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We Want the Monk: The Malik Monk Thread

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Re: We Want the Monk: The Malik Monk Thread 

Post#1581 » by euphorbus » Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:46 am

amcoolio wrote:He..was apparently clubbing and not taking covid seriously this season which made him miss training camp.


Do you have evidence for that, or did you pull it off social media somewhere?
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Re: We Want the Monk: The Malik Monk Thread 

Post#1582 » by euphorbus » Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:49 am

SWedd523 wrote:At what point does Monk take any responsibility whatsoever?


Responsibility for what, exactly? He already was docked for his violation of the drug use rules in the NBA.

The one game he appeared in, he was certainly ready to play. He could have been better, but a little time in the film room never hurt anyone.
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Re: We Want the Monk: The Malik Monk Thread 

Post#1583 » by luciano-davidwesley » Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:07 am

euphorbus wrote:
SWedd523 wrote:At what point does Monk take any responsibility whatsoever?


Responsibility for what, exactly? He already was docked for his violation of the drug use rules in the NBA.

The one game he appeared in, he was certainly ready to play. He could have been better, but a little time in the film room never hurt anyone.


The moment Monk decided to snort coke during his purple patch is when all sympathy for him should have been eliminated. And judging by how the organisation has treated him since then that looks like it is the case.
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Re: We Want the Monk: The Malik Monk Thread 

Post#1584 » by SWedd523 » Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:15 am

euphorbus wrote:
SWedd523 wrote:At what point does Monk take any responsibility whatsoever?


Responsibility for what, exactly? He already was docked for his violation of the drug use rules in the NBA.

The one game he appeared in, he was certainly ready to play. He could have been better, but a little time in the film room never hurt anyone.

You seem to have this entire narrative built around the organization going out of their way to **** Monk over

Is it not also possible that he isn't doing what is required behind the public face to get back on the floor?

Do you think JB is playing the Martin twins out of spite?

Isn't it more likely that they've earned PT and Monk hasn't?
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Re: We Want the Monk: The Malik Monk Thread 

Post#1585 » by Diop » Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:31 am

we all wish Monk would explode into a star scorer, no one wants him to fail.

it starts in training and practice, get the defensive and offensive schemes down, destroy the competition, show you will play balls out and he will get minutes.

unfortunately we have a lot of wings and everyone has to fight for minutes
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Re: We Want the Monk: The Malik Monk Thread 

Post#1586 » by DY_nasty » Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:27 am

luciano-davidwesley wrote:
euphorbus wrote:
SWedd523 wrote:At what point does Monk take any responsibility whatsoever?


Responsibility for what, exactly? He already was docked for his violation of the drug use rules in the NBA.

The one game he appeared in, he was certainly ready to play. He could have been better, but a little time in the film room never hurt anyone.


The moment Monk decided to snort coke during his purple patch is when all sympathy for him should have been eliminated. And judging by how the organisation has treated him since then that looks like it is the case.

yeah no - if that's a real thing the player's association would be having a field day dragging the entire organization through the dirt. this isn't college hopes. and the moral grandstanding only exists for talking heads on daytime sports networks.

there are coaches, GMs, players, etc with drug charges and worse. using that against someone past the documented extent of their punishment and appeals process is far, far more damaging than the initial violation itself.
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Re: We Want the Monk: The Malik Monk Thread 

Post#1587 » by DY_nasty » Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:28 am

Diop wrote:we all wish Monk would explode into a star scorer, no one wants him to fail.

it starts in training and practice, get the defensive and offensive schemes down, destroy the competition, show you will play balls out and he will get minutes.

unfortunately we have a lot of wings and everyone has to fight for minutes

the problem is they clearly don't

until someone gets a better explanation as to why devonte is comfortably getting 30+ minutes a night while playing like trash, pj can show up a mess and get a ridiculous usage rate, miles and his friends can shoot videos where they're playing with masks instead of wearing them - then yal gotta do better than "just work hard and do the right thing". its not even just about monk either really.
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Re: We Want the Monk: The Malik Monk Thread 

Post#1588 » by BigSlam » Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:57 am

DY_nasty wrote:
Diop wrote:we all wish Monk would explode into a star scorer, no one wants him to fail.

it starts in training and practice, get the defensive and offensive schemes down, destroy the competition, show you will play balls out and he will get minutes.

unfortunately we have a lot of wings and everyone has to fight for minutes

the problem is they clearly don't

until someone gets a better explanation as to why devonte is comfortably getting 30+ minutes a night while playing like trash, pj can show up a mess and get a ridiculous usage rate, miles and his friends can shoot videos where they're playing with masks instead of wearing them - then yal gotta do better than "just work hard and do the right thing". its not even just about monk either really.

