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Continued from Part 1: http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=1384690&start=1980#start_here

Sik Infant wrote:Whiteside.

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I think he would bring a great deal of versatility to our squad. That along with keeping Williams would give us a good top 4 that could cover lots of scenarios. Actually having a rim protector on the squad would really boost what we can do late in games when up plus having the three we have now gives us options when down. I feel like that is the weakness of our PF/C spot right now and it is obvious when you watch the games that we scare nobody and have to help too much. They always talked about how good MKG was at recoding under control because of how much he had to help down and now not having guys who are good at that creates easy looks for teams.

jdm3 wrote:

Sik Infant wrote:Whiteside.

.

I think he would bring a great deal of versatility to our squad. That along with keeping Williams would give us a good top 4 that could cover lots of scenarios. Actually having a rim protector on the squad would really boost what we can do late in games when up plus having the three we have now gives us options when down. I feel like that is the weakness of our PF/C spot right now and it is obvious when you watch the games that we scare nobody and have to help too much. They always talked about how good MKG was at recoding under control because of how much he had to help down and now not having guys who are good at that creates easy looks for teams.

I am on the anti Whiteside bangwagon for sure. If you actually watch him play he is awful at everything except being big. His defensive stats are deceptive he is always chasing blocks so he gets out of position, gives up bunnies etc. He has 14 career assists or something, which is bordering on worst passer ever status. When teams double in the post he looks bewildered and just turns the ball over, he turns the ball over at a extremely high rate. He also is getting in public fued's with his coach and wade and bosh about playing team basketball and caring about winning. Idk after the Lance debacle don't want to take that on anymore, also due to the fact that we would probably have to give him the max to retain him.

Whiteside has some pretty big holes in his game that we would need him to address in order to be fully utilized in our system. The thing thats scary is that if he doesn't and he ends up with a similar role to how he is being used in Miami he might go off the rails and be a huge distraction. Hes still young so there is no reason he can't improve, but its hard to tell with a guy like that. I'm not so sure how much I'd want to risk it. I'd be hesitant to sign him to a deal any longer than 3 years with a team option for the third year. Basically the Lance deal but with a higher yearly salary. If we did land him and resign Batum we would have the potential the be really good, though. Imagine...

Kemba, Batum, MKG, Frank, Whiteside
Lin, Lamb, PJ, Marv, Cody

Braggins wrote:Whiteside has some pretty big holes in his game that we would need him to address in order to be fully utilized in our system. The thing thats scary is that if he doesn't and he ends up with a similar role to how he is being used in Miami he might go off the rails and be a huge distraction. Hes still young so there is no reason he can't improve, but its hard to tell with a guy like that. I'm not so sure how much I'd want to risk it. I'd be hesitant to sign him to a deal any longer than 3 years with a team option for the third year. Basically the Lance deal but with a higher yearly salary. If we did land him and resign Batum we would have the potential the be really good, though. Imagine...

Kemba, Batum, MKG, Frank, Whiteside
Lin, Lamb, PJ, Marv, Cody

Yeah, I mean I just don't know why anyone offers Whiteside 20 mil per year, when they could try to get a Ezili level player who IMO is a lot better than Whiteside at the moment for 10-12 mil per year. I would be surprised to see Warriors let Ezili walk though.

I bet Ezeli gets more than 10-12 mil, but I agree with your point.

Braggins wrote:I bet Ezeli gets more than 10-12 mil, but I agree with your point.

I see your points and there are holes in his game but if there were not we could not even dream of landing him. It is more that I would like a player with his defensive skill set and athletic ability. Does not have to be him but somebody like him. If we could add a true defensive player who can cause people to turn back from their drives.

jdm3 wrote:

Braggins wrote:I bet Ezeli gets more than 10-12 mil, but I agree with your point.

I see your points and there are holes in his game but if there were not we could not even dream of landing him. It is more that I would like a player with his defensive skill set and athletic ability. Does not have to be him but somebody like him. If we could add a true defensive player who can cause people to turn back from their drives.

I hear ya. I've been intrigued with Whiteside all year. I wouldn't be worried about his game at all if it wasn't for his past attitude issues. I would be cautiously optimistic if we signed him. The potential is insane.

I agree that we need someone like that. I wish Ian Mihimni was a little younger. I would throw a pretty solid offer his way if he wasn't already 29.

I'd be ok with Festus too, but I have a feeling his value is getting inflated by being on Golden State.

Festus is basically a 6'11 Bismack. If I was okay giving Biz $10M, which I was, I'm just fine shelling out that money to Ezeli. Only problem is that Ezeli is going to be 27 years old by the time next season starts. He's a full three years older than Bismack, but he has championship experience, so it evens out for me.

Braggins wrote:

jdm3 wrote:

Braggins wrote:I bet Ezeli gets more than 10-12 mil, but I agree with your point.

I see your points and there are holes in his game but if there were not we could not even dream of landing him. It is more that I would like a player with his defensive skill set and athletic ability. Does not have to be him but somebody like him. If we could add a true defensive player who can cause people to turn back from their drives.

I hear ya. I've been intrigued with Whiteside all year. I wouldn't be worried about his game at all if it wasn't for his past attitude issues. I would be cautiously optimistic if we signed him. The potential is insane.

