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We Want the Monk: The Malik Monk Thread

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Re: We Want the Monk: The Malik Monk Thread 

Post#1781 » by euphorbus » Fri Mar 26, 2021 1:12 pm

I will reiterate what I wrote in January. Yes, Monk has owned up to his own deficiencies in the past, but that does not mean the Hornets have offered him the same opportunities they did other players. I find it mind-blowing that a guy this talented has only started once his entire career.

euphorbus wrote:Malik Monk has been treated abominably by the Hornets organization. Here are the first-round draft picks from the past few years. All of them but Monk were given a chance to improve themselves in the first two years, with substantial playing time. Only in his third year did Monk get as much playing time as Kaminsky did even in his first season. That year, he had a higher FG% than Kaminsky did in any of his three years, although the latter is a center, and big men have a higher percentage, playing close to the basket. He had a higher FG% and TS% than Bridges did in his second year, in nine fewer minutes per game, but this season has only made it off the bench in one game. Washington performed well last year, but this year is hitting only .430 from the field, despite playing at the five.

Kaminsky
21 MPG FG .410 TS% .513
26.1 FG .399 TS% .502
23.2 FG .429 TS% .545
Monk
13.6 MPG FG .360 TS% .477
17.2 FG .387 TS% .518
21.3 FG .434 TS% .530
Bridges
21.2 MPG FG .464 TS% .548
30.7 FG .424 TS% .520
Washington
30.3 MPG FG .455 TS% .547
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Re: We Want the Monk: The Malik Monk Thread 

Post#1782 » by Rich4114 » Fri Mar 26, 2021 1:52 pm

BigSlam wrote:
Rich4114 wrote:Here’s my thing on Monk. We made a big investment in him (lottery pick) and he came out of college a year too soon. He had a slow start (Clifford) but once our org shifted to the player development mindset, Monk has improved each season and shows signs that can continue into next.

Huh?

How can you possibly put anything on Clifford related to Monk? Have you not read all the articles earlier in the season and the things JB said about Monk - and then the things that Monk said about himself?

Monk has screwed the pooch for years. He said so himself. All of the failures in his NBA career to date are 100% his responsibility.


I never said Monk himself wasn’t the reason for the slow start, but if you think for one minute he ever had a chance being successful under Clifford in his first season here given how Clifford wanted Mitchell over Monk in the draft (which he obviously would’ve been right on) you’re fooling yourself. Clifford believed Monk didn’t play good enough defense to get minutes. He started out in the dog house. Change my mind.
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Re: We Want the Monk: The Malik Monk Thread 

Post#1783 » by Rich4114 » Fri Mar 26, 2021 1:54 pm

euphorbus wrote:I will reiterate what I wrote in January. Yes, Monk has owned up to his own deficiencies in the past, but that does not mean the Hornets have offered him the same opportunities they did other players. I find it mind-blowing that a guy this talented has only started once his entire career.

euphorbus wrote:Malik Monk has been treated abominably by the Hornets organization. Here are the first-round draft picks from the past few years. All of them but Monk were given a chance to improve themselves in the first two years, with substantial playing time. Only in his third year did Monk get as much playing time as Kaminsky did even in his first season. That year, he had a higher FG% than Kaminsky did in any of his three years, although the latter is a center, and big men have a higher percentage, playing close to the basket. He had a higher FG% and TS% than Bridges did in his second year, in nine fewer minutes per game, but this season has only made it off the bench in one game. Washington performed well last year, but this year is hitting only .430 from the field, despite playing at the five.

Kaminsky
21 MPG FG .410 TS% .513
26.1 FG .399 TS% .502
23.2 FG .429 TS% .545
Monk
13.6 MPG FG .360 TS% .477
17.2 FG .387 TS% .518
21.3 FG .434 TS% .530
Bridges
21.2 MPG FG .464 TS% .548
30.7 FG .424 TS% .520
Washington
30.3 MPG FG .455 TS% .547


Precisely my point. He was drafted into the dog house because he wasn’t Donavan Mitchell. Major set back if you ask me
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Re: We Want the Monk: The Malik Monk Thread 

Post#1784 » by BigSlam » Fri Mar 26, 2021 2:41 pm

Rich4114 wrote:
BigSlam wrote:
Rich4114 wrote:Here’s my thing on Monk. We made a big investment in him (lottery pick) and he came out of college a year too soon. He had a slow start (Clifford) but once our org shifted to the player development mindset, Monk has improved each season and shows signs that can continue into next.

