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Birdland Presents: The Miles Bridges Thread

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Re: Birdland Presents - The Miles Bridges Thread 

Post#821 » by KembaWalker » Thu Jan 21, 2021 4:49 pm

You could probably stick Jalen in Miles minutes and get 95% of the production at 25% of the cost if it comes to that
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Re: Birdland Presents - The Miles Bridges Thread 

Post#822 » by Chapelchilla » Thu Jan 21, 2021 4:52 pm

4/48 seems pretty reasonable for a 23 year old with Bridges’s skill set. That’s not a bad contract. 4/80 is a bad contract and maybe what he gets somewhere (hopefully not here at that price).
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Re: Birdland Presents - The Miles Bridges Thread 

Post#823 » by DY_nasty » Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:11 pm

Chapelchilla wrote:4/48 seems pretty reasonable for a 23 year old with Bridges’s skill set. That’s not a bad contract. 4/80 is a bad contract and maybe what he gets somewhere (hopefully not here at that price).

....what's the skillset?

i wasn't joking about the derrick jones jr comparison. miles shoots it a bit better but djj is the better defender by far.

miles just has a much higher usage rate and the love of a franchise FO and coaching staff willing to give him every opportunity to succeed instead of being passed around the league
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Re: Birdland Presents - The Miles Bridges Thread 

Post#824 » by JMAC3 » Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:37 pm

DY_nasty wrote:....what's the skillset?

i wasn't joking about the derrick jones jr comparison. miles shoots it a bit better but djj is the better defender by far.

miles just has a much higher usage rate and the love of a franchise FO and coaching staff willing to give him every opportunity to succeed instead of being passed around the league


A bit better? Miles is shooting 40% from three this year compared to Jones at 25.7%

Last year Miles at 33% compared to Jones at 28%.

Those are massive differences and Miles pretty much does everything else better as well if you look stat by stat and Miles can play the 4, Jones would get murdered playing the 4.

Jones got a 2/19 Million this summer. Don't think Miles getting 4/44 would be bad, lock him up on a long-term deal and keep hoping he gets better and becomes a super value.
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Re: Birdland Presents - The Miles Bridges Thread 

Post#825 » by DY_nasty » Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:18 pm

JMAC3 wrote:
DY_nasty wrote:....what's the skillset?

i wasn't joking about the derrick jones jr comparison. miles shoots it a bit better but djj is the better defender by far.

miles just has a much higher usage rate and the love of a franchise FO and coaching staff willing to give him every opportunity to succeed instead of being passed around the league


A bit better? Miles is shooting 40% from three this year compared to Jones at 25.7%

Last year Miles at 33% compared to Jones at 28%.

Those are massive differences and Miles pretty much does everything else better as well if you look stat by stat and Miles can play the 4, Jones would get murdered playing the 4.

Jones got a 2/19 Million this summer. Don't think Miles getting 4/44 would be bad, lock him up on a long-term deal and keep hoping he gets better and becomes a super value.

he hasn't even taken 50 3s so far. one glance at that his jank form and its not a stretch to say he's a streaky shooter either - and that's with us again catering to the guy his entire career.

and miles really can't play the 4 either lol. this season has been all about #smallball

i think the only thing that's really improved from miles is his help defense but we can't even take advantage of that with all the straight line drives allowed.

guys who provide his level of production can be found pretty easily. and considering we have hayward at the 3 and PJ who's actually a 4 and way better - why keep Miles?
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Re: Birdland Presents - The Miles Bridges Thread 

Post#826 » by SWedd523 » Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:24 pm

This is exactly the type of emotional overpay that I'm talking about.

10+ million for Miles is clown shoes. He isn't going to win games. Trade him and recycle that cap space into an actual difference maker and sign some random vet looking for an end of the bench contract to replace his production.

He's not a star. We've seen that. He's not projecting to even be an above average starter and does not score enough to provide enough value from the wing.

I'd be 100% okay trading him and Monk for a guy like Lauri or Allen and giving the Martin twins and McDaniels all of their minutes. There would be very little to no drop off
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Re: Birdland Presents - The Miles Bridges Thread 

Post#827 » by JMAC3 » Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:52 pm

DY_nasty wrote:and considering we have hayward at the 3 and PJ who's actually a 4 and way better - why keep Miles?


