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Fake Trade Thread 2

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Re: Fake Trade Thread 2 

Post#1641 » by yosemiteben » Fri Feb 7, 2020 12:13 am

316Hornets wrote:
yosemiteben wrote:We are in a prolonged tank yet made no move to acquire any assets, opting instead to let all our FAs walk for nothing.

We kicked off this tank by letting our biggest asset hit the UFA market, then "salvaged" his departure by S&T'ing for a PG that doesn't fit our rebuild schedule and in a best case scenario hurts our rebuild and draft position by winning us games.

WTF are we doing?


NOT shooting ourselves in the foot

We should have traded anyone not in our rebuild plans for any draft consideration we could.

Doing nothing in a rebuild is not the smart move.
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Re: Fake Trade Thread 2 

Post#1642 » by 316Hornets » Fri Feb 7, 2020 1:43 am

yosemiteben wrote:
316Hornets wrote:
yosemiteben wrote:We are in a prolonged tank yet made no move to acquire any assets, opting instead to let all our FAs walk for nothing.

We kicked off this tank by letting our biggest asset hit the UFA market, then "salvaged" his departure by S&T'ing for a PG that doesn't fit our rebuild schedule and in a best case scenario hurts our rebuild and draft position by winning us games.

WTF are we doing?


NOT shooting ourselves in the foot

We should have traded anyone not in our rebuild plans for any draft consideration we could.

Doing nothing in a rebuild is not the smart move.



I'm going to assume there was no market at all for Biz or MKG.

So, we were basically just working with Marv as an expiring asset. Maybe Marv wants to stick around here on a cheap contract? Maybe the team just didn't see the value of a 2nd round pick and will just buyout Marv if he wants to go somewhere.

At the end of the day, it could have gone a lot worse. My hope now is that we are able to tank to a top 5 pick and then see what type of free agents there are in a tight market.
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Re: Fake Trade Thread 2 

Post#1643 » by stinger14 » Fri Feb 7, 2020 2:00 am

Soul Rebel wrote:
stinger14 wrote:
Chapelchilla wrote:Not if we are trying to gain future assets for guys we have no interest in keeping around for that future


Maybe the offers were not good enough.

Look at it this way,
What if we had traded Marv for a 2nd to a playoff team? Well that pick is mid to late 2nd round

Or, we let Marv, MKG, and Biz all expire at seasons end giving us lots of cap space. Then a team comes calling wanting to dump a 1-2 year big contract, because they want cap space to sign a free agent. That team offers a 1st round pick to take that contract.

Getting any 1st round pick is obviously better than a mid to late 2nd


This latter part is 100% my hopes and dreams.

We snag our franchise guy with hopefully a top-3 pick this draft year. Then, take on a bloated contract for a year and gain a first in '21. Then, move our '21 1st, the acquired '21 1st, Rozier and something else (maybe a future first) for someone like KAT or Markkanen.

Too many folks (not necessarily on this board) are focusing on playing checkers and not chess. I commend our FO for staying pat today and maximizing our draft position this year and $$ for the summer of '21.


This is exactly what I was thinking too....be patient, let guys like PJ continue to learn from a guy like Marv while executing this type of plan
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Re: Fake Trade Thread 2 

Post#1644 » by Soul Rebel » Fri Feb 7, 2020 2:12 am

yosemiteben wrote:We are in a prolonged tank yet made no move to acquire any assets, opting instead to let all our FAs walk for nothing.

We kicked off this tank by letting our biggest asset hit the UFA market, then "salvaged" his departure by S&T'ing for a PG that doesn't fit our rebuild schedule and in a best case scenario hurts our rebuild and draft position by winning us games.

WTF are we doing?


I know he's not Kemba, but Terry has exceeded expectations this year. Yes, we have 9 less wins at this point compared to the 51 game mark in 18-19, but Rozier isn't the reason we are losing these games. Terry definitely isn't hurting our draft position either.

His style is not what I want on this team once we are hitting our pace in a few years, but we weren't going anywhere above the 6 seed with Kemba and his contract.

I can honestly say that I have enjoyed watching the Hornets more this year than of recent past.... and Kemba is by far my favorite player in the league, and all-time Hornet.
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Re: Fake Trade Thread 2 

Post#1645 » by yosemiteben » Fri Feb 7, 2020 2:22 am

316Hornets wrote:Maybe Marv wants to stick around here on a cheap contract? Maybe the team just didn't see the value of a 2nd round pick and will just buyout Marv if he wants to go somewhere.

Who cares what Marv wants? And wtf is the point of a rebuild if you just arbitrarily decide you don't value draft picks?