Huh?

How can you possibly put anything on Clifford related to Monk? Have you not read all the articles earlier in the season and the things JB said about Monk - and then the things that Monk said about himself?

Monk has screwed the pooch for years. He said so himself. All of the failures in his NBA career to date are 100% his responsibility.


I never said Monk himself wasn’t the reason for the slow start, but if you think for one minute he ever had a chance being successful under Clifford in his first season here given how Clifford wanted Mitchell over Monk in the draft (which he obviously would’ve been right on) you’re fooling yourself. Clifford believed Monk didn’t play good enough defense to get minutes. He started out in the dog house. Change my mind.

If you think for a minute that Clifford, or any coach, isn't going to play the players that give them the best opportunity to win games (and keep their own jobs) you are fooling yourself.

He came off the bench under Calipari in Kentucky and didn't start.
He came off the bench under Clifford in Charlotte and didn't start.
He comes off the bench under Borego in Charlotte and doesn't start.

All three coaches above and made mention of Monk's lack of dedication, application, maturity, commitment, work ethic etc.

There is a common denominator to all of these situations.

I don't need to change your mind. Monk has made his own bed for 5 years now and made it not even a debate.
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Re: We Want the Monk: The Malik Monk Thread 

Post#1785 » by DY_nasty » Fri Mar 26, 2021 2:50 pm

i realllllly don't get the "he didn't start" rant :lol: the reasons he didn't start in each situation are different. coming off the bench helped in kentucky, here cliff plainly didn't know what to do with him, and the borrego situation is.... well, borrego is more comfortable with miles actively regressing, devonte getting the weirdest green light in team history, and biyombo being actively pathetic but somehow starting over zeller lol. who knows what goes through borrego's head.

cliff playing guys out of position then blaming them for not meeting expectations is kind of a thing and definitely traveled with him in orlando as well. dude was mad anthony wasn't a seasoned pg so he gave MCW the keys instead of letting the guy learn on the court. bamba can't even get in the game long enough to figure out why he's in the doghouse anymore. its a theme.

not developing talent somehow morphs into "those guys just sucked" is kinda problematic imo....

as solid of a coach as he is, its a theme that even orlando fans will acknowledge at this point. cliff's an interesting coach.... he had a better knack for saving careers than ever developing them from the ground up. don't think that can be said about anyone else currently coaching in the nba
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Re: We Want the Monk: The Malik Monk Thread 

Post#1786 » by BigSlam » Fri Mar 26, 2021 3:05 pm

I don't understand this drive for the Monk fanboys to blame everyone else for Monk's deficiencies rather than blaming Monk.

I mean Monk, finally this year, even openly blamed himself.

But you guys, you guys wont hear of it. It's everyone else's fault BUT Monk's.
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Re: We Want the Monk: The Malik Monk Thread 

Post#1787 » by DY_nasty » Fri Mar 26, 2021 3:20 pm

BigSlam wrote:I don't understand this drive for the Monk fanboys to blame everyone else for Monk's deficiencies rather than blaming Monk.

I mean Monk, finally this year, even openly blamed himself.

But you guys, you guys wont hear of it. It's everyone else's fault BUT Monk's.

its part of the process, its not always immediate or easy or straightforward. at least he owned it. still waiting for miles to stop getting in twitter battles about how he's a top defender in the league this year.

nice that you're open to calling people monk fanboys now and not pretending there's zero bias now. progress is progress
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Re: We Want the Monk: The Malik Monk Thread 

Post#1788 » by Chapelchilla » Fri Mar 26, 2021 3:41 pm

Monk is not worth bickering over. He is a marginal NBA player but still has upside. I am not sure he reaches that potential though. We better not pay him too much.
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Re: We Want the Monk: The Malik Monk Thread 

Post#1789 » by DY_nasty » Fri Mar 26, 2021 3:56 pm

Chapelchilla wrote:Monk is not worth bickering over. He is a marginal NBA player but still has upside. I am not sure he reaches that potential though. We better not pay him too much.

im down to go back and forth over stuff whenever lol

its just wild how some things get countered with great discussion and other things are complete dismissals with a "u dirty fanboys" sprinkled on top :lol:

no one has done less with more opportunity than miles, graham has been more inconsistent with near infinite rope this season, pj showed up out of shape and has shown recently he has the ability to play with intensity and be proactive on defense - he just doesn't feel like it....