I agree - I don’t think whatever the cause for his suspension was is the reason he’s not in the rotation. I seriously doubt he’s being “punished” for that.

What is your theory on why Monk isn’t getting any PT?

There has to be a reason.
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Re: We Want the Monk: The Malik Monk Thread 

Post#1589 » by DY_nasty » Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:13 am

BigSlam wrote:
DY_nasty wrote:
Diop wrote:we all wish Monk would explode into a star scorer, no one wants him to fail.

it starts in training and practice, get the defensive and offensive schemes down, destroy the competition, show you will play balls out and he will get minutes.

unfortunately we have a lot of wings and everyone has to fight for minutes

the problem is they clearly don't

until someone gets a better explanation as to why devonte is comfortably getting 30+ minutes a night while playing like trash, pj can show up a mess and get a ridiculous usage rate, miles and his friends can shoot videos where they're playing with masks instead of wearing them - then yal gotta do better than "just work hard and do the right thing". its not even just about monk either really.

I agree - I don’t think whatever the cause for his suspension was is the reason he’s not in the rotation. I seriously doubt he’s being “punished” for that.

What is your theory on why Monk isn’t getting any PT?

There has to be a reason.

i don't have one other than covid hitting him hard (why i posted the nassir little article that referenced others a while back) and a lack of camp not giving him (everyone really) the ability to show the staff how they've improved/regressed

i just can't watch JB speak both ways on things on a regular basis then turn around a say "monk must be doing _____ and that's why he's not playing. monk must do better." that's kind of a jacked up definitive statement to make. especially when most of the guys logging minutes have done things which are brought up and they get more minutes and freedom on the court as a result.

I'll also pull on a recent example: https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bacondw01/gamelog/2020/

bacon played himself out of the starting rotation and off the court entirely just last year. it was right at the 10 games mark as well. so we've been here before - last year actually. we're running the 2 pg starting lineup because bacon failed to step up when filling lamb's shoes. he took big steps back and lost his job entirely. JB was ready to run an unconventional lineup with the hot hand to get his team going.

so while this is the monk thread and i've reached in many different directions to paint this picture.... i'm mainly saying that if JB has done what he has in the past, then there should be more than a few opportunities open. and not just for monk.
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Re: We Want the Monk: The Malik Monk Thread 

Post#1590 » by SWedd523 » Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:51 am

DY_nasty wrote:
Diop wrote:we all wish Monk would explode into a star scorer, no one wants him to fail.

it starts in training and practice, get the defensive and offensive schemes down, destroy the competition, show you will play balls out and he will get minutes.

unfortunately we have a lot of wings and everyone has to fight for minutes

the problem is they clearly don't

until someone gets a better explanation as to why devonte is comfortably getting 30+ minutes a night while playing like trash, pj can show up a mess and get a ridiculous usage rate, miles and his friends can shoot videos where they're playing with masks instead of wearing them - then yal gotta do better than "just work hard and do the right thing". its not even just about monk either really.

It seems simple to me

Devonte is the only PG on the roster not named Lamelo Ball

He's coming off a season in which he was one of the better players at his position in the league.

PJ is the only big guy on the roster not named Bismark

He's coming off a very impressive rookie season.

Monk has generally underwhelmed when he's seen floor time. Doesn't really shoot that well, can't really play defense, not a very good passer or scorer in general.

He has to fight for minutes with Rozier, Melo, both Martin twins, and Hayward if he gets any spot 2 minutes

Rozier is a much better scorer than Monk, Melo is the star rookie, and the Martin twins almost always have a positive impact when they're on the floor and have a well-defined function in the rotation.

JB has shown a willingness to play rookies, second rounders, and even undrafted guys. Hell, at the beginning of the year dudes were complaining because he was giving floor time to TOO MANY guys

Throughout it all, Monk can't seem to get any minutes.

I wonder (sarcasm) if it has anything to do with how he performs in practice, meetings, film study, etc compared to his peers?

