ImageImage

Not Van Damme: The James Borrego Thread

Moderators: fatlever, yosemiteben, Diop, BigSlam, JDR720

User avatar
BigSlam
Forum Mod - Hornets
Forum Mod - Hornets
Posts: 48,096
And1: 5,617
Joined: Jul 01, 2005

Re: Not Van Damme: The James Borrego Thread 

Post#321 » by BigSlam » Thu Nov 7, 2019 6:00 pm

CatgutStitches wrote:I actually did notice that quite a few times during the Pacers game... first time I'd seen it. Is it to try and distract them for a split second or...?

I was wondering the same thing.

Is the deliberate contact a ploy to make the defender lean into it thinking the screener is setting hard - so that when the screener slips it and pop out they theoretically have more space and confuse the defender?

Either way, I've been finding it interesting.

Glad I'm not the only one that picked up on it and I'm not completely insane!!
BBMF'ers
User avatar
-Ian-
Veteran
Posts: 2,913
And1: 694
Joined: Nov 22, 2008
Location: Philippines
Contact:
 

Re: Not Van Damme: The James Borrego Thread 

Post#322 » by -Ian- » Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:29 pm

Read on Twitter
yasuhara2241
Freshman
Posts: 92
And1: 37
Joined: Jul 04, 2015
     

Re: Not Van Damme: The James Borrego Thread 

Post#323 » by yasuhara2241 » Thu Jan 7, 2021 7:15 pm

I have been a big proponent of James Borrego. He did such a great job developing players the past couple of years. Now, there are expectations. How can he handle a team with expectations and need to start winning.

Right now, his rotations are extremely questionable. We need offense so he has lineups with 2 struggling players (Graham & PJ), 2 Martins and Biz?? Then starting the 4th he starts Graham, 2 Martins, Hayward and Biz?

I know that the season has just begun, but there are some coaches that are fantastic developers and some that are amazing in game coaches. A select few can do both.

Do you all think that that Borrego can do both?
DY_nasty
General Manager
Posts: 9,369
And1: 4,945
Joined: Apr 14, 2010

Re: Not Van Damme: The James Borrego Thread 

Post#324 » by DY_nasty » Thu Jan 7, 2021 7:34 pm

I don't even think he needs to win, he just needs to not shoot himself in the foot. Everyone knows the roster is a mess with huge balance issues. We know the team is young.

When you play a dude huge minutes who's CLEARLY underperforming - and in such a way that you're running out 3 guard lineups just to accommodate him to the detriment of the team? Its only going to alienate players who work hard to get opportunities or do their best to maintain their position in the lineup.

Its not quite the same situation, but little stuff like that is how Fisdale got fired from NY. You don't need to have high expectations to fail and lose confidence as a coach in this league.
Chapelchilla
Pro Prospect
Posts: 754
And1: 400
Joined: Aug 04, 2014
         

Re: Not Van Damme: The James Borrego Thread 

Post#325 » by Chapelchilla » Thu Jan 7, 2021 8:10 pm

I disagree here. I think we don't really need to emphasize getting the win regularly (yet). This year is about developing the young talent on our roster while being competitive but hopefully not winning too much. We want another lottery pick this year.
We are and should be prioritizing playing Graham, the Martins, and Monk (when he is healthy) even if we lose because of it as we need to see what they really have to offer before we pay them or not. The Hornets are not going to win a title this season with Biz and broken Cody at the C spot and our likely best player being a skinny rookie. Develop and get better even if we don't win the game every night. I would play Carey and Richards too but I guess they are still so raw it would hurt them to play a lot now and their contracts are not expiring soon. Maybe ply them more in a month or two (or in GBORO).
DY_nasty
General Manager
Posts: 9,369
And1: 4,945
Joined: Apr 14, 2010

Re: Not Van Damme: The James Borrego Thread 

Post#326 » by DY_nasty » Thu Jan 7, 2021 8:58 pm

we're not so good that we need to tank to lose games though. we're nowhere close and our depth/roster imbalance prevents that from even being a possibility

hell, its also wild that borrego is allowed to play hayward at PF....
Hornet Mania
Head Coach
Posts: 6,501
And1: 5,083
Joined: Jul 05, 2014
Location: Dornbirn, Austria
     

Re: Not Van Damme: The James Borrego Thread 

Post#327 » by Hornet Mania » Thu Jan 7, 2021 9:59 pm

I don't think the mismanagement is at critical levels yet, for example I don't think he's in any danger of an insurrection due to Graham not getting benched, but he hasn't done a great job with rotations early in the year. I'm willing to cut this team a lot of slack because they're so young and/or new and I extend JB the same courtesy, but he's got to sort things out soon or at least make an attempt.