Because we all know only your starting 5 matters... it doesn't hurt to have a few decent players on the bench. Especially while you assume you are getting a massive discount on a potential star like LaMelo.
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Re: Birdland Presents - The Miles Bridges Thread 

Post#828 » by DY_nasty » Thu Jan 21, 2021 8:42 pm

JMAC3 wrote:
DY_nasty wrote:and considering we have hayward at the 3 and PJ who's actually a 4 and way better - why keep Miles?


Because we all know only your starting 5 matters... it doesn't hurt to have a few decent players on the bench. Especially while you assume you are getting a massive discount on a potential star like LaMelo.
don't think its even a starting 5 thing... with the minutes he gets you'd simply expect a lot more than what he brings. like even with fewer minutes and less usage this year, he's somehow turning the ball over more?

we get roughly the same production out of miles that we did out of anthony tolliver - and this is again without putting in a guy just to throw him lobs and call plays just to get him going as well. if it wasn't for ball propping miles up this year...... idk
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Re: Birdland Presents - The Miles Bridges Thread 

Post#829 » by JMAC3 » Thu Jan 21, 2021 9:05 pm

DY_nasty wrote:don't think its even a starting 5 thing... with the minutes he gets you'd simply expect a lot more than what he brings. like even with fewer minutes and less usage this year, he's somehow turning the ball over more?

we get roughly the same production out of miles that we did out of anthony tolliver - and this is again without putting in a guy just to throw him lobs and call plays just to get him going as well. if it wasn't for ball propping miles up this year...... idk


He is turning the ball over more because of our style of play change, our forwards are handling the ball more and we are playing at a faster pace. Guys who bring what Miles bring cost close to 10 million a year no matter what their age is, let alone as 23 year old third year player. If you do not think he can get any better then I don't know what to tell you. Go look at Kelly Oubre or Aaron Gordon first two years in the league.
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Re: Birdland Presents - The Miles Bridges Thread 

Post#830 » by DY_nasty » Thu Jan 21, 2021 9:32 pm

JMAC3 wrote:
DY_nasty wrote:don't think its even a starting 5 thing... with the minutes he gets you'd simply expect a lot more than what he brings. like even with fewer minutes and less usage this year, he's somehow turning the ball over more?

we get roughly the same production out of miles that we did out of anthony tolliver - and this is again without putting in a guy just to throw him lobs and call plays just to get him going as well. if it wasn't for ball propping miles up this year...... idk


He is turning the ball over more because of our style of play change, our forwards are handling the ball more and we are playing at a faster pace. Guys who bring what Miles bring cost close to 10 million a year no matter what their age is, let alone as 23 year old third year player. If you do not think he can get any better then I don't know what to tell you. Go look at Kelly Oubre or Aaron Gordon first two years in the league.

both those guys were clearly better from the jump tho

they just didn't get a free 25+ minutes a night with zero accountability/expectations like miles has been gifted his entire career

and if playing at a faster pace makes his turnover rate skyrocket then that's even more reason to wonder if he's able to keep up with how the team is changing....
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Re: Birdland Presents - The Miles Bridges Thread 

Post#831 » by BigSlam » Thu Jan 21, 2021 9:53 pm

DY_nasty wrote:we get roughly the same production out of miles that we did out of anthony tolliver - and this is again without putting in a guy just to throw him lobs and call plays just to get him going as well. if it wasn't for ball propping miles up this year...... idk

You’re not really comparing the production and/or game impact of Bridges to someone like Tolliver - are you?

Come on man, I get you don’t like Bridges, but that’s lazy and you’re better than that!!
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Re: Birdland Presents - The Miles Bridges Thread 

Post#832 » by DY_nasty » Thu Jan 21, 2021 10:05 pm

BigSlam wrote:
DY_nasty wrote:we get roughly the same production out of miles that we did out of anthony tolliver - and this is again without putting in a guy just to throw him lobs and call plays just to get him going as well. if it wasn't for ball propping miles up this year...... idk

You’re not really comparing the production and/or game impact of Bridges to someone like Tolliver - are you?

Come on man, I get you don’t like Bridges, but that’s lazy and you’re better than that!!

nah.

outside of the dunks and the rare good game every few weeks - this is still the same guy who couldn't take the starting job from zombie marvin williams and i'm just kinda tired of pretending otherwise.