im critical of everyone and i like to think im as enthusiastic for all these young guys when they really show something positive (expect miles because he needs to play at least 3 good games in a row to prove its even possible at this point)

out of all the young non-lamelo guys, monk's been the surprise of the year - and in spite of being benched to start the year, being plugged into into weird lineups constantly, and showing improvement not just in his shooting but attacking the rim along with defense. he's done everything you could reasonably ask for this season.
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Re: We Want the Monk: The Malik Monk Thread 

Post#1790 » by Chapelchilla » Fri Mar 26, 2021 4:09 pm

He has had a good spring. I still hope he can become a consistently successful, starter quality winner but I think he may top out at streaky 6th man. Useful but not worth a big paycheck.
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Re: We Want the Monk: The Malik Monk Thread 

Post#1791 » by SWedd523 » Fri Mar 26, 2021 5:39 pm

He's not better than Terry, so why are people complaining about him not starting?
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Re: We Want the Monk: The Malik Monk Thread 

Post#1792 » by yosemiteben » Fri Mar 26, 2021 5:57 pm

SWedd523 wrote:He's not better than Terry, so why are people complaining about him not starting?

Because Graham did, even though Monk isn't a PG and Terry plays better off ball.
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Re: We Want the Monk: The Malik Monk Thread 

Post#1793 » by Rich4114 » Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:10 pm

There is always some high debate / polarizing player (usually a guard) on our roster since the re-birth in 2004. I don't know what it is. This goes back to the Felton vs Knight days. That is Malik Monk. But first I want to say that I love the ability for us to have this debate.

I know I am probably considered a Monk fanboi to Slam, and that's fine. I like Monk because he has unique abilities the rest of our roster doesn't. I also am not saying that Monk himself is not at fault for how the early part of his career has gone. His deficiencies were 100% on him. What was not on him was the opportunity he was given to develop and perform vs others during the same span of time and even into this year. He has always been held to a much different standard than others and the only thing that ever made sense was how it started. Monk was selected over Mitchell.

DY is spot on. How do you justify not playing Monk because of his lack of defense when you played guys like Kaminsky and Miles as much as you did? When given the opportunity, he has produced at a high rate because he does a lot of things very well and he's super athletic. Why do you think Dell and Eric Collins are always raving about him and rooting for him to play? The Monk stuff has just been stupid and all I'm saying is we finally have him as a major part of our rotation contributing with very good efficiency, he's only just turned 23 and likely about to hit the prime years of production for the next 5-6 years. It would feel like we were the AAA team to whatever his next team is if we let him walk and that would be a wasted investment IMO. You're going to not only whiff on Donavan Mitchell but you're also going to let the guy you took instead who finally developed into a really good player go help some other team compete? Hell no. Sign the man.
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Re: We Want the Monk: The Malik Monk Thread 

Post#1794 » by yosemiteben » Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:17 pm

I don't really buy the "he hasn't had a chance" narrative, not that it offends me or anything but I just don't agree with it. Monk lost me when he shot 28% from 3 last season while not really contributing anything else despite playing 21 MPG. He has more work to do to fully win me back and show me that he can produce without dominating the ball OR that he will be a consistent shooter. Extra points if he can do both.
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Re: We Want the Monk: The Malik Monk Thread 

Post#1795 » by Rich4114 » Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:58 pm

yosemiteben wrote:I don't really buy the "he hasn't had a chance" narrative, not that it offends me or anything but I just don't agree with it. Monk lost me when he shot 28% from 3 last season while not really contributing anything else despite playing 21 MPG. He has more work to do to fully win me back and show me that he can produce without dominating the ball OR that he will be a consistent shooter. Extra points if he can do both.


I’m assigning you to team anti-Monk with Slam lol
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Re: We Want the Monk: The Malik Monk Thread 

Post#1796 » by yosemiteben » Fri Mar 26, 2021 10:16 pm

Rich4114 wrote:
yosemiteben wrote:I don't really buy the "he hasn't had a chance" narrative, not that it offends me or anything but I just don't agree with it. Monk lost me when he shot 28% from 3 last season while not really contributing anything else despite playing 21 MPG. He has more work to do to fully win me back and show me that he can produce without dominating the ball OR that he will be a consistent shooter. Extra points if he can do both.


