ImageImage

120 Guarantees: the Nic Batum thread

Moderators: yosemiteben, JDR720, fatlever, Diop, BigSlam

User avatar
fatlever
Senior Mod - Hornets
Senior Mod - Hornets
Posts: 51,070
And1: 7,975
Joined: Jun 04, 2001
Location: Terrapin Station
     

Re: 120 Guarantees: the Nic Batum thread 

Post#1241 » by fatlever » Mon Dec 3, 2018 8:02 pm

catch20two wrote:I don’t think Batum is useless. I think he should be used less.


well said
JMAC3
Veteran
Posts: 2,978
And1: 559
Joined: May 22, 2010
     

Re: 120 Guarantees: the Nic Batum thread 

Post#1242 » by JMAC3 » Sat Jan 26, 2019 11:42 pm

Batum is overpaid. Funny thing his contact is considered one of the worst, but yet we currently don’t have a player better to start.

Honestly if you look around league he starts for more teams than you might think:

Detroit
Sacramento
Cleveland
Philly
Houston
Chicago
Memphis
Portland
Atlanta
New Orleans

That’s nearly 10 teams because I’m sure you disagree with 1 or 2. Speaks volumes to me about how shallow NBA wing depth is. How much would a fair contract for Batum be?


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums
Image
User avatar
catch20two
RealGM
Posts: 21,401
And1: 4,647
Joined: Nov 04, 2012
       

Re: 120 Guarantees: the Nic Batum thread 

Post#1243 » by catch20two » Sun Jan 27, 2019 1:18 am

JMAC3 wrote:Batum is overpaid. Funny thing his contact is considered one of the worst, but yet we currently don’t have a player better to start.

Honestly if you look around league he starts for more teams than you might think:

Detroit
Sacramento
Cleveland
Philly
Houston
Chicago
Memphis
Portland
Atlanta
New Orleans

That’s nearly 10 teams because I’m sure you disagree with 1 or 2. Speaks volumes to me about how shallow NBA wing depth is. How much would a fair contract for Batum be?


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Currently, around $7M a year based on prior notoriety and his role for the team as a starter but if we’re just basing it on his production probably the veteran’s minimum.

The offseason we overpaid him, I thought it would’ve been fair to give him a contract around $15M a year. I never understood why everyone was so antsy to pay him near the max as if he deserved it. I remember stating that we’d regret it if we paid him anything over $17M a year and that I’d rather let him walk letting another team make that mistake before I’d recommend us to pay him that kind of money.
They will wage war against the Lamb but the Lamb will triumph them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings - and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers." Revelation 17:14 (NIV)
Najee12
Senior
Posts: 664
And1: 413
Joined: May 18, 2015
       

Nicolas Batum assessment 

Post#1244 » by Najee12 » Mon Jan 28, 2019 6:57 pm

JMAC3 wrote:Honestly if you look around league he starts for more teams than you might think:

Detroit
Sacramento
Cleveland
Philly
Houston
Chicago
Memphis
Portland
Atlanta
New Orleans

That’s nearly 10 teams because I’m sure you disagree with 1 or 2. Speaks volumes to me about how shallow NBA wing depth is. How much would a fair contract for Batum be?


It's still mind-blowing to me that Charlotte is paying Nicolas Batum an average of $24 million per year. He is making more money this year than Khawi Leonard ($23.1 million), LaMarcus Aldridge ($22.4 million) Jimmy Butler ($19.8 millon) and Kyrie Irving ($20.1 million) -- perennial All-Star, all-NBA level players. For that matter, Batum is barely behind the likes of Anthony Davis ($25.4 million) and Giannis Antetokounmpo ($24.1 million) in salary this season. With the kind of salary he is making, I am certain Charlotte did not expect a return where Batum's scoring would drop 40 percent by the 2018-19 season or that some of his per-game numbers would drop as much as 50 percent.

When Batum had his career year in Charlotte I said that the Hornets needed to be wary. His 2015-16 season was a rather noticeable outlier to his typical performances, especially considering he became the second option in Charlotte. I'm also skeptical about players who put up outlier seasons in the final year of their contracts (I call it the Kevin Willis/J.R. Smith Rule -- inconsistent players who strangely put up strong years only in the final year of their deals) and Batum fits that description.