*again - if lamelo wasn't elevating him, he'd be plainly worse this year than he was last year. i find it hard to believe guys would argue otherwise. if you guys feel otherwise on this point i'd love to hear it tbh

little stuff like "lamelo/bridges play great together" just rubs me the wrong way too because the PG of the future should be spending more time with the guy who just got 120 mil and not the guy who's still trying to find his footing in the league.

again, i'll happily pour A1 sauce all over my hat and eat it and i want to believe in the guy.... but i'm kinda tired of hoping he just 'figures it out' as if remembering you're the most athletic guy on the court most of the time is hard to recall. i really believe that if he was dumber he'd be a better player. i don't think i've ever held that opinion about a pro basketball player before.
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Re: Birdland Presents - The Miles Bridges Thread 

Post#833 » by James Gatz » Thu Jan 21, 2021 10:24 pm

DY_nasty wrote:
BigSlam wrote:
DY_nasty wrote:we get roughly the same production out of miles that we did out of anthony tolliver - and this is again without putting in a guy just to throw him lobs and call plays just to get him going as well. if it wasn't for ball propping miles up this year...... idk

You’re not really comparing the production and/or game impact of Bridges to someone like Tolliver - are you?

Come on man, I get you don’t like Bridges, but that’s lazy and you’re better than that!!

nah.

*again - if lamelo wasn't elevating him, he'd be plainly worse this year than he was last year. i find it hard to believe guys would argue otherwise. if you guys feel otherwise on this point i'd love to hear it tbh


For the record, when Miles + Melo play together we are -3.6 net rating. ie were worse with them on the floor together by a decent margin, which is about the same of what our current starting lineup is.

Worth noting, the best pair is Graham + Miles though at 10.6

I'm in the camp of being okay with moving Miles or keeping him as long as it's not an overpay, something I'd be very worried about based on our history. His ceiling is solid/low end starter on a playoff team. It's really too bad he's not 4 inches taller. It's clear at this point his natural position is the 4, not the 3.
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Re: Birdland Presents - The Miles Bridges Thread 

Post#834 » by JDR720 » Thu Jan 21, 2021 10:33 pm

Miles needs to learn to get to the line to be an above average player. He is shooting 93% this season, and 80% for his career. But he only takes 1.4 per game...for his entire career.

That means he has more games with 0 attempts than games with 2+ attempts, which is terrible for anyone but especially bad for an athletic wing.

Right now, I'd say he is solidly below average at almost everything. He is a specialist without a specialty.
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Re: Birdland Presents - The Miles Bridges Thread 

Post#835 » by SWedd523 » Thu Jan 21, 2021 10:35 pm

JMAC3 wrote:
DY_nasty wrote:don't think its even a starting 5 thing... with the minutes he gets you'd simply expect a lot more than what he brings. like even with fewer minutes and less usage this year, he's somehow turning the ball over more?

we get roughly the same production out of miles that we did out of anthony tolliver - and this is again without putting in a guy just to throw him lobs and call plays just to get him going as well. if it wasn't for ball propping miles up this year...... idk


He is turning the ball over more because of our style of play change, our forwards are handling the ball more and we are playing at a faster pace. Guys who bring what Miles bring cost close to 10 million a year no matter what their age is, let alone as 23 year old third year player. If you do not think he can get any better then I don't know what to tell you. Go look at Kelly Oubre or Aaron Gordon first two years in the league.

The Clippers grabbed a dude off waivers (Nic Batum) who gives you 9/5/2 on solid percentages and average defense.

Seriously. 9/5/2 is replacement level production. UDFA Caleb Martin can give you that if you give him more minutes. Richaun Holmes is giving better production for $5mil

There's no reason to lock into Miles long term. The Hornets are not in the position to lock up role players long term. They don't even have a #1 option yet
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Re: Birdland Presents - The Miles Bridges Thread 

Post#836 » by JMAC3 » Thu Jan 21, 2021 10:52 pm

SWedd523 wrote:
JMAC3 wrote:
DY_nasty wrote:don't think its even a starting 5 thing... with the minutes he gets you'd simply expect a lot more than what he brings. like even with fewer minutes and less usage this year, he's somehow turning the ball over more?

we get roughly the same production out of miles that we did out of anthony tolliver - and this is again without putting in a guy just to throw him lobs and call plays just to get him going as well. if it wasn't for ball propping miles up this year...... idk


He is turning the ball over more because of our style of play change, our forwards are handling the ball more and we are playing at a faster pace. Guys who bring what Miles bring cost close to 10 million a year no matter what their age is, let alone as 23 year old third year player. If you do not think he can get any better then I don't know what to tell you. Go look at Kelly Oubre or Aaron Gordon first two years in the league.