Getting drilled for the first five minutes of every game except yesterday while the starters look like they've never played together before is not a recipe for success.
User avatar
Diop
Forum Mod - Hornets
Forum Mod - Hornets
Posts: 32,759
And1: 13,709
Joined: Jul 24, 2004
Location: House of Diop
 

Re: Not Van Damme: The James Borrego Thread 

Post#328 » by Diop » Thu Jan 7, 2021 11:36 pm

Chapelchilla wrote:I disagree here. I think we don't really need to emphasize getting the win regularly (yet). This year is about developing the young talent on our roster while being competitive but hopefully not winning too much. We want another lottery pick this year.
We are and should be prioritizing playing Graham, the Martins, and Monk (when he is healthy) even if we lose because of it as we need to see what they really have to offer before we pay them or not. The Hornets are not going to win a title this season with Biz and broken Cody at the C spot and our likely best player being a skinny rookie. Develop and get better even if we don't win the game every night. I would play Carey and Richards too but I guess they are still so raw it would hurt them to play a lot now and their contracts are not expiring soon. Maybe ply them more in a month or two (or in GBORO).

This is a good point, it is definitely worthwhile giving heavy minutes to those we need to make a decision on this year.
Image
yasuhara2241
Freshman
Posts: 92
And1: 37
Joined: Jul 04, 2015
     

Re: Not Van Damme: The James Borrego Thread 

Post#329 » by yasuhara2241 » Fri Jan 8, 2021 2:01 pm

Chapelchilla wrote:I disagree here. I think we don't really need to emphasize getting the win regularly (yet). This year is about developing the young talent on our roster while being competitive but hopefully not winning too much. We want another lottery pick this year.
We are and should be prioritizing playing Graham, the Martins, and Monk (when he is healthy) even if we lose because of it as we need to see what they really have to offer before we pay them or not. The Hornets are not going to win a title this season with Biz and broken Cody at the C spot and our likely best player being a skinny rookie. Develop and get better even if we don't win the game every night. I would play Carey and Richards too but I guess they are still so raw it would hurt them to play a lot now and their contracts are not expiring soon. Maybe ply them more in a month or two (or in GBORO).


Now, if this were our plan wouldn't we be playing Monk and the rookie Centers especially with Cody hurt? I think that was our plan but when we got Hayward our plan was put a year in fast forward. Maybe my expectations are out of whack but I didn't expect us to be a team that relied solely on zone defense and just hoped that the team we are facing misses open threes. For us to be a good team we need to be better defenders on the ball. Borrego was interviewed saying he needs more offense so the Martin twins playing at the same time is the answer? That seems counterintuitive.
User avatar
Liver_Pooty
RealGM
Posts: 35,114
And1: 11,335
Joined: Dec 29, 2008
Location: Asheville, NC
   

Re: Not Van Damme: The James Borrego Thread 

Post#330 » by Liver_Pooty » Fri Jan 8, 2021 5:01 pm

yasuhara2241 wrote:
Chapelchilla wrote:I disagree here. I think we don't really need to emphasize getting the win regularly (yet). This year is about developing the young talent on our roster while being competitive but hopefully not winning too much. We want another lottery pick this year.
We are and should be prioritizing playing Graham, the Martins, and Monk (when he is healthy) even if we lose because of it as we need to see what they really have to offer before we pay them or not. The Hornets are not going to win a title this season with Biz and broken Cody at the C spot and our likely best player being a skinny rookie. Develop and get better even if we don't win the game every night. I would play Carey and Richards too but I guess they are still so raw it would hurt them to play a lot now and their contracts are not expiring soon. Maybe ply them more in a month or two (or in GBORO).


Now, if this were our plan wouldn't we be playing Monk and the rookie Centers especially with Cody hurt? I think that was our plan but when we got Hayward our plan was put a year in fast forward. Maybe my expectations are out of whack but I didn't expect us to be a team that relied solely on zone defense and just hoped that the team we are facing misses open threes. For us to be a good team we need to be better defenders on the ball. Borrego was interviewed saying he needs more offense so the Martin twins playing at the same time is the answer? That seems counterintuitive.


His answer for more offense was the 3 guard lineup which was ok except for he had PJ at center as well so defensively it was a head scratcher, and thats putting it nicely
Balllin wrote:Zion Williamson is 6-5, with a 6-10 wingspan. I see him as a slightly better Kenneth Faried.
DY_nasty
General Manager
Posts: 9,369
And1: 4,945
Joined: Apr 14, 2010

Re: Not Van Damme: The James Borrego Thread 

Post#331 » by DY_nasty » Fri Jan 8, 2021 6:52 pm

the 3 guard offense isn't even that good offensively is it?
User avatar
Liver_Pooty
RealGM
Posts: 35,114
And1: 11,335
Joined: Dec 29, 2008
Location: Asheville, NC
   

Re: Not Van Damme: The James Borrego Thread 

Post#332 » by Liver_Pooty » Fri Jan 8, 2021 7:22 pm

DY_nasty wrote:the 3 guard offense isn't even that good offensively is it?