As a Portland TrailBlazers follower who was very familiar with Batum before the Blazers traded him to Charlotte, I thought anything more than $12-14 million per year for his contract in 2016 was too high. Batum always has been an inconsistent, somewhat injury-prone complementary player who performed best playing off better players (Aldridge, Damian Lillard, Wesley Matthews). Batum was pretty much underwhelming in his final year in Portland (he was also had some injury issues; I want to say that was the year he had elbow problems).

If he was a free agent in 2019, I would not pay Batum more than the mid-level exception (which will be $9 million).

As for the teams named where he supposedly would be a starter, most of those teams would be in the lottery if the playoffs started today. As for Philadelphia, it depends on how you classify Butler (I think he's more of a small forward than a shooting guard). But even then, that number still is a little low for someone getting Batum's salary and the expectation behind such a salary, which is another indicator he is overall a below-average NBA player at this stage.
Kevin Johnson isn't "Michael Jordan" famous ... he's "Mitch Richmond" famous
User avatar
catch20two
RealGM
Posts: 21,401
And1: 4,647
Joined: Nov 04, 2012
       

Re: 120 Guarantees: the Nic Batum thread 

Post#1245 » by catch20two » Mon Jan 28, 2019 7:14 pm

Batum is the reason why Kemba became efficient and as a result a better player so he deserves near the max. Batum was our most important player in the 2015-16 season.
They will wage war against the Lamb but the Lamb will triumph them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings - and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers." Revelation 17:14 (NIV)
Najee12
Senior
Posts: 664
And1: 413
Joined: May 18, 2015
       

Nicolas Batum max contract 

Post#1246 » by Najee12 » Mon Jan 28, 2019 7:18 pm

catch20two wrote:Batum is the reason why Kemba became efficient and as a result a better player so he deserves near the max. Batum was our most important player in the 2015-16 season.


That just means Nicolas Batum was a complementary player, a la his Portland days. Complementary players aren't worth $24 million per year -- that's money more suitable for perennial All-Star Game, all-NBA level players.

I reviewed some of the responses where people were praising this signing in 2016, like signing Batum at $120 million was a bargain. Some of the names praising the signing then are some of the people trying to defend him today, so now it makes sense about the irrational logic on this board.
Kevin Johnson isn't "Michael Jordan" famous ... he's "Mitch Richmond" famous
User avatar
yosemiteben
Forum Mod - Hornets
Forum Mod - Hornets
Posts: 15,390
And1: 6,857
Joined: Mar 20, 2013
   

Re: 120 Guarantees: the Nic Batum thread 

Post#1247 » by yosemiteben » Mon Jan 28, 2019 8:26 pm

Catch is trolling despite a bunch of warnings about doing that.
User avatar
catch20two
RealGM
Posts: 21,401
And1: 4,647
Joined: Nov 04, 2012
       

Re: 120 Guarantees: the Nic Batum thread 

Post#1248 » by catch20two » Mon Jan 28, 2019 9:05 pm

yosemiteben wrote:Catch is trolling despite a bunch of warnings about doing that.

I used green font, geesh lol have a sense of humor.

Obviously we thought he was a very very very important player to pay him that much.
They will wage war against the Lamb but the Lamb will triumph them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings - and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers." Revelation 17:14 (NIV)
Najee12
Senior
Posts: 664
And1: 413
Joined: May 18, 2015
       

Trolling moderators 

Post#1249 » by Najee12 » Mon Jan 28, 2019 9:39 pm

catch20two wrote:
yosemiteben wrote:Catch is trolling despite a bunch of warnings about doing that.

I used green font, geesh lol have a sense of humor.

Obviously we thought he was a very very very important player to pay him that much.


It's even more ironic considering I have seen moderators troll members on these boards. Moreover, some people are being too defensive about Nicolas Batum. It's like people are more intent on saving face than admitting Charlotte made a mistake.
Kevin Johnson isn't "Michael Jordan" famous ... he's "Mitch Richmond" famous
User avatar
catch20two
RealGM
Posts: 21,401
And1: 4,647
Joined: Nov 04, 2012
       

Re: 120 Guarantees: the Nic Batum thread 

Post#1250 » by catch20two » Mon Jan 28, 2019 10:06 pm

Najee12 wrote:
catch20two wrote:
yosemiteben wrote:Catch is trolling despite a bunch of warnings about doing that.