Occam's Razor and all that
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Re: We Want the Monk: The Malik Monk Thread 

Post#1591 » by DY_nasty » Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:54 am

eh, Rozier only plays off of Graham because Graham can't play off of rozier (or anyone for that matter).... but that's another tangent for another thread

still can't believe we're playing "we need x guy on the court" when someone at every position this year has played poorly. whether that position is loaded (guard) or whether he could care less if we get killed at that position (anything in the paint).

all i've been saying the last few pages now is that you guys need to explain how playing poorly, being irresponsible, not playing defense gets a pass for guys now when previously it didn't and also staggering minutes to reduce injuries was a thing until it wasn't.

again - not just in support of monk, but in general. so far its just a bunch of talking in circles lol. people keep bringing up the twins but they're really the only players on the team that get more minutes when they play well and see less when they don't on a consistent basis. if everyone was held to the same standards the way those guys are, then maybe others would play hard as hard as they do.
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Re: We Want the Monk: The Malik Monk Thread 

Post#1592 » by SWedd523 » Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:13 am

Like how is it talking in circles?

The team needs a primary ball handler. The team really has one veteran guy capable of fulfilling that role...........Devonte

Thus.... his minutes stay relatively steady.

PJ is averaging less minutes this year (despite less front court depth) than he did last year as a rookie. He's clearly not being force fed. His minutes are as much a product of having no other healthy NBA quality big man on the roster as they are him being force fed.

Miles has seen a roughly 17% drop in minutes compared to last year. Don't really understand why you keep bringing him up.

There is no circular argument. Monk is a shooter who shot 28% from deep last year, so why give him any of Rozier's minutes? He's never shown to be a capable ball handler or passer, so why give him any of Devonte's minutes (or Melo's)? He hasn't shown any ability to play defense, so why give him Martin minutes?

The dude is a doo doo player


What I'm really gathering here is that you're using Monk as a prop for your INTENSE anti-Devonte tilt. You're getting dangerously close to anti-JMAC here bro.

You take minutes from Devonte and they aren't going to Monk lol... they're going to Ball which, to no one's surprise, has been the case since about Game #4.


I'd like to see anyone give a solid answer to: Who is Monk going to realistically take minutes from?
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Re: We Want the Monk: The Malik Monk Thread 

Post#1593 » by JMAC3 » Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:33 pm

I think the biggest thing with Monk is context. Last year he started the season playing about 20 mpg, but he did start to get more playing time towards the last 10-15 games of the season and he started playing better before the suspension. So what changed last year?

We bought out MKG and Marvin opening up minutes and causing us to play Miles more at the 4, PJ more at the 5. Hence opening up more minutes for Guards and Wings.

We switched to playing younger guys after the cut and we also stopped giving minutes to Batum and Bacon down the stretch.

Monk GP Jan (11) and Feb (9)
Bacon GP Jan (10) and Feb (3)
Batum GP Jan (6) and Feb (0)

Lastly, we had no playmakers at this point. We had Graham, Terry, Martin Twins and Monk so we needed Monk's playmaking and scoring more than we needed defense.

Transition to this season and we have more talent at the guard spot, we have more playmaking/Scoring on offense adding in LaMelo and Gordon and also Martin Twins being more established this year . So we do not need as much of what Monk brings to the table, we need more defense, size and hustle which are not his strong suits. Whereas last year we were desperate for his offensive traits and we also had a very small roster after buy outs and benching a few of our guards.

This is not to say Monk can not find a groove and earn his way back to the court, but flat out he has never shown to be better than Graham. Graham can't make a shot right now and is shooting 30% from three, last year Monk shot 28% from three for the year... I believe at the very least the team will showcase him at some point just to drive up his trade value. Or he may find minutes due to Quarantine protocols at some point.
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Re: We Want the Monk: The Malik Monk Thread 

Post#1594 » by Rays Pompadour » Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:56 pm

I have nothing to add to Monk's situation, but at some point his dilemma may become a distraction. The team will have to take action at some point. If he's being exiled to Siberia, then cut or trade. If his health is still a big question mark, then IR may be an option.

