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Not Revisionist History: Post LaMelo Ball thoughts

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Re: Not Revisionist History: Hornets Board 'On Record' about draft/FA/trades 

Post#41 » by KEMBAtheMETEOR » Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:58 am

Here's what all my picks would've been from the Kemba era onwards

2011: #7 - Biyombo, #9 - Kawhi (I don't think he becomes anywhere near this good under any circumstances though), no idea about #39
2012: #2 - Drummond, #31 - Quincy Miller
2013: #4 - Noel (I really wanted to trade out or down, and that looks like the right call)
2014: #9 - Vonleh, #24 - Napier
2015: #9 - Winslow
2016: #22 - straight up didn't care
2017: #11 - Monk, #31 - Thornwell
2018: #11 - SGA, no idea about the 2nd rounders, I don't remember if we even had one before the trades
2019: #12 - honestly no clue, I was sure one of Hachimura or Hayes would fall, but wanted to trade down or out again. #36 - Admiral Schoefield
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Re: Not Revisionist History: Hornets Board 'On Record' about draft/FA/trades 

Post#42 » by UNCNYC » Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:56 pm

I wanted to add that I was and still am totally against the PJ Washington and Cody Martin picks, and although my picks were

#12 - NAW, #36 - Joshua Obeisie, #52- Tyler Cook

I AM totally in favor of the #52 pick Jalen Mcdanials (I rated him ahead of Zion and right behind Luka Samanic for best PF's available) who I am very high on, as well as I am also in favor of adding Kerwin Roach (who I once had tops for consideration for our #36 pick) to summer league. I like both of those player quite a bit and think they can stick around for a while.
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Re: Not Revisionist History: Hornets Board 'On Record' about draft/FA/trades 

Post#43 » by BeesWax » Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:10 pm

I like the PJ pick and think he will be a solid player for us. Fits well with what we want our 4s to do and can play some small ball 5 IMO.

Martin was a stretch for me. I like him as a player but don’t. Like the value in the pick. Would rather take a flier on a high ceiling guy like Bol or Porter and hope Martin fell to 52. Like his skill set and don’t mind having him but just not at that spot.
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Re: Not Revisionist History: Hornets Board 'On Record' about draft/FA/trades 

Post#44 » by Najee12 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:57 pm

BizGilwalker wrote:Here's what all my picks would've been from the Kemba era onwards

2011: #7 - Biyombo, #9 - Kawhi (I don't think he becomes anywhere near this good under any circumstances though), no idea about #39
2012: #2 - Drummond, #31 - Quincy Miller
2013: #4 - Noel (I really wanted to trade out or down, and that looks like the right call)
2014: #9 - Vonleh, #24 - Napier
2015: #9 - Winslow
2016: #22 - straight up didn't care
2017: #11 - Monk, #31 - Thornwell
2018: #11 - SGA, no idea about the 2nd rounders, I don't remember if we even had one before the trades
2019: #12 - honestly no clue, I was sure one of Hachimura or Hayes would fall, but wanted to trade down or out again. #36 - Admiral Schoefield


Here are my picks since 2011:

2011: Klay Thompson (No. 7), Kemba Walker (No. 9)
2012: Bradley Beal (No. 3)
2013: Ben McLemore (No. 4)
2014: Zach Lavine (No. 9), Bogdan Bogdanovic (No. 24)
2015: Devin Booker (No. 9) (though I would have taken the four first-round picks from Boston if presented)
2017: Donovan Mitchell (No. 11)
2018: Shai Gilgeous-Alexander (No. 11)
2019: Sekou Doumboya (No. 12); traded the two second-rounders to move up and take K.Z. Okpala
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Re: Not Revisionist History: Hornets Board 'On Record' about draft/FA/trades 

Post#45 » by JMAC3 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:14 pm

Najee12 wrote:
BizGilwalker wrote:Here's what all my picks would've been from the Kemba era onwards

2011: #7 - Biyombo, #9 - Kawhi (I don't think he becomes anywhere near this good under any circumstances though), no idea about #39
2012: #2 - Drummond, #31 - Quincy Miller
2013: #4 - Noel (I really wanted to trade out or down, and that looks like the right call)
2014: #9 - Vonleh, #24 - Napier
2015: #9 - Winslow
2016: #22 - straight up didn't care
2017: #11 - Monk, #31 - Thornwell
2018: #11 - SGA, no idea about the 2nd rounders, I don't remember if we even had one before the trades
2019: #12 - honestly no clue, I was sure one of Hachimura or Hayes would fall, but wanted to trade down or out again. #36 - Admiral Schoefield


Here are my picks since 2011:

2011: Klay Thompson (No. 7), Kemba Walker (No. 9)
2012: Bradley Beal (No. 3)
2013: Ben McLemore (No. 4)
2014: Zach Lavine (No. 9), Bogdan Bogdanovic (No. 24)
2015: Devin Booker (No. 9) (though I would have taken the four first-round picks from Boston if presented)
2017: Donovan Mitchell (No. 11)
2018: Shai Gilgeous-Alexander (No. 11)
2019: Sekou Doumboya (No. 12); traded the two second-rounders to move up and take K.Z. Okpala


So just shooting guard every year lol


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My picks 

Post#46 » by Najee12 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 8:40 pm

JMAC3 wrote:So just shooting guard every year lol


Hey, you can go only so far with Gerald Henderson as your starting shooting guard. Obviously, I would have chosen someone else in later years but Henderson just was not the answer as a starter.
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Re: Not Revisionist History: Hornets Board 'On Record' about draft/FA/trades 

