Frank Kaminsky #2 - Not Extended (UFA)

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

Kaminsky has played his best basketball as a backup center.

I think that this is true - IN CLIFF'S SYSTEM. Not sure that it would hold true with another coach.

[Braggins]

Kaminsky has played his best basketball as a backup center.

I think that this is true - IN CLIFF'S SYSTEM. Not sure that it would hold true with another coach.

I think most coachs would view Frank primarily as a center. Clifford views him as a PF and doesn't like playing him at center unless he is forced to because you can't be GOAT level at team defensive rebounding with Frank at center and that is Cliffords main concern as a coach and only thing he really knows how to do successfully.

[yosemiteben]

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Don't normally think Rick says anything worth mentioning, but this would be something if it went down.

[Liver_Pooty]

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Don't normally think Rick says anything worth mentioning, but this would be something if it went down.

Im shocked that Bonnell said something like that. And I can actually see it happening.

[catch20two]

Good riddance Frank. Hopefully we can find a taker.

[HornetJail]

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Don't normally think Rick says anything worth mentioning, but this would be something if it went down.

only took Clifford two and a half years to do something like that to Frank, yet Malik can't even get off the bench.

Frank was a wasted pick. I'd be happy to get a steady backup PG in a Frank trade. Not even like a Lin, Napier, or Clarkson caliber guy... I'd settle for a Mudiay, Nelson, or Neto at this point. Anyone who could play backup PG and not actively tank us would be worth more to this team than anything Frank can give us.

[HornetJail]

Kaminsky has played his best basketball as a backup center.

I think long term he still has a lot of value. I would look to trade Marvin a the deadline and try to get him some starts before the end of the year.

this is true only if you completely punt defense. or you have a forward next to him who is really good at defending the paint, in which case that guy is more of a center than Frank is.

[Snidely FC]

this team is so frustrating
yeah Frank has been disappointing but I think its the team's fault
it should have focused on optimizing Frank's skillset and continuing to emphasize Cody's importance instead of bringing in Dinosaur Dwight to stand in both their ways
now they're going to just toss aside another first round asset because they have a a roster weighted with anachronistic players and a stubborn outmoded coach who puts his young players in no-win situations

[catch20two]

I’m cool with the Dwight trade. It was better than keeping Plumlee and Belinelli.

However I did fear that Clifford would misuse Dwight and that’s exactly what he did. It could’ve been a lot worse during Cody’s second consecutive season missing a lot of time. Can’t really blame that on Dwight.

The things that I do get irritated with Dwight about usually directs the blame right back to Clifford allowing it like dribbling up the floor, shooting jumpers, and being on the floor when teams are abusing his lack of PnR defense.

As far as Frank I don’t know if he’s just that airheaded or if Clifford disengages him in this area. No way should Frank have been allowed to consistently play 25 minutes with the defensive effort he put forth all season.

[Lwcasu]

this team is so frustrating
yeah Frank has been disappointing but I think its the team's fault
it should have focused on optimizing Frank's skillset and continuing to emphasize Cody's importance instead of bringing in Dinosaur Dwight to stand in both their ways
now they're going to just toss aside another first round asset because they have a a roster weighted with anachronistic players and a stubborn outmoded coach who puts his young players in no-win situations

Sorry, but I have to disagree with you saying this team killed frank's development. We gave that guy all the opportunity in the world. Unfortunately, Frank just isn't consistently good enough. He can't shoot from range well enough, and he's too weak to do much damage inside. He's had plent of opportunity here. Cody actually has developed but he is injury prone.

[Eoghan]

The things that I do get irritated with Dwight about usually directs the blame right back to Clifford allowing it like dribbling up the floor, shooting jumpers, and being on the floor when teams are abusing his lack of PnR defense.

I want to blame Dwight for those things but it harkens me back to the good old days of Byron Mullens.


Frank just makes me sad though. He seemed like a positive ball mover and facilitator but he's just another rusty cog in our barely functioning offense.

