Lowe Piece on the Hornets

[yosemiteben]

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/good-charlotte-the-hornets-and-the-sliding-scale-of-nba-mediocrity/

Lots of nuggets in there. He talks like he practically had a sit down with every member of our FO.

[HornetJail]

Not trading 9 for all of those picks and then selecting Kaminsky with that pick set us back a long way. Those picks culd have netted us the next disgruntled star (Melo?)

[BlackOutBuzz]

The shopping of Vonleh + 9 to move up was interesting. We obviously weren't getting into Towns-Russell-Okafor territory, and I doubt anyone taken from 4-8 will be better than Frank + Batum, so the end result was solid.

I do remember there were rumblings of us trying to move up for Mudiay though.

[BlackOutBuzz]

Polk makes a point too about all those picks, did we really need a bunch of mid-round rookies? Rookies tend to suck, afterall, and we're definitely eyeing the playoffs this year.

[Mystical Apples]

Ben thanks for the link. These 2 excerpts from the piece explain why they may be schizophrenic as long as MJ owns the team:

"Agents have at times sidestepped Cho to chat directly with Jordan, according to league sources. The team has turned over almost its entire scouting and analytics departments in the past year."

and

"His family increasingly dominates the organization; his brother, Larry, is the team’s director of player personnel, and Jordan last year hired his daughter, Jasmine, to serve as coordinator of basketball operations."

[yosemiteben]

Not trading 9 for all of those picks and then selecting Kaminsky with that pick set us back a long way. Those picks culd have netted us the next disgruntled star (Melo?)

Meh, pretty strongly disagree here. I think it's interesting that BOS and CHA are in such similar situations yet CHA is the one who looks bad in this situation. I actually strongly prefer our roster to theirs, but we both have a lot of odd and end pieces, no huge contracts, a relatively young team with a relatively new coach, no stars, and a recent surprise playoff appearance. I don't see why CHA should be mocked for taking the player they wanted at 9 over all those assets, but BOS isn't mocked for trying to give up all those assets for the player they wanted at 9.

I look forward to seeing what BOS winds up doing with all those so-so picks, because I don't think they can form a core of a very attractive package.

[Mystical Apples]

did we really need a bunch of mid-round rookies? Rookies tend to suck, afterall.

Preach. Also Lowe is being a bit of revisionist here. His roster count assumes that was the goal or the end game. It's clear from all accounts Cho was gunning for Bellini along with Lin. Add in Frank and potential trades for Cody and that roster was looking full if everything fell into place.

[Mystical Apples]

Not trading 9 for all of those picks and then selecting Kaminsky with that pick set us back a long way. Those picks culd have netted us the next disgruntled star (Melo?)

No one was trading those lotto picks this year. Through 12-14 it was deep with projected starters. Given Charlotte's move to win over the next 3 years and their current roster that trade would've been a red flag to Batum and other potential FA

[yosemiteben]

Zach Lowe ‏@ZachLowe_NBA 23m23 minutes ago
One thing I should have made clear in CHA column, even though I've done so several times before: I was super pro-Lance signing.

Zach Lowe ‏@ZachLowe_NBA 23m23 minutes ago
Still think it was an easy risk-reward call given the contract structure. Didn't work out, but I liked the deal. Also liked chasing Hayward

[EwingSweatsALot]

Pretty much said what most have been saying here, that if the moves work they are wonderful, but if they don't then they have sacrificed our future tremendously. Hopefully we get some luck for the first time in our franchise.

The tidbits within the organization were more interesting. The fact Jordan's daughter is in the war room and I am assuming taking place in votes on what happens with the team is shocking to me. Maybe I'm being an **** sexist, she might know a **** ton about basketball and what it takes to build a team. But if that's the case, then she's better than 90% of what we have there.

[yosemiteben]

Agreed ESAL, that was largely my take away - as far as moves go, if it goes south we're f'ed, better pray Batum stays and Frank works out.

I thought the discussion of the FO dynamics made the article, though I have a healthy dose of skepticism as to how he could have gotten the full picture. Was everyone willing to talk to him?

Also, was I the only one that was surprised not to see even a joking reference at us making a run at Steph in 2017?

[Mystical Apples]

The fact Jordan's daughter is in the war room and I am assuming taking place in votes on what happens with the team is shocking to me. Maybe I'm being an **** sexist, she might know a **** ton about basketball and what it takes to build a team. But if that's the case, then she's better than 90% of what we have there.

It's not sexism, it's nepotism. For Lowe to get that level of detail from FO personnel is unusual given they are still employed. It speaks to understandable resent having 3 camps on different pages and the need for varying factions to defend their actions.