The Clippers grabbed a dude off waivers (Nic Batum) who gives you 9/5/2 on solid percentages and average defense.

Seriously. 9/5/2 is replacement level production. UDFA Caleb Martin can give you that if you give him more minutes. Richaun Holmes is giving better production for $5mil

There's no reason to lock into Miles long term. The Hornets are not in the position to lock up role players long term. They don't even have a #1 option yet


I mean if you are going to cherry pick guys who are doing well on cheap contracts, then you should never pay anyone. Holmes was not good on his rookie contract and it took him getting to his third team and getting spoon fed to him to break out.

Just seems like a counterproductive argument at this point, because he still has two years to improve before we have to pay him.
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Re: Birdland Presents - The Miles Bridges Thread 

Post#837 » by DY_nasty » Thu Jan 21, 2021 10:59 pm

is it really cherry picking?

this isn't a high bar we're asking for with miles at all. like the guy literally has no expectations put on him lol
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Re: Birdland Presents - The Miles Bridges Thread 

Post#838 » by BigSlam » Thu Jan 21, 2021 11:11 pm

DY_nasty wrote:outside of the dunks and the rare good game every few weeks - this is still the same guy who couldn't take the starting job from zombie marvin williams and i'm just kinda tired of pretending otherwise.

*again - if lamelo wasn't elevating him, he'd be plainly worse this year than he was last year. i find it hard to believe guys would argue otherwise. if you guys feel otherwise on this point i'd love to hear it tbh

little stuff like "lamelo/bridges play great together" just rubs me the wrong way too because the PG of the future should be spending more time with the guy who just got 120 mil and not the guy who's still trying to find his footing in the league.

again, i'll happily pour A1 sauce all over my hat and eat it and i want to believe in the guy.... but i'm kinda tired of hoping he just 'figures it out' as if remembering you're the most athletic guy on the court most of the time is hard to recall. i really believe that if he was dumber he'd be a better player. i don't think i've ever held that opinion about a pro basketball player before.

Don’t get me wrong: If we can cash Bridges in for a future 1st and try to luck out on drafting a better player than he is or trade him for a position of need (a young 5) then I’d be for it.

I also wouldn’t be gutted if we signed him to a 2 or 3 year deal at $10mil or so a year either.

But to compare him to someone like Tolliver is selling Bridges wayyyyyyy too short IMO.

Bridges might not be a star player, but he’s not a donkey either.

And he’s also better than a plethora of wings who have passed through our roster as well.
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Re: Birdland Presents - The Miles Bridges Thread 

Post#839 » by JMAC3 » Thu Jan 21, 2021 11:30 pm

DY_nasty wrote:is it really cherry picking?

this isn't a high bar we're asking for with miles at all. like the guy literally has no expectations put on him lol


It is cherry picking if you pick the best performing players who are making peanuts at all different positions.

I think it is more telling to look at the amount of guys who make 10-18 million at his position and compare him to those guys. The reason that wings/forwards continue to make this money is because good ones are in high demand and teams continue to be willing to pay for them because the bottom of the barrel guys are not good enough.

All these guys make 10-18 million per season, because teams see the value in these players with size and skill.
Aaron Gordon
Marcus Morris
Rudy Gay
Iggy
Oubre
Thad Young
Davis Bertans
Robert Covington
James Johnson
Justice Winslow
Ariza
Taurean Prince
Snell
Larry Nance
Dillon Brooks

Now Lets look at the guys (excluding guys on rookie deals) making under 7 Million per year (Your discount guys who are easy to find)
Demarre Carroll
Jake Layman
Markeiff Morris
Jabari Parker
Trey Lyles
Patrick Peterson
Harry Giles
Moe Harkless
James Ennis
Carmelo Anthony
Solomon Hill
Glen Robinson III

Not a very inspiring second list to find great values off of. The first list has some definite misses, but what that tells me is that there will be demand for Miles in free agency by at least a handful of teams.
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Re: Birdland Presents - The Miles Bridges Thread 

Post#840 » by DY_nasty » Fri Jan 22, 2021 1:11 am

JMAC3 wrote:
DY_nasty wrote:is it really cherry picking?

this isn't a high bar we're asking for with miles at all. like the guy literally has no expectations put on him lol


It is cherry picking if you pick the best performing players who are making peanuts at all different positions.