[Liver_Pooty]

Frank is a center, and hes the 4th best center on our team currently. The stretch 4 experiment did not work. Time to cut our losses

[catch20two]

Frank is a center, and hes the 4th best center on our team currently. The stretch 4 experiment did not work. Time to cut our losses

We can blame Cho and Clifford for that so we should cut our losses with them too.

[Snidely FC]

this team is so frustrating
yeah Frank has been disappointing but I think its the team's fault
it should have focused on optimizing Frank's skillset and continuing to emphasize Cody's importance instead of bringing in Dinosaur Dwight to stand in both their ways
now they're going to just toss aside another first round asset because they have a a roster weighted with anachronistic players and a stubborn outmoded coach who puts his young players in no-win situations

Sorry, but I have to disagree with you saying this team killed frank's development. We gave that guy all the opportunity in the world. Unfortunately, Frank just isn't consistently good enough. He can't shoot from range well enough, and he's too weak to do much damage inside. He's had plent of opportunity here. Cody actually has developed but he is injury prone.

By all the opportunity in the world you mean sticking him at the top of the 3 point line to catch and shoot 3s? And leaving him to hang out to dry when guarding players that are clearly quicker?

Look, I’m disappointed in Frank’s play too. But what I’m really reacting to is Bonnell saying the team will dump him for a sack of potatoes because his rookie salary scale gets them under the tax line.

First of all, I don't think the team has "blocked his development" because he is only 24 and not finished developing. I said optimize his skillset, that' different. Why did the team draft Frank? Because it saw a 7 footer with versatility or because Cliff thought he’d finally found his Josh McRoberts replacement? In today's NBA positionless basketball and versatility win. What options for usage is there for Frank with Dwight Howard soaking up usage in the paint? Frank is asked to play catch and shoot stretch 4 and to guard quicker players. If that role isn't working, try something different!! What would Spoelstra do? I hear you saying Frank's not strong enough for this or that, but we don't entirely know what he's capable of in the NBA - we saw an intriguing skillset in college and a flash of something better when he played Center last spring. I'm saying the opportunity to expand his role has been limited by Dwight's arrival, and as the year has unfolded you could see it has flat out destroyed Frank's confidence.

But my intent in that earlier post wasn't exactly to argue about Frank specifically. I really wanted to make a larger point, which I apparently did not do well, that transcends Frank. The point is about this team's indifference to putting its young players in positions in which they might succeed but also protecting them as valuable assets. I'm talking larger picture, style of play, coach support, and protecting value. Back when the team had Biz it could have chosen to unleash its young stallions with Kemba, MKG, Cody and Biz, start to play uptempo, let the young guys grow together, add more youth around them, build organically through depth and youth. That would have been a wiser long term approach to roster building and provided a better segue to modern pace and space basketball. Instead the team anchored its young horses to Al Jeff and jettisoned Biz for no return. Biz may not have turned out to be a star, but not signing him to a qualifying offer, letting a first round pick walk for nothing is just bad business. The team could have controlled him as an asset with a q.o. and traded him for other assets. Or kept Biz as backup Center (he would not have gotten that giant contract if he’d not gone to TOR and shined during the playoffs) behind Cody, rather than going out every year to find a new grizzled starting center to play ahead of Cody. The disastrous shortsighted trade of a first round pick for Marco Belinelli is another example of the same sort of fiduciary negligence. Since the Biz-Cliff head butt every personnel move has continued to favor bringing in recycled veterans to fit Clifford's system over finding a coach and a system that allowed its young players to come to the fore, to increase their usage, to improve athleticism, and optimize versatility. That’s why this team isn’t just losing, watching it is like watching moss grow.