[Mystical Apples]

It'd be interesting to assign personnel moves to a certain segment of the FO. Like:

Lance : Jordan
Batum: analytics, Cho, Clifford influence
Kaminsky: analytics, Jordan
Lin: Clifford, Jordan
Hansbrough: Jordan, Jordan, JORDAN

[yosemiteben]

Arbitrarily assigning moves to various members of our FO made me almost leave the board last summer.

[JDR720]

It'd be interesting to assign personnel moves to a certain segment of the FO. Like:

Lance : Jordan
Batum: analytics, Cho, Clifford influence
Kaminsky: analytics, Jordan
Lin: Clifford, Jordan
Hansbrough: Jordan, Jordan, JORDAN

Clifford has said several times he was the one that wanted Lance, i also suspect he wanted Marv (stretch 4 for Alfense) and Rob (supposedly coached him before) too.

[EwingSweatsALot]

The fact Jordan's daughter is in the war room and I am assuming taking place in votes on what happens with the team is shocking to me. Maybe I'm being an **** sexist, she might know a **** ton about basketball and what it takes to build a team. But if that's the case, then she's better than 90% of what we have there.

It's not sexism, it's nepotism. For Lowe to get that level of detail from FO personnel is unusual given they are still employed. It speaks to understandable resent having 3 camps on different pages and the need for varying factions to defend their actions.

And here's my thing with nepotism. If he wants to hire his family and give them a title and a paycheck. I'm cool with that. It's his money. He can pay who he wants. I know a good bit of people whose family owns successful business and they are apart of that business. They have a VP title of something and they get a nice paycheck.

You wanna know what they don't do? Make **** important decisions about the business, which apparently Jordan's family does. I don't give a **** if he wants to hire them. Make up positions. Give them a healthy paycheck for tax purposes or whatever. Just don't make them decision makers. Give them zero power and don't give them an office. Let their office be a cabana in San Tropez that they got with the money you pay them.

[Mystical Apples]

Arbitrarily assigning moves to various members of our FO made me almost leave the board last summer.

Ok good to know wasn't on here then. Maybe a subject to avoid.

[fatlever]

That was a brutal read. I suspect Lowe was being overly nice in that article, while trying to get his main point across. Its been clear to most of us, and this reaffirms that belief, that this franchise has no direction, other than Michael Jordan's current whim. Jordan's whims seem to change every 2 years. He reacts to what he sees successful franchises doing, then tries to follow, except he is always too late to the game.

Lets be like the Thunder and tank for draft picks
Lets be like the Heat/Knicks and clear cap room to try and land a superstar (thank god that plan only lasted one summer ending in the failed DUST Chip)
Lets be like the Pacers/Grizzlies and grind out wins with defense
Lets be like the Warriors and shoot 3s and play smaller

[Eddie20]

Not trading 9 for all of those picks and then selecting Kaminsky with that pick set us back a long way. Those picks culd have netted us the next disgruntled star (Melo?)

Meh, pretty strongly disagree here. I think it's interesting that BOS and CHA are in such similar situations yet CHA is the one who looks bad in this situation. I actually strongly prefer our roster to theirs, but we both have a lot of odd and end pieces, no huge contracts, a relatively young team with a relatively new coach, no stars, and a recent surprise playoff appearance. I don't see why CHA should be mocked for taking the player they wanted at 9 over all those assets, but BOS isn't mocked for trying to give up all those assets for the player they wanted at 9.

I look forward to seeing what BOS winds up doing with all those so-so picks, because I don't think they can form a core of a very attractive package.

As a C's fan, I'm actually glad that the trade didn't go through. It was just too much for Winslow. However, the reason I think the Hornets are critizced for not accepting the trade is because they didn't take Winslow and passed on those picks for Kaminsky. A player very similar to the one you just acquired (Hawes) and recently lost (McRoberts). In addition, as reported by Lowe, we had a deal in place with the Hawks for #15, so we not only would've sent you guys the 4 1st rd picks, but whatever he had to give the Hawks for getting the #15 in the first place. Again, that's just too much.

If I'm a Hornets fan, I would much rather have Portis and Dekker (for example), plus the Nets pick next year (which is a Lopez injury away from being a top 5 pick), and a future 1st than I would Kaminsky. In fact, given the assets we were willing to give and the fact that you wanted a stretch 4 who can create offense in the high post, I'm really surprised something wasn't centered around Olynyk and multiple 1st picks for the #11.

[No-Man]

How in god's name you passed on 15th, 16th, Brooklyn future 1st (either 16' or 18') and either Memphis future pick or Minnesota's (likely 2 2nd round picks) for Frank?
Unreal