I agree that we need someone like that. I wish Ian Mihimni was a little younger. I would throw a pretty solid offer his way if he wasn't already 29.

I'd be ok with Festus too, but I have a feeling his value is getting inflated by being on Golden State.

I wish we had drafted Myles Turner instead of Frank Kaminsky.


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not really interested in Whiteside. I am looking for us to add more two-way players and less one-dimensional players.

I also don't think its possible to have a league average (or better) offense with both MKG and Whiteside logging heavy minutes together.

fatlever wrote:not really interested in Whiteside. I am looking for us to add more two-way players and less one-dimensional players.

I also don't think its possible to have a league average (or better) offense with both MKG and Whiteside logging heavy minutes together.

I really don't know how I feel about Whiteside. Especially after Lance, I am pretty cautious with players with a history of immaturity. What happens when he signs the $20M+/year contract he's basically guaranteed to get from some team next summer? Does he completely quit working on his game and regress into a rich man's Javale McGee? He's obviously an extremely good talent. The guy averages a 15/14 with 5 blocks per 36 minutes, but I'd have a much greater peace of mind giving Festus Ezeli $10M a year than giving Whiteside $20M.

And I would stagger the rotations so that both players play about 30 minutes a game- 18 minutes with MKG and no Whiteside/Ezeli, 18 minutes with Whiteside/Ezeli and no MKG, and 12 minutes with both MKG and Whiteside/Ezeli. That way, there's no period where our defense just goes to complete ****, but there's some time where our defense will be super good and we can stretch the floor with Kemba, Batum, and Frank with the two defenders.

I'm not against signing Whiteside as much as I was before the season started, but there is a lot more risk than some of you guys want to believe.

Personally, I'd be interested in what the Hornets could do with trades.

I don’t want Whiteside here.

1. Gaudy rebound and block numbers isn’t really the same thing as defense or rim protection. Yosemiteben talked about this in the last trade thread. Keeping opponents EFG% low near the rim is the stat for rim protection. In any event this team is OK at that, even if particular players (I’m looking at you Al) tend to suck at it.

2. Whiteside can’t pass. If you ever thought that Al was bad … well he’s massively better at passing than Whiteside ever has been. Not only is that a huge hole in his game in a normal sense, but for Cliff that’s going to be an even bigger problem, which would be reflected in his playing time.

3. Dude has the potential to be Lance 2.0. I think that we’ve already proven that one guy really can tank team chemistry. Don’t want to see that happen again.

4. He’s going to cost FAR more than he’s worth on the market next year. If we have to overpay we would be better off to overpay a guy who makes his teammates better (Batum) rather than someone that looks like he might be a good individual talent.


Trade wise I've been having the worst time trying to make fake trades this year. Anyone else having this problem?

Vanderbilt_Grad wrote:Trade wise I've been having the worst time trying to make fake trades this year. Anyone else having this problem?

I feel you haha. I feel like I've exhausted every Al for Hibbert, Al for Robin Lopez (not Brook), or Al for Eric Gordon trade I can think of

What would everyone think of Kevin Love. If we stay around where we are and Cleveland looks to move him for something else to get away from his contact could we make an offer. I do not think he would command a ton of assets because they have devalued him through his usage.

I am not sold on him as a winning player but I might risk the gamble for cheap. The things I have heard have them looking for offense and a stretch 4 who will hustle and play their role. This could be a gamble to get a star under control on our team. It would eat a lot of our cap for next season but would ensure we get something out of it.

Al, Daniels and Williams protected 1st for Love and Cunningham

A lot of that depends on what his value really is and if we need to include a protected pick. Not sure how I feel because like I said I am not sure he is a winner but it may be worth a gamble to see if Cliff can cover his defensive flaws and make use of his offensive ability.

Marvin has grown as one of my favorite players this season. But you can count me in to a trade that include him for Love. Love is worth it for a gamble.

I like Love in theory, but actually making a trade for him is pretty difficult given his salary and Cleveland's desire got get something impressive back for him.

Defense would also take a huge hit as both Marvin and Kaminsky are both better defenders.

I think a big body that can rebound/defend is what this team needs the most. If Phoenix is willing to give up a pick to move Chandler and can find a third team to send him to we should consider sending Al to them. There aren't many teams in a spot where they'd be willing to take on Chandler's salary, but I think maybe these three would consider it if they liked the pick enough.

Denver: Hickson
Portland: Plumlee
Dallas: Dalembert/McGee

Yeah, no way we have enough to offer for love IMO. You can 1000% win with love as your best player. I think people forget how good this guy was in Minnesota. His last year he ha like a +7.7 +- per 100 possessions which is elite and that was with huge injuries no bench Rubio being the worst shooting pg in NBA history and rick adelman effectively in idgaf mode and retired at the end of the year. Love and LeBron play the same position and like to work on same places in the court is the problem. Love was lethal in high pick and roll in Minnesota also lethal on the block, he doesn't get to do any of that anymore. Love also used to be a great facilitator off of defensive rebounds, he was looking like Cam throwing those outlets to Corey Brewer. If you put love on a team like Detroit I think he is one of the 10 best players in nba again and Detroit is sick. Love is the perfect complement to a big like Drummond


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