I’m assigning you to team anti-Monk with Slam lol

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Re: We Want the Monk: The Malik Monk Thread 

Post#1797 » by euphorbus » Fri Mar 26, 2021 11:21 pm

SWedd523 wrote:He's not better than Terry, so why are people complaining about him not starting?


Look at it this way. There are four guys on the Hornets who have not started a game this year. Three of them are Vernon Carey, Nick Richards, and Nate Darling. Among them, they have played a total of 20 games, and all average 3.6 minutes per game.

The fourth guy is Malik Monk. He has played 30 games, and averages 21.6 minutes per game.
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Re: We Want the Monk: The Malik Monk Thread 

Post#1798 » by Braggins » Fri Mar 26, 2021 11:49 pm

Monk is playing pretty well this season so far. I don't know why people even feel the need to be making excuses right now.

It kind of distorts the current situation when so much of the discussion about our guard rotation is focused on arguments about Monk's past struggles. You could almost get the impression from the discussion that Monk is having a trash season.

And who cares about Monk starting? Terry and Monk's offensive production is very similar, but Terry is more experienced/poised and is a more reliable defender. Devonte still makes more sense to start with Terry. If LaMelo was healthy and Terry was injured and Borrego started Devonte/LaMelo instead of Monk/LaMelo, which is definitely what would happen in that scenario, then it would actually make sense to complain about Monk not starting.
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Re: We Want the Monk: The Malik Monk Thread 

Post#1799 » by SpearNMgicHelmt » Fri Mar 26, 2021 11:49 pm

euphorbus wrote:I will reiterate what I wrote in January. Yes, Monk has owned up to his own deficiencies in the past, but that does not mean the Hornets have offered him the same opportunities they did other players. I find it mind-blowing that a guy this talented has only started once his entire career.

euphorbus wrote:Malik Monk has been treated abominably by the Hornets organization. Here are the first-round draft picks from the past few years. All of them but Monk were given a chance to improve themselves in the first two years, with substantial playing time. Only in his third year did Monk get as much playing time as Kaminsky did even in his first season. That year, he had a higher FG% than Kaminsky did in any of his three years, although the latter is a center, and big men have a higher percentage, playing close to the basket. He had a higher FG% and TS% than Bridges did in his second year, in nine fewer minutes per game, but this season has only made it off the bench in one game. Washington performed well last year, but this year is hitting only .430 from the field, despite playing at the five.

Kaminsky
21 MPG FG .410 TS% .513
26.1 FG .399 TS% .502
23.2 FG .429 TS% .545
Monk
13.6 MPG FG .360 TS% .477
17.2 FG .387 TS% .518
21.3 FG .434 TS% .530
Bridges
21.2 MPG FG .464 TS% .548
30.7 FG .424 TS% .520
Washington
30.3 MPG FG .455 TS% .547


Aw, man, why'd you have to go and remind us that we drafted Kaminsky? :-)
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Re: We Want the Monk: The Malik Monk Thread 

Post#1800 » by Chapelchilla » Fri Mar 26, 2021 11:59 pm

SpearNMgicHelmt wrote:
euphorbus wrote:I will reiterate what I wrote in January. Yes, Monk has owned up to his own deficiencies in the past, but that does not mean the Hornets have offered him the same opportunities they did other players. I find it mind-blowing that a guy this talented has only started once his entire career.

euphorbus wrote:Malik Monk has been treated abominably by the Hornets organization. Here are the first-round draft picks from the past few years. All of them but Monk were given a chance to improve themselves in the first two years, with substantial playing time. Only in his third year did Monk get as much playing time as Kaminsky did even in his first season. That year, he had a higher FG% than Kaminsky did in any of his three years, although the latter is a center, and big men have a higher percentage, playing close to the basket. He had a higher FG% and TS% than Bridges did in his second year, in nine fewer minutes per game, but this season has only made it off the bench in one game. Washington performed well last year, but this year is hitting only .430 from the field, despite playing at the five.

Kaminsky
21 MPG FG .410 TS% .513
26.1 FG .399 TS% .502
23.2 FG .429 TS% .545
Monk
13.6 MPG FG .360 TS% .477
17.2 FG .387 TS% .518
21.3 FG .434 TS% .530
Bridges
21.2 MPG FG .464 TS% .548
30.7 FG .424 TS% .520
Washington
30.3 MPG FG .455 TS% .547


Aw, man, why'd you have to go and remind us that we drafted Kaminsky? :-)


One major qualifier regarding Kaminsky is that the guy was already as old as Monk is now when he came into the league.

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