread 

Post#1097 » by Vanderbilt_Grad » Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:00 am

I think that Nic rushed himself back, rather than the other way around. I also do buy the health excuse, but that doesn't make it better. Physical decline may be a very real factor here too though.
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Re: 120 Guarantees: the Nic Batum thread 

Post#1098 » by yosemiteben » Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:06 am

I don't know what to make of the injury, but the fundamental problem with this team is a mental one IMO.
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Re: 120 Guarantees: the Nic Batum thread 

Post#1099 » by catch20two » Fri Dec 29, 2017 5:30 pm

Braggins wrote:I don't buy the health excuse at this point.

This.
They will wage war against the Lamb but the Lamb will triumph them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings - and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers." Revelation 17:14 (NIV)
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Re: 120 Guarantees: the Nic Batum thread 

Post#1100 » by catch20two » Fri Dec 29, 2017 5:32 pm

Vanderbilt_Grad wrote:I think that Nic rushed himself back, rather than the other way around.

And this.

Batum heard them Lamb footsteps on his heels. The team was playing well and Lamb was performing at a higher level as a starter than Batum had in the previous years, even his career season.
They will wage war against the Lamb but the Lamb will triumph them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings - and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers." Revelation 17:14 (NIV)

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