Nothing is good offensively when one of your guards probably has the worst shooting percentage in the world right now.
Balllin wrote:Zion Williamson is 6-5, with a 6-10 wingspan. I see him as a slightly better Kenneth Faried.
DY_nasty
General Manager
Posts: 9,369
And1: 4,945
Joined: Apr 14, 2010

Re: Not Van Damme: The James Borrego Thread 

Post#333 » by DY_nasty » Fri Jan 8, 2021 8:32 pm

Liver_Pooty wrote:
DY_nasty wrote:the 3 guard offense isn't even that good offensively is it?


Nothing is good offensively when one of your guards probably has the worst shooting percentage in the world right now.

well that too lol

but i'm really having trouble understanding why we're still leaning on it so heavily why our defense is constantly punished for it - and our offense isn't even dramatically better for it either

i get the roster limitations, but at the same time.... we've got guys dribbling in circles and resetting the offense without even probing the defense honestly. only to come back down the court and have your every day 6'5 guard shooter over them with ease
User avatar
SWedd523
General Manager
Posts: 9,273
And1: 1,752
Joined: Jul 07, 2009
   

Re: Not Van Damme: The James Borrego Thread 

Post#334 » by SWedd523 » Sat Jan 9, 2021 2:36 am

DY_nasty wrote:the 3 guard offense isn't even that good offensively is it?

How many minute have those three played at the same time?
Image
User avatar
Diop
Forum Mod - Hornets
Forum Mod - Hornets
Posts: 32,759
And1: 13,709
Joined: Jul 24, 2004
Location: House of Diop
 

Re: Not Van Damme: The James Borrego Thread 

Post#335 » by Diop » Sat Jan 9, 2021 3:15 am

I don’t know what I would do with Graham, you could bench him but it would probably destroy him. Hopefully he realises he can do well off the bench as we look a lot more dangerous with ball creating. Graham does seem safer, but he’s not creating much.
Image
Rich4114
General Manager
Posts: 8,878
And1: 2,915
Joined: Mar 11, 2004
Location: PA
   

Re: Not Van Damme: The James Borrego Thread 

Post#336 » by Rich4114 » Sat Jan 9, 2021 3:18 am

In the NBA you need to score. You can be great at defense but if you can’t score the other team will overcome your great defense more than you will overcome their sub part defense. This team lacks scoring ability and our defensive issues are inside because we are regularly undersized. I don’t see the value in playing sub par offensive talent in the Martin Twins over someone who we know can drive, finish and create ESPECIALLY when we are playing zone.
Chapelchilla
Pro Prospect
Posts: 754
And1: 400
Joined: Aug 04, 2014
         

Re: Not Van Damme: The James Borrego Thread 

Post#337 » by Chapelchilla » Sat Jan 9, 2021 4:53 am

Rich4114 wrote:In the NBA you need to score. You can be great at defense but if you can’t score the other team will overcome your great defense more than you will overcome their sub part defense. This team lacks scoring ability and our defensive issues are inside because we are regularly undersized. I don’t see the value in playing sub par offensive talent in the Martin Twins over someone who we know can drive, finish and create ESPECIALLY when we are playing zone.


If you mean Monk, he clearly isn't healthy yet. Dude looks ashen still. Hopefully he can get his wind back.
yasuhara2241
Freshman
Posts: 92
And1: 37
Joined: Jul 04, 2015
     

Re: Not Van Damme: The James Borrego Thread 

Post#338 » by yasuhara2241 » Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:38 pm

If I can bash Borrego, I also got to commend him. It looks like he has shortened the rotation a bit. I still don't like the Martins on the floor at the same time but I need to give credit to Borrego for Caleb. He has been playing very well and has been very aggressive. He just needs to work on his handles! I also like the lineup that has been successful the past couple of games. He has Graham, Terry, Ball, Hayward and either Miles or PJ. This lineup works very well since many other teams don't have dominate bigs anymore. Where it will struggle is with teams like Philly who has a dominant Center.
User avatar
BigSlam
Forum Mod - Hornets
Forum Mod - Hornets
Posts: 48,096
And1: 5,617
Joined: Jul 01, 2005

Re: Not Van Damme: The James Borrego Thread 

Post#339 » by BigSlam » Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:58 pm

I dislike the three PG line up. A lot.

I think it takes away from what each of them does and ends up being two of the PG’s standing around watching while the third PG handles the ball.
BBMF'ers
User avatar
JMAC3
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,161
And1: 1,238
Joined: May 22, 2010
     

Re: Not Van Damme: The James Borrego Thread 

Post#340 » by JMAC3 » Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:26 pm

BigSlam wrote:I dislike the three PG line up. A lot.

I think it takes away from what each of them does and ends up being two of the PG’s standing around watching while the third PG handles the ball.


I think I would like the lineup more if LaMelo was the guy with the ball more consistently. Rozier and Graham are two of our more respected shooters and theoretically that should open up space for LaMelo. However, it seems like LaMelo stands in the corner too much when on the floor with both of them.

I do think LaMelo will eventually be like Luka in the fact that you can play him 1-3 and you are really focused on more on the types of players you have around him and not so much the position they play.
Big Board
1. Vontae Mack no matter what!!

Return to Charlotte Hornets