RealGM

Here's the list:

Kemba Walker
Bismack Biyombo
Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
Jeffrey Taylor
Cody Zeller
Noah Vonleh
PJ Hairston
Frank Kaminsky

I think you could put together an NBA championship team with players drafted after Chos picks. There are not only multiple busts in there and other picks heading towards busting, there is not a single grand slam pick like a Porzingis or a Giannis or a Draymond Green. The Warriors team we just played has 3 grand slam picks. I think there's a huge difference between an elite drafting front office and ours and Cho deserves the blame. From the early lotto picks to the second round, he has been a huge failure.

No

Honestly, some of this depends on if his hands were forced by the owner... I will definitely say this organizations drafting has been subpar.

MasterIchiro wrote:Here's the list:

Kemba Walker
Bismack Biyombo
Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
Jeffrey Taylor
Cody Zeller
Noah Vonleh
PJ Hairston
Frank Kaminsky

I think you could put together an NBA championship team with players drafted after Chos picks. There are not only multiple busts in there and other picks heading towards busting, there is not a single grand slam pick like a Porzingis or a Giannis or a Draymond Green. The Warriors team we just played has 3 grand slam picks. I think there's a huge difference between an elite drafting front office and ours and Cho deserves the blame. From the early lotto picks to the second round, he has been a huge failure.

There is a huge difference, but an organization drafts a player not a single person. The blame is organizational - it's on Cho, MJ, our scouts, our coaches, and our analytics staff. Firing Rich Cho won't improve things much unless we can bring in someone else that has an impressive enough network to bring in a more effective scouting and analytics staff along with him/her.

LofJ wrote:

MasterIchiro wrote:Here's the list:

Kemba Walker
Bismack Biyombo
Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
Jeffrey Taylor
Cody Zeller
Noah Vonleh
PJ Hairston
Frank Kaminsky

I think you could put together an NBA championship team with players drafted after Chos picks. There are not only multiple busts in there and other picks heading towards busting, there is not a single grand slam pick like a Porzingis or a Giannis or a Draymond Green. The Warriors team we just played has 3 grand slam picks. I think there's a huge difference between an elite drafting front office and ours and Cho deserves the blame. From the early lotto picks to the second round, he has been a huge failure.

There is a huge difference, but an organization drafts a player not a single person. The blame is organizational - it's on Cho, MJ, our scouts, our coaches, and our analytics staff. Firing Rich Cho won't improve things much unless we can bring in someone else that has an impressive enough network to bring in a more effective scouting and analytics staff along with him/her.

Yet not firing Cho keeps the very same system in place.

StitchJones wrote:Honestly, some of this depends on if his hands were forced by the owner... I will definitely say this organizations drafting has been subpar.

I believe if a GM is unable to negotiate autonomy, it falls on his lack of credibility and respect from ownership. Very weak trait.

MasterIchiro wrote:Yet not firing Cho keeps the very same system in place.

You are ignoring (or are unaware of) the reshuffling that has taken place in our FO and our scouting department over the last 12 - 18 months.

I think this is a fair topic, but we've had this argument so many times on here that I'm not going to put a lot of effort into it.

yosemiteben wrote:

MasterIchiro wrote:Yet not firing Cho keeps the very same system in place.

You are ignoring (or are unaware of) the reshuffling that has taken place in our FO and our scouting department over the last 12 - 18 months.

Hired by whom?

MasterIchiro wrote:

LofJ wrote:

MasterIchiro wrote:Here's the list:

Kemba Walker
Bismack Biyombo
Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
Jeffrey Taylor
Cody Zeller
Noah Vonleh
PJ Hairston
Frank Kaminsky

I think you could put together an NBA championship team with players drafted after Chos picks. There are not only multiple busts in there and other picks heading towards busting, there is not a single grand slam pick like a Porzingis or a Giannis or a Draymond Green. The Warriors team we just played has 3 grand slam picks. I think there's a huge difference between an elite drafting front office and ours and Cho deserves the blame. From the early lotto picks to the second round, he has been a huge failure.

There is a huge difference, but an organization drafts a player not a single person. The blame is organizational - it's on Cho, MJ, our scouts, our coaches, and our analytics staff. Firing Rich Cho won't improve things much unless we can bring in someone else that has an impressive enough network to bring in a more effective scouting and analytics staff along with him/her.

Yet not firing Cho keeps the very same system in place.

You're glossing over the history of this organization. It's in the best position it's been in since George Shinn left town.

Are we an elite organization? No, we certainly aren't. But you have to take gradual steps to get to that level. And ultimately that's on MJ. He's managed to bring us from laughing stock of the league to mediocre. Taking the next step will likely necessitate us finding an upgrade over Cho, but to be able to hire that person we need organizational credibility. We're building that right now, but it takes time.

LofJ wrote:

MasterIchiro wrote:

LofJ wrote:
There is a huge difference, but an organization drafts a player not a single person. The blame is organizational - it's on Cho, MJ, our scouts, our coaches, and our analytics staff. Firing Rich Cho won't improve things much unless we can bring in someone else that has an impressive enough network to bring in a more effective scouting and analytics staff along with him/her.

Yet not firing Cho keeps the very same system in place.

You're glossing over the history of this organization. It's in the best position it's been in since George Shinn left town.

Are we an elite organization? No, we certainly aren't. But you have to take gradual steps to get to that level. And ultimately that's on MJ. He's managed to bring us from laughing stock of the league to mediocre. Taking the next step will likely necessitate us finding an upgrade over Cho, but to be able to hire that person we need organizational credibility. We're building that right now, but it takes time.