I used green font, geesh lol have a sense of humor.

Obviously we thought he was a very very very important player to pay him that much.


It's even more ironic considering I have seen moderators troll members on these boards. Moreover, some people are being too defensive about Nicolas Batum. It's like people are more intent on saving face than admitting Charlotte made a mistake.

I get trolled very often about Lamb’s shortcomings and being a faux UConn fan but I take it all in good humor. We have to have some lightheartedness and sarcasm here and there to avoid everyone from taking it too serious.
They will wage war against the Lamb but the Lamb will triumph them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings - and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers." Revelation 17:14 (NIV)
Lwcasu
Senior
Posts: 684
And1: 226
Joined: Apr 10, 2014
Location: China
         

Re: 120 Guarantees: the Nic Batum thread 

Post#1251 » by Lwcasu » Mon Jan 28, 2019 10:49 pm

It’s kind of funny because if Batum was getting paid $15 million a year no one would complain. He’s played better lately, but he’s looked out of shape and passive all year. If he wasn’t hirtong our chances resigning Kemba or Lamb no one would care. Could be worse I guess... we could be stuck with John Walls contract :Do
DY_nasty
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,854
And1: 1,884
Joined: Apr 14, 2010

Re: 120 Guarantees: the Nic Batum thread 

Post#1252 » by DY_nasty » Mon Jan 28, 2019 11:00 pm

Lwcasu wrote:It’s kind of funny because if Batum was getting paid $15 million a year no one would complain. He’s played better lately, but he’s looked out of shape and passive all year. If he wasn’t hirtong our chances resigning Kemba or Lamb no one would care. Could be worse I guess... we could be stuck with John Walls contract :Do

willie gets paid in cheetos and no one wants him on the court either :roll:
User avatar
Diop
Forum Mod - Hornets
Forum Mod - Hornets
Posts: 30,420
And1: 11,592
Joined: Jul 24, 2004
Location: House of Diop
 

Re: 120 Guarantees: the Nic Batum thread 

Post#1253 » by Diop » Mon Jan 28, 2019 11:31 pm

the ironic part is that Kemba was one of Batum's biggest recruiters and would've been pissed if we didn't make an effort to resign him
Image
User avatar
catch20two
RealGM
Posts: 21,401
And1: 4,647
Joined: Nov 04, 2012
       

Re: 120 Guarantees: the Nic Batum thread 

Post#1254 » by catch20two » Mon Jan 28, 2019 11:59 pm

Diop wrote:the ironic part is that Kemba was one of Batum's biggest recruiters and would've been pissed if we didn't make an effort to resign him

I don’t recall Kemba recruiting Batum. Big Al and MCW I remember because they all shared the same agent. Lamb maybe or maybe me and a few other posters spoke it into existence.
They will wage war against the Lamb but the Lamb will triumph them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings - and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers." Revelation 17:14 (NIV)
User avatar
Diop
Forum Mod - Hornets
Forum Mod - Hornets
Posts: 30,420
And1: 11,592
Joined: Jul 24, 2004
Location: House of Diop
 

Re: 120 Guarantees: the Nic Batum thread 

Post#1255 » by Diop » Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:17 am

catch20two wrote:
Diop wrote:the ironic part is that Kemba was one of Batum's biggest recruiters and would've been pissed if we didn't make an effort to resign him

I don’t recall Kemba recruiting Batum. Big Al and MCW I remember because they all shared the same agent. Lamb maybe or maybe me and a few other posters spoke it into existence.

he flew out to help talk him into resigning.

At the two minute mark, Batum first noted that Rich Cho, the team president, Kemba Walker, and Michael Kidd-Gilchrist were there to meet with him in Dallas, Texas. Michael Jordan was on the phone to talk to Nic as well. He said that “Kemba talked first what he means to the team and to him and why he can’t leave the team. got so much better since he got there.”