My issue is that there does not appear to be any holistic strategy. Did signing Rozier mean we are going to better off at the end of the rebuild than we would without him? I don't see how that's true. We act like Mitch should be praised for preserving cap space for this summer, but we'd get a better draft pick and have more cap space to do creative things with if Rozier wasn't on the roster.
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Re: Fake Trade Thread 2 

Post#1646 » by 316Hornets » Fri Feb 7, 2020 2:26 am

yosemiteben wrote:
316Hornets wrote:Maybe Marv wants to stick around here on a cheap contract? Maybe the team just didn't see the value of a 2nd round pick and will just buyout Marv if he wants to go somewhere.

Who cares what Marv wants? And wtf is the point of a rebuild if you just arbitrarily decide you don't value draft picks?

My issue is that there does not appear to be any holistic strategy. Did signing Rozier mean we are going to better off at the end of the rebuild than we would without him? I don't see how that's true. We act like Mitch should be praised for preserving cap space for this summer, but we'd get a better draft pick and have more cap space to do creative things with if Rozier wasn't on the roster.


Rozier has proven to be an asset. His contract lessens about 1 mil a year. At 27 years old, he will be nearing the peak for a PG, and making 17.9 mil. If we didn't get Rozier, we would've got nothing. At anytime, we could move him for another player or protected 1st. No offense to Graham, but his handle isn't all there. Asking him to carry on more usage would probably stunt his development since we have no real ballhandlers.
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Re: Fake Trade Thread 2 

Post#1647 » by yosemiteben » Fri Feb 7, 2020 2:30 am

That would make sense if our goal was something other than taking to build via the draft, but we're in a rebuild and all Rozier does is tie up cap space and do his part to help keep us from the top of the draft.

I didn't want to rebuild and tank, but we're here. If we're going to do this we should make it worth it. There is no defensible reason for Rozier to be on the roster - I'd rather have a higher pick and more cap space as opposed to having a better PG in seasons where we're not going to sniff the playoffs and need to maximize our return in the draft. Terry gets us nothing.

If the real goal is to trade him for a first at some point, I'd argue we would have been better off creatively using his cap space rather than tying it up on a player that hurts our tank and whose ability to bring back meaningful draft assets is extremely speculative.
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Re: Fake Trade Thread 2 

Post#1648 » by BlackOutBuzz » Fri Feb 7, 2020 3:44 am

So this isn't super official or anything, but taking a cursory look - and assuming Drummond either opts in or re-signs with Cleveland - these are the teams projected to have cap space this offseason (as far as I can tell):

Atlanta
Charlotte
Detroit
Miami
New York

That's it, that's the list.

Of course, some teams can make room with some renouncements, but the FA class is so bad it's likely not worth it in most scenarios.

Leave it to Charlotte to have both cap room and a high draft pick on a year with slim pickings in the draft and free agency.

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Re: Fake Trade Thread 2 

Post#1649 » by Diop » Fri Feb 7, 2020 7:00 am

I thought bit into their cap space with their 2 centres?

I guess no one really wanted our vets or wanted us to take back money, so they went with cap space instead .
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Re: Fake Trade Thread 2 

Post#1650 » by -Ian- » Fri Feb 7, 2020 10:22 am

I don't know how but I have a feeling Mitch will go after Ingram this summer.
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Re: Fake Trade Thread 2 

Post#1651 » by Robot Rock » Fri Feb 7, 2020 2:06 pm

-Ian- wrote:I don't know how but I have a feeling Mitch will go after Ingram this summer.


I don't think so. Ingram has some sort of quality they don't like.
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Re: Fake Trade Thread 2 

Post#1652 » by Rays Pompadour » Fri Feb 7, 2020 2:10 pm

Same as free agency. I kept waiting for something to happen, and...nothing. This season has been a complete reset.
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Re: Fake Trade Thread 2 

Post#1653 » by Robot Rock » Fri Feb 7, 2020 2:26 pm

yosemiteben wrote:That would make sense if our goal was something other than taking to build via the draft, but we're in a rebuild and all Rozier does is tie up cap space and do his part to help keep us from the top of the draft.

I didn't want to rebuild and tank, but we're here. If we're going to do this we should make it worth it. There is no defensible reason for Rozier to be on the roster - I'd rather have a higher pick and more cap space as opposed to having a better PG in seasons where we're not going to sniff the playoffs and need to maximize our return in the draft. Terry gets us nothing.

If the real goal is to trade him for a first at some point, I'd argue we would have been better off creatively using his cap space rather than tying it up on a player that hurts our tank and whose ability to bring back meaningful draft assets is extremely speculative.


We've lost 11 of our last 12 games with Rozier in the lineup. Clearly, he's not keeping us from tanking.