I think it is more telling to look at the amount of guys who make 10-18 million at his position and compare him to those guys. The reason that wings/forwards continue to make this money is because good ones are in high demand and teams continue to be willing to pay for them because the bottom of the barrel guys are not good enough.

All these guys make 10-18 million per season, because teams see the value in these players with size and skill.
Aaron Gordon
Marcus Morris
Rudy Gay
Iggy
Oubre
Thad Young
Davis Bertans
Robert Covington
James Johnson
Justice Winslow
Ariza
Taurean Prince
Snell
Larry Nance
Dillon Brooks

Now Lets look at the guys (excluding guys on rookie deals) making under 7 Million per year (Your discount guys who are easy to find)
Demarre Carroll
Jake Layman
Markeiff Morris
Jabari Parker
Trey Lyles
Patrick Peterson
Harry Giles
Moe Harkless
James Ennis
Carmelo Anthony
Solomon Hill
Glen Robinson III

Not a very inspiring second list to find great values off of. The first list has some definite misses, but what that tells me is that there will be demand for Miles in free agency by at least a handful of teams.

this really doesn't address anything i'm talking about tho. nor did i get into other positions outside of the remarks where people act like miles is worth keeping around for his ability to play or guard the 4 - he can't anyways but we've got a better natural 4 in PJ

and the biggest fault in this logic of looking around the league at bad deals/signings is assuming we have to do the same thing. i have no idea why that's the guard rail each time you pull from an argument. its lazy. "we should keep miles because we could be the team signing solomon hill"

or

OR we could not. that's an option too. you know - being the good team that doesn't make a dumb signing and hamstring itself out of fear/risk aversion. it'd be nice to have that good team.

i didn't even list anyone better really i think. its really not hard to find guys who are better than miles or do something similar....
BigSlam wrote:
DY_nasty wrote:outside of the dunks and the rare good game every few weeks - this is still the same guy who couldn't take the starting job from zombie marvin williams and i'm just kinda tired of pretending otherwise.

*again - if lamelo wasn't elevating him, he'd be plainly worse this year than he was last year. i find it hard to believe guys would argue otherwise. if you guys feel otherwise on this point i'd love to hear it tbh

little stuff like "lamelo/bridges play great together" just rubs me the wrong way too because the PG of the future should be spending more time with the guy who just got 120 mil and not the guy who's still trying to find his footing in the league.

again, i'll happily pour A1 sauce all over my hat and eat it and i want to believe in the guy.... but i'm kinda tired of hoping he just 'figures it out' as if remembering you're the most athletic guy on the court most of the time is hard to recall. i really believe that if he was dumber he'd be a better player. i don't think i've ever held that opinion about a pro basketball player before.

Don’t get me wrong: If we can cash Bridges in for a future 1st and try to luck out on drafting a better player than he is or trade him for a position of need (a young 5) then I’d be for it.

I also wouldn’t be gutted if we signed him to a 2 or 3 year deal at $10mil or so a year either.

But to compare him to someone like Tolliver is selling Bridges wayyyyyyy too short IMO.

Bridges might not be a star player, but he’s not a donkey either.

And he’s also better than a plethora of wings who have passed through our roster as well.
is he?

outside of the dunks man what's he got going for him? he's not a lockdown defender, streaky shooter, he can' rebound, doesn't drive, turns the ball over whether he gets the ball at the beginning of a possession or at the end, vanishes for huge stretches of time....

what are we even excited about with him anymore? at least with tolliver we knew what we were getting each time he stepped on the court lol. hell, miles doesn't even have a role. we just put him in the game and collectively hope he does something.

maybe the tolliver stuff is too unpleasant because dude was super bald and super boring - but would you even say he's CDR good? we both know he's not even close to mcbob territory yet :lol:

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