He has had a truckload of high draft picks and has not produced one all star. Plenty of other laughing stocks have either climbed out or drafted all stars or future surefire all stars in that time span. If the next phase is to upgrade Cho, when is a good time to do it?

MasterIchiro wrote:

yosemiteben wrote:

MasterIchiro wrote:Yet not firing Cho keeps the very same system in place.

You are ignoring (or are unaware of) the reshuffling that has taken place in our FO and our scouting department over the last 12 - 18 months.

Hired by whom?

In summer of 2014 we parted with Bickerstaff and hired Chad Buchanan. In the last couple years we've had almost complete turnover in our scouting department.

It's tough to ask this question and analyze pre-2014 draft picks when we don't know what the relationship actually was between Cho and Bickerstaff.

yosemiteben wrote:

MasterIchiro wrote:

yosemiteben wrote:You are ignoring (or are unaware of) the reshuffling that has taken place in our FO and our scouting department over the last 12 - 18 months.

Hired by whom?

In summer of 2014 we parted with Bickerstaff and hired Chad Buchanan. In the last couple years we've had almost complete turnover in our scouting department.

Hired by?

MasterIchiro wrote:

yosemiteben wrote:

MasterIchiro wrote:
Hired by whom?

In summer of 2014 we parted with Bickerstaff and hired Chad Buchanan. In the last couple years we've had almost complete turnover in our scouting department.

Hired by?

The Hornets. I don't get your point.

yosemiteben wrote:

MasterIchiro wrote:

yosemiteben wrote:In summer of 2014 we parted with Bickerstaff and hired Chad Buchanan. In the last couple years we've had almost complete turnover in our scouting department.

Hired by?

The Hornets. I don't get your point.

Hired by Cho. Selected and profiled by Chos staff. Signed off by MJ but engineered by Cho and Chos front office.

MasterIchiro wrote:

yosemiteben wrote:

MasterIchiro wrote:
Hired by?

The Hornets. I don't get your point.

Hired by Cho. Selected and profiled by Chos staff. Signed off by MJ but engineered by Cho and Chos front office.

Right, and this is the first time this has happened, so this is hardly a perpetuation of an existing system. We had a distinctive shift in 2014 away from Bickerstaff. Let Bickerstaff go, hired new assistant GM, and completely turned over scouting.

Can you find evidence of FO hirings made by Cho between the time he was hired and the time Bickerstaff was let go?

MasterIchiro wrote:

LofJ wrote:

MasterIchiro wrote:
Yet not firing Cho keeps the very same system in place.

You're glossing over the history of this organization. It's in the best position it's been in since George Shinn left town.

Are we an elite organization? No, we certainly aren't. But you have to take gradual steps to get to that level. And ultimately that's on MJ. He's managed to bring us from laughing stock of the league to mediocre. Taking the next step will likely necessitate us finding an upgrade over Cho, but to be able to hire that person we need organizational credibility. We're building that right now, but it takes time.

He has had a truckload of high draft picks and has not produced one all star. Plenty of other laughing stocks have either climbed out or drafted all stars or future surefire all stars in that time span. If the next phase is to upgrade Cho, when is a good time to do it?

Which one's? The Wizards who moved up in the draft twice? Or the Bucks who are in a similar position to us?

Three things that I want to say regarding this..

1) We definitely failed when trying to re-create Cho's dream of the OKC model. Drafting young athletic guys, who lack some basketball skills, created a team incapable of playing on offense in this league. Right now our offense is thriving, yet only one of the top6 players in minutes played is our own home-grown guy. The rest are free agent signings or came via trade. Kemba-Hendo-MKG-Zeller-Biz looked absolutely ugly. Not only did we miss on a couple of picks, they collectively didn't make all that much sense.

2) The team has certainly produced some misses in the draft. Hard to argue that. Question is whether it's a thing of player development or the wrong selections. Draymond wouldn't become Draymond at Charlotte.

3) Jordan seems to have too big of a say in things. He's to be blamed just as much as Cho is.

But, yeah, I'd say that if I were the owner and he had made these moves without me interfering, I would consider firing him (which depends on the contract he's on, how close it is to ending, etc.)

I don't think the Zeller pick was bad, it was a decent choice in a bad draft. A lot of teams missed on international unknowns Antetokounmpo and Gobert, but aside from that I don't see any clear upgrades. Some decent players though: Schroder, Dieng, Olynyk, Noel (who was injured at the time, and we were thinking playoffs), but those guys are about even-level at best.

He's also outplayed two of the three picked before him.

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This poll feels like timely trolling. Totally loaded question.

It's like asking a guy if he still beats his wife.

BlackOutBuzz wrote:I don't think the Zeller pick was bad, it was a decent choice in a bad draft. A lot of teams missed on international unknowns Antetokounmpo and Gobert, but aside from that I don't see any clear upgrades. Some decent players though: Schroder, Dieng, Olynyk, Noel (who was injured at the time, and we were thinking playoffs), but those guys are about even-level at best.

He's also outplayed two of the three picked before him.

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My point is he missed out on players not just in the Zeller draft but in all of them and failed to hit a grand slam. GSW hit on Curry, Thompson and Draymond Green.

If we continue with this Cho guy are we going to reverse course and hit on at least one all-star? His track record gives you confidence?