He said that “Kemba talked first about what I mean to the team, what I mean to him, and why I can bring to this team and I can’t leave the team. They got so much better once I got there.”
Image
User avatar
catch20two
RealGM
Posts: 21,401
And1: 4,647
Joined: Nov 04, 2012
       

Re: 120 Guarantees: the Nic Batum thread 

Post#1256 » by catch20two » Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:22 am

Diop wrote:
catch20two wrote:
Diop wrote:the ironic part is that Kemba was one of Batum's biggest recruiters and would've been pissed if we didn't make an effort to resign him

I don’t recall Kemba recruiting Batum. Big Al and MCW I remember because they all shared the same agent. Lamb maybe or maybe me and a few other posters spoke it into existence.

he flew out to help talk him into resigning.

At the two minute mark, Batum first noted that Rich Cho, the team president, Kemba Walker, and Michael Kidd-Gilchrist were there to meet with him in Dallas, Texas. Michael Jordan was on the phone to talk to Nic as well. He said that “Kemba talked first what he means to the team and to him and why he can’t leave the team. got so much better since he got there.”

He said that “Kemba talked first about what I mean to the team, what I mean to him, and why I can bring to this team and I can’t leave the team. They got so much better once I got there.”

Oh Kemba was used as a recruiting tool.
They will wage war against the Lamb but the Lamb will triumph them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings - and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers." Revelation 17:14 (NIV)
User avatar
Diop
Forum Mod - Hornets
Forum Mod - Hornets
Posts: 30,420
And1: 11,592
Joined: Jul 24, 2004
Location: House of Diop
 

Re: 120 Guarantees: the Nic Batum thread 

Post#1257 » by Diop » Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:46 am

catch20two wrote:
Diop wrote:
catch20two wrote:I don’t recall Kemba recruiting Batum. Big Al and MCW I remember because they all shared the same agent. Lamb maybe or maybe me and a few other posters spoke it into existence.

he flew out to help talk him into resigning.

At the two minute mark, Batum first noted that Rich Cho, the team president, Kemba Walker, and Michael Kidd-Gilchrist were there to meet with him in Dallas, Texas. Michael Jordan was on the phone to talk to Nic as well. He said that “Kemba talked first what he means to the team and to him and why he can’t leave the team. got so much better since he got there.”

He said that “Kemba talked first about what I mean to the team, what I mean to him, and why I can bring to this team and I can’t leave the team. They got so much better once I got there.”

Oh Kemba was used as a recruiting tool.

lol, ok catch, Kemba the real victim here.

“He’s been perfect for me,” Walker says of Batum,
Image
Splitta
Sophomore
Posts: 209
And1: 171
Joined: Oct 25, 2018

Re: 120 Guarantees: the Nic Batum thread 

Post#1258 » by Splitta » Tue Jan 29, 2019 2:16 pm

Per Bonnell's recent article, Batum is "just finding his way" and will play like a 24 million superstar in the 2nd half of season. Stay tuned and expect big things from the Frenchman!!! :nod:
euphorbus
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,734
And1: 376
Joined: Sep 28, 2015
 

Re: 120 Guarantees: the Nic Batum thread 

Post#1259 » by euphorbus » Tue Jan 29, 2019 4:42 pm

Splitta wrote:Per Bonnell's recent article, Batum is "just finding his way" and will play like a 24 million superstar in the 2nd half of season. Stay tuned and expect big things from the Frenchman!!! :nod:


Currently, he is next to last on the team in field goal attempts per 36 minutes. Only Biyombo has fewer attempts. On the other hand, he is second behind Willy in three-point FG%. Batum is eighth in 3-point attempts. Sarcasm aside, it is obvious what needs to happen here for the team to make the playoffs, if we are stuck with him after February 8.
User avatar
catch20two
RealGM
Posts: 21,401
And1: 4,647
Joined: Nov 04, 2012
       

Re: 120 Guarantees: the Nic Batum thread 

Post#1260 » by catch20two » Tue Jan 29, 2019 5:43 pm

Invisible Man.
They will wage war against the Lamb but the Lamb will triumph them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings - and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers." Revelation 17:14 (NIV)

Return to Charlotte Hornets