Re-Signed: The PJ Washington Jr. Thread (3yrs/$48m)

amcoolio · Post #501 » by **amcoolio** » Wed May 18, 2022 3:30 pm

From Lowe

Washington had no real good luck charms on stage, he said before the show. He did say he would like to reach an agreement on an extension with the Hornets this summer. Much of his family, including his sister recently, has moved to Charlotte. "I love Charlotte," Washington said. "I want to be there. They took a chance on me, and my whole family is in Charlotte now."

Liver_Pooty · Post #502 » by **Liver_Pooty** » Wed May 18, 2022 3:37 pm

amcoolio wrote:From Lowe

Washington had no real good luck charms on stage, he said before the show. He did say he would like to reach an agreement on an extension with the Hornets this summer. Much of his family, including his sister recently, has moved to Charlotte. "I love Charlotte," Washington said. "I want to be there. They took a chance on me, and my whole family is in Charlotte now."

I'd like to see us agree to an extension with him as well.

JMAC3 · Post #503 » by **JMAC3** » Wed May 18, 2022 4:39 pm

What does a PJ extension look like?

Something similar to Wendell Carter?

Post #504 » by **yosemiteben** » Wed May 18, 2022 4:49 pm

I do think it was notable that PJ was picked to represent the team at the lottery. Graham did in 2020 and then was shipped out the following offseason, but he also at the time was probably penciled in as our long term starter.

SWedd523 · Post #505 » by **SWedd523** » Wed May 18, 2022 5:04 pm

I don't think PJ is a needle mover, so signing him to a long term deal is going to be an immediate mistake

JMAC3 · Post #506 » by **JMAC3** » Wed May 18, 2022 5:14 pm

SWedd523 wrote:I don't think PJ is a needle mover, so signing him to a long term deal is going to be an immediate mistake

You never want us to sign anyone haha

What are you saving all this cap space for? We signing 38 year Steph?

chabber · Post #507 » by **chabber** » Wed May 18, 2022 5:20 pm

PJ is someone you want to keep. 6'7", spaces the floor, plays defense when focused and contract controlled. I don't even think it's a good idea to trade him unless you getting back a legit talent. He's a guy who you can see playing on the Heat or Celtics and contributing on both ends and allowing you to play 5 out. You need as many of these types as possible.

SWedd523 · Post #508 » by **SWedd523** » Wed May 18, 2022 5:21 pm

JMAC3 wrote:
SWedd523 wrote:I don't think PJ is a needle mover, so signing him to a long term deal is going to be an immediate mistake

You never want us to sign anyone haha

What are you saving all this cap space for? We signing 38 year Steph?

I don't want them to repeat the same mistakes they've always done.

You remember when they ruined the Kemba era by effectively locking the team long term into Cody Zeller, Marvin Williams, and Nicolas Batum?

This team has a demonstrated lack of ability to asset manage. We've seen it over and over again. Good teams cut bait with guys who don't move the needle. Bad teams have the "we can't lose this guy!" mindset and keep that wheel of mediocrity running.

And besides, aren't you one of the ones pining for a consolidation trade?

SWedd523 · Post #509 » by **SWedd523** » Wed May 18, 2022 5:21 pm

chabber wrote:PJ is someone you want to keep. 6'7", spaces the floor, plays defense when focused and contract controlled. I don't even think it's a good idea to trade him unless you getting back a legit talent. He's a guy who you can see playing on the Heat or Celtics and contributing on both ends and allowing you to play 5 out. You need as many of these types as possible.

Certainly depends on the contract you give him.

If he takes a bench player contract then sure. If he expects 4-5 years at starter or starter+ money then absolutely not.

Post #510 » by **JDR720** » Wed May 18, 2022 5:22 pm

JMAC3 · Post #511 » by **JMAC3** » Wed May 18, 2022 5:59 pm

SWedd523 wrote:This team has a demonstrated lack of ability to asset manage. We've seen it over and over again. Good teams cut bait with guys who don't move the needle. Bad teams have the "we can't lose this guy!" mindset and keep that wheel of mediocrity running.

Good teams are teams with great players.

If you have great players, you pay them whatever you want. You keep them and you're good.