I personally find it amusing that there's a sect of the pro-tank crowd who get mad when we lose and talk about how we suck when the point of tanking is to lose, not win.
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Re: Fake Trade Thread 2 

Post#1654 » by Chapelchilla » Fri Feb 7, 2020 3:52 pm

After having stewed on the whole no moves trade deadline a bit, I have come around some. I think they were not ready to give up on Monk yet, which may still prove beneficial in the future even though I have my doubts.
MKG, Biz and Batum were untradeable. They seem to love Cody and Marv as the good citizen types in our FO, I guess that is understandable. Cody is cheap enough to keep for next year and see what we get in the draft. I figure Marv told Jordan he didn't want to move and Jordan was fine with not moving him against his wishes for a late 2nd rounder. Being that Marv is a UNC guy Jordan has known since he was a teenager, I think he gets that courtesy.
I hope we play all the young guys including both Martins heavily down the stretch and find creative, entertaining ways to lose our way into a top 3 pick.
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Re: Fake Trade Thread 2 

Post#1655 » by BlackOutBuzz » Fri Feb 7, 2020 5:03 pm

Diop wrote:I thought bit into their cap space with their 2 centres?

I guess no one really wanted our vets or wanted us to take back money, so they went with cap space instead .
Atlanta (I assume you're referencing) did cut into their space a bit - in fact Capela and Dedmon more than double their team salary next season - but every other player they have is on a rookie deal.

I imagine they'll be the team most willing to spend a bit in this upcoming FA class.

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Re: Fake Trade Thread 2 

Post#1656 » by yosemiteben » Fri Feb 7, 2020 5:25 pm

Robot Rock wrote:We've lost 11 of our last 12 games with Rozier in the lineup. Clearly, he's not keeping us from tanking.

If we don't want to win games this season, why exactly are we paying him $18M, especially if we're going to use "preserving cap space" as a reason not to make moves that enhance our rebuild? He's eating up cap space for no benefit.

Robot Rock wrote:I personally find it amusing that there's a sect of the pro-tank crowd who get mad when we lose and talk about how we suck when the point of tanking is to lose, not win.

I'm not sure that sect exists. I'm not sure of anyone that supported us tanking that is now upset that we are tanking.

I do think people may be frustrated that our prospects are underperforming. I find that pretty reasonable though.
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Re: Fake Trade Thread 2 

Post#1657 » by amcoolio » Fri Feb 7, 2020 8:06 pm

Rozier is playing well enough where he could be traded on a manageable contract next offseason or season

Not mad about not finding deals, MKG really has no value and Marvin appears to be finally sapped of energy. Rather just have everyone expire and finally have a pretty clean capsheet, then work from there.
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Re: Fake Trade Thread 2 

Post#1658 » by Soul Rebel » Fri Feb 7, 2020 8:14 pm

I know there were rumors about DET looking to offload Kennard. Any chance they re-visit that over the summer? He'll be 24 at the start of the new season and still has 1 yr + QO after that on his current deal.

With the dumpster fire that is DET, I wonder if we could get a good deal on him this summer if we miss out on Edwards/Ball.
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Re: Fake Trade Thread 2 

Post#1659 » by DY_nasty » Fri Feb 7, 2020 9:24 pm

yosemiteben wrote:We are in a prolonged tank yet made no move to acquire any assets, opting instead to let all our FAs walk for nothing.

We kicked off this tank by letting our biggest asset hit the UFA market, then "salvaged" his departure by S&T'ing for a PG that doesn't fit our rebuild schedule and in a best case scenario hurts our rebuild and draft position by winning us games.

WTF are we doing?

letting FA's walk for nothing is kinda the move...

especially when other teams have to give up assets to shed salary.
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Re: Fake Trade Thread 2 

Post#1660 » by Robot Rock » Sat Feb 8, 2020 1:21 am

yosemiteben wrote:
Robot Rock wrote:We've lost 11 of our last 12 games with Rozier in the lineup. Clearly, he's not keeping us from tanking.

If we don't want to win games this season, why exactly are we paying him $18M, especially if we're going to use "preserving cap space" as a reason not to make moves that enhance our rebuild? He's eating up cap space for no benefit.

Robot Rock wrote:I personally find it amusing that there's a sect of the pro-tank crowd who get mad when we lose and talk about how we suck when the point of tanking is to lose, not win.

I'm not sure that sect exists. I'm not sure of anyone that supported us tanking that is now upset that we are tanking.

I do think people may be frustrated that our prospects are underperforming. I find that pretty reasonable though.


Who is underperforming? The second-year PG who’s emerged as our best player? The second-year swing forward who’s been our most stable scorer of late? The rookie PF? Monk, who’s turned a corner?

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