Lack of explanation from the organization is making it tough to know how it's going to end for a player with such potential. But it will end, and maybe soon. I just hope it isn't to the detriment of the franchise or the player.
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Re: We Want the Monk: The Malik Monk Thread 

Post#1595 » by Rich4114 » Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:15 am

I get the impression the reason for Monk not playing is less complicated than we think. Martin Twins earned spots in the rotation due to how they came into and performed in training camp and it would take one of them losing that spot (or another guard or an injury) to open up the door for Monk to get an opportunity to earn a spot and keep it. But here’s where I don’t agree with it - Monk is more talented than the Martin twins. There’s also a chance he would out perform Terry or Devonte as well given their roles. I think you look at talent and you find a way to get that talent on the court. It’s going to eventually happen, but until it does it’ll be questionable and frustrating.
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Re: We Want the Monk: The Malik Monk Thread 

Post#1596 » by euphorbus » Tue Jan 12, 2021 5:06 am

BigSlam wrote:What is your theory on why Monk isn’t getting any PT?

There has to be a reason.


No theory, only a guess. He may have told Coach Borrego publicly or privately, "Play me or trade me." To which the coach responded, "I will do neither. You can sit on the bench until hell freezes over, or the season ends, whichever comes first." As I said before, coaches are not exactly known for their flexibility when it comes to player management, unless you are LeBron James. In that case, you can and will get fired if you cross swords with King James.

The other thought goes back to what a poster once said about Coach Steve Clifford, to wit, that he decides at the beginning of the season who can help him win and who cannot. If you are in the latter group, you are essentially forgotten unless and until someone gets injured.

That happened to Tyler Hansbrough. He played extensively during a crucial West Coast trip in the 2015-16 season, and helped keep the Hornets in the playoff hunt. But before and after that, he was a forgotten man. Did the coach care? Did Tyler get rewarded for being prepared and coming through in a pinch? Hell, no.
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Re: We Want the Monk: The Malik Monk Thread 

Post#1597 » by euphorbus » Tue Jan 12, 2021 5:14 am

I will add one other consideration concerning Monk's career with the Hornets. He was originally tabbed to be a point guard, successor to Kemba Walker. As I pointed out four years ago, it takes a long time to learn to play point guard. (LaMelo Ball is a brilliant exception.) Monk is a better player for having learned those skills, but I see him more as a shooting guard, in the role of a player like Sweet Lou Williams. That's why, as a fan, it is so disappointing not to see with he can do side by side with LaMelo.
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Re: We Want the Monk: The Malik Monk Thread 

Post#1598 » by predators » Tue Jan 12, 2021 5:42 am

euphorbus wrote:
BigSlam wrote:What is your theory on why Monk isn’t getting any PT?

There has to be a reason.


No theory, only a guess. He may have told Coach Borrego publicly or privately, "Play me or trade me." To which the coach responded, "I will do neither. You can sit on the bench until hell freezes over, or the season ends, whichever comes first." As I said before, coaches are not exactly known for their flexibility when it comes to player management, unless you are LeBron James. In that case, you can and will get fired if you cross swords with King James.

The other thought goes back to what a poster once said about Coach Steve Clifford, to wit, that he decides at the beginning of the season who can help him win and who cannot. If you are in the latter group, you are essentially forgotten unless and until someone gets injured.

That happened to Tyler Hansbrough. He played extensively during a crucial West Coast trip in the 2015-16 season, and helped keep the Hornets in the playoff hunt. But before and after that, he was a forgotten man. Did the coach care? Did Tyler get rewarded for being prepared and coming through in a pinch? Hell, no.


Hansborough legiatemately never played in the NBA again after that season.

Though I would only be moderately surprised if Monk is in China/Europe in the next 3 season. I might be surprised if he made an all star team before 30 than if he were out of the league before 30.
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Re: We Want the Monk: The Malik Monk Thread 

Post#1599 » by GoBobs » Tue Jan 12, 2021 3:42 pm

I would like to see him in the rotation. I don't know who I want to see less. Martian twins are playing great and are still really underrated. Haywood is playing great. Rozier is playing great. Ball has been really good.

Pretty sure if Monk is grinding and showing something in practice he is going to eventually get his chance though. As we go along we will probably have some injuries which is part of a normal season.
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Re: We Want the Monk: The Malik Monk Thread 

Post#1600 » by Chapelchilla » Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:04 pm

Monk has loose handles, is a streaking shooter, was not coached hard in HS or college, has had bad personal habits, got COVID and is recovering and is 3 inches too short to excel at his best position. That's why he doesn't play much.
I hope he can seize the next opportunity he gets because he may be running short of them. Here or elsewhere.

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