If you have okay players, and you let them walk. You can sign other okay players. There are never greatplayers just floating around the league signing with small market teams.

We aren't going to have cap space regardless, so I would just sign PJ and use him as a trade asset, vs losing him for nothing and then still have no cap space to sign anyone else.

SWedd523 · Post #512 » by **SWedd523** » Wed May 18, 2022 6:47 pm

So..... are we calling PJ a great player now?

We aren't going to have cap space regardless, so I would just sign PJ and use him as a trade asset, vs losing him for nothing and then still have no cap space to sign anyone else.

Doing **** like this is, uh, exactly the reason why you never have cap space....

Self licking ice cream cone

Post #513 » by **fatlever** » Wed May 18, 2022 7:15 pm

I've done a 180 on PJ in the second half of the season. I thought he was really good once he was moved to power forward. He's one of the most versatile Defenders on the team. He may actually be the only other plus defender on the team besides Cody. That's our ability to do to him as a small ball 5 at times is extremely valuable. I don't think he'll ever be a borderline all-star, but he could be our version of a PJ Tucker Jae Crowder type as he continues to grow into that role.

Sent from my SM-G973U using RealGM Forums mobile app

SWedd523 · Post #514 » by **SWedd523** » Wed May 18, 2022 7:42 pm

For reference, PJ Tucker has never signed for more than the MLE and Crowder is on a 3/~29 contract

JMAC3 · Post #515 » by **JMAC3** » Wed May 18, 2022 7:48 pm

SWedd523 wrote:For reference, PJ Tucker has never signed for more than the MLE and Crowder is on a 3/~29 contract

Pj Tucker also didn't become a real free agent until he was 29 and also the Max contract used to be like 15 million dollars back then, so not sure comparing him to PJ makes a ton of sense.

JMAC3 · Post #516 » by **JMAC3** » Wed May 18, 2022 7:51 pm

SWedd523 wrote:So..... are we calling PJ a great player now?

We aren't going to have cap space regardless, so I would just sign PJ and use him as a trade asset, vs losing him for nothing and then still have no cap space to sign anyone else.

Doing **** like this is, uh, exactly the reason why you never have cap space....

Self licking ice cream cone

I never said PJ was great. I said great teams have great players.

My point is, if signing PJ meant we were passing on all these opportunities to sign great players I might agree. But look at free agency these days. All the great players sign extensions and aren't moving teams in FA. If they are its to go to LA or Brooklyn I guess.

Giving up on good players doesn't really accomplish much.

JMAC3 · Post #517 » by **JMAC3** » Wed May 18, 2022 7:57 pm

No lie Klay Thompson signed a "MAX" contract with Warriors for 4/70 million dollars in 2014.

amcoolio · Post #518 » by **amcoolio** » Wed May 18, 2022 8:31 pm

4/60 is the most I would offer, which is about what Marvin Williams got but inflated for today's salary cap

SWedd523 · Post #519 » by **SWedd523** » Wed May 18, 2022 8:37 pm

JMAC3 wrote:No lie Klay Thompson signed a "MAX" contract with Warriors for 4/70 million dollars in 2014.

Luckily the MLE scales to the Salary Cap, so it doesn't really matter since he's topped out at MLE money. I'd also argue he's a more impactful player than PJ.

Crowder JUST signed his 3/29 deal. Are we saying PJ is better in a vacuum? Is he worth more than that?

Small market teams do well when they maximize assets and get the most value possible. Carrying a negative asset (4/60 for example) isn't going to help you get anywhere other than tying up 15 million a year you could've thrown at a B or A tier guy who looks at Melo as a viable star to play with.

Can you replace PJs production for under $15mil? I'd argue definitely yes.

SWedd523 · Post #520 » by **SWedd523** » Wed May 18, 2022 8:40 pm

For better or worse, this team is on the Melo Timeline.

Do you think he's going to stick around long term with a capped out team that rosters Rozier, Hayward, Miles, and PJ?

Is that a championship contender? Does it beat any of the top 5-6 teams in the East? No? Then you should probably cut your losses and do everything you can to change that status quo.

Melo sure as hell won't stick around for mediocrity like Kemba did. They're on the clock