To succeed in this league small market Charlotte needs to do so by via organic growth through youth and depth. Why bring in Dwight Howard? Did they think that was going to make them a championship contender?For how many seasons? 2? After Cody and Frank looked like a legit Center rotation to build around last spring? Yes, I would have preferred to keep Plumlee and Marco, because their individual contracts, particularly Marco’s, were movable for added depth, but also because we didn't need a starting Center, we needed Center depth behind Cody and Frank, not in front of them. I know everybody will point at Dwight and say he's not the problem look how well he's played! But that is not the point; Dwight has great numbers and great individual games but he prevents the team from increasing usage for two top ten draft choices. Often in this league the difference between role player and stardom is usage and opportunity. Look at Olidipo in IND, where did that come from? Usage breeds confidence and unlocks versatility. Frank isn't the only example. What about MKG? Might he look like a completely different player if the team had gone young, athletic and uptempo at that pivotal Al Jeff vs Biyombo juncture? What if he'd had a different coach, one that didn't say its okay for you to only do what you know and specialize on defense because that's Old School, rather than telling him you have got to attempt threes even if you miss? We'll never know.

So, yeah, all of the above is why Bonnell's post sent me on a rant. Especially coming on the heels of a trade deadline where we heard the team can't afford to resign Kemba because of the Batum albatross. We might as well dump Kaminsky and his rookie scale contract in order to keep emphasis on Batum and Howard, whose wheels are in the process of falling off, and whose massive contracts and playing time block the potential to see where increased usage takes the team's young players. Is that going to give fans of this team any more hope?

[DY_nasty]

trading a pick in that horrible draft isn't a big deal

and as much as people like to hate on al, he got this team used to winning a little bit for the first time in a looooooooong time

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

. I really wanted to make a larger point, which I apparently did not do well, that transcends Frank. The point is about this team's indifference to putting its young players in positions in which they might succeed but also protecting them as valuable assets. I'm talking larger picture, style of play, coach support, and protecting value.

This. So much this. Great post Snidely.

[Diop]

Wasn’t there a stat that showed that our best defensive unit had Frank and Zeller last year?

What happened?

[yosemiteben]

I get Snidely's point and can get with the sentiment, but I also think there is no reasonable argument to be made that Frank hasn't been given an opportunity to succeed. He is completely catered to with that second unit. I also don't understand the argument about Dwight as relates to Frank, since they pretty much never share the floor.

I strongly disagree that Cliff is to blame for Frank's poor play.

I also can't believe we're still taking about Biz. He is currently an end of rotation big for a tanking team and a complete non-factor. I would say we were spot on in moving on.

[MugzZo]

If we get a ham sammich for him this summer I’d be happy. Just save me a bite of the ham sammich.


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[Vanderbilt_Grad]

I get Snidely's point and can get with the sentiment, but I also think there is no reasonable argument to be made that Frank hasn't been given an opportunity to succeed. He is completely catered to with that second unit. I also don't understand the argument about Dwight as relates to Frank, since they pretty much never share the floor.

I strongly disagree that Cliff is to blame for Frank's poor play.

I also can't believe we're still taking about Biz. He is currently an end of rotation big for a tanking team and a complete non-factor. I would say we were spot on in moving on.

I don't see Frank being "catered to" at all. Frank is playing in Cliff's system now. A big part of the difference in his play as a PF vs C has to do with the different roles in that system. This is a big part of what Snidley was talking about above. Cliff has his system where other coaches seem to do things to find ways to get their players to succeed. Brad Stevens is a great example. Look at how players perform in Boston vs what they do once traded. That's Stevens putting them in a position to maximize their individual strengths in a way that the team as a whole plays better. Similar thing with Spo getting random guys to play hard and his team doing well. Pop changing completely the way the Spurs used to play vs how they do now.

If *ANYONE* is catered to on this team it's Cliff. It's always all about the him, his system, what he thinks about some random guy vs our young guys.

To me Snidely's long post was 100% about putting guys in positions to do better in general not about making excuses for why individual players like Frank haven't. It's that big picture that bothers me the most.