Post#47 » by 316Hornets » Sun Jun 30, 2019 1:07 am

316Hornets wrote:Well, 1st, I would've traded the #12 and moved back. Seeing what kind of names were available, I'd think there was some team out there that would bite. But, barring no trades, my picks would've been:

#12 - PJ
#36 - Bol Bol
#52 - No idea



If I knew Kemba was leaving, Sekou would've been the pick. This draft grade goes down to a D now as well because we picked older players. When starting a rebuild, you should be more inclined to take on younger prospects, not older.
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Re: Not Revisionist History: Hornets Board 'On Record' about draft/FA/trades 

Post#48 » by yasuhara2241 » Sun Jun 30, 2019 2:32 pm

I feel really good about the PJ pick. For me it was between him and Sekou.
#36: I wanted to trade up for Kabengele or Bruno Fernando but at that pick I was willing to take the flier on Bol Bol. Now after reading up on Cody Martin I don't mind the pick but just don't see the immediate impact.
#52: No clue who any of the guys were so I was fine with the pick
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Re: Not Revisionist History: Hornets Board 'On Record' about draft/FA/trades 

Post#49 » by Vanderbilt_Grad » Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:26 pm

My on record here - Mitch's offer to Kemba was fair in a coldhearted mathematical sense. There was risk in a big contract given Kemba's age and past knee issues ... and MJ's desire to avoid the tax if not winning is a real thing the team has to consider. If Kemba wasn't going to take that level of pay, then the team was better off committing to a rebuild.

I can also see why it would have pissed Kemba off. It wasn't a loyalty offer. It wasn't a show of appreciation. It wasn't a 'take a pay cut so we can sign other great help for you.' Instead he got a 'we see you as worth X instead of Y offer' with no trades or free agent signing in sight to really help the team make it to the next level.
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Re: Not Revisionist History: Hornets Board 'On Record' about draft/FA/trades 

Post#50 » by BigSlam » Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:38 pm

Kemba's Free Agency:
I'll go on the record as saying I have no problem with the offer they made to Kemba (assuming the offer was 5/$160).
It was a risk to go in low but if Kemba signed off on it it would have been a massive win for us.
If he was willing to negotiate we had a starting point and could have built up from there.
Unfortunately it would appear Kemba wasn't interested in negotiating and only gave us 1 kick at the can - which I find very interesting.
I viewed our offer as a calculated risk.
I'm more happy that we didn't sign Kemba at 5/$200-$221 (like some were saying we should have) than I am sad at losing him.
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Re: Not Revisionist History: Post Kemba/Rozier trade thoughts 

Post#51 » by amcoolio » Mon Jul 1, 2019 2:35 am

Like taking a flyer on Rozier, who I think can have a Kemba like leap. He’s got swag. I don’t like the third year. We should have done 2/38. I love Kemba but 5/221 was too tough a pill to swallow.
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Re: Not Revisionist History: Post Kemba/Rozier trade thoughts 

Post#52 » by Rich4114 » Mon Jul 1, 2019 2:43 am

So here’s a question I haven’t seen asked yet. Who is our best player?

It’s not our two highest paid players (Batum or Rozier). It’s either Miles or Bacon right now. Those are our two best players with Monk as a dark horse candidate. Wow.
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Re: Not Revisionist History: Post Kemba/Rozier trade thoughts 

Post#53 » by BigSlam » Mon Jul 1, 2019 2:48 am

Not Extending The QO to Kaminsky
I'm good with it.
Don't think he fits with us and would rather any PT that he would have got going to PJ Washington to see what we have in him.
I think it's safe to assume the FO have worked very hard at exploring trade opportunities for Kaminksy over the past year and there just isn't an appetite for him,so really just had to cut bait.

Not Re-signing Lamb (UFA)
I'm good with it,
I like Lamb, thought he played well for us these last 2 years, but his production can hopefully be replaced by the much cheaper Bacon - or perhaps even Monk.

Signing Rozier
Don't like it.
Think he's now being paid double his worth and his signing was a desperation move by the FO when they knew they lost Kemba.
Would have been able to rationalize the 3 year deal if it was more like 3/30 and not 3/60.
I would have much rather gone into next season with Devonte as our starting PG and signed a cheaper young vet PG to back him up (Elfrid Payton).
I'm also worried about how Roziers game will compliment the games, playing styles, needs and development of our younger players (Devonte, Monk, Bacon, Bridges and PJ).
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Re: Not Revisionist History: Post Kemba/Rozier trade thoughts 

Post#54 » by cornchip » Mon Jul 1, 2019 4:02 am

The Kemba-Rozier situation

This was a total disaster. Hope I'm wrong about the results but at this point it's just an absolutely embarassing fiasco. And the more information that gets out, the worse it gets. Arguably the best player in franchise history, the franchises all time leading scorer, a fan favorite, a great locker room guy who has been criminally underpaid (and to add, he publicly stated he would take less than what he could've got multiple times)....and we offer him less than what guys got who aren't even consistent All-Stars. The 5 yr/190 mil contract was the obvious deal to be had. If Kemba walked away from that then I could understand. But to offer him less on a per year basis than what he could've gotten on the open market is just an indefensible decision.

That's not to mention that if you had no intention to sign him, we could've traded him a long time ago for better assets than....

Terry Rozier.

Not just Terry Rozier but Rozier on a bad contract. Rozier had one moment of note...when he put thr clown suit on an equally disappointing PG in Eric Bledsoe. Ironic really because now we have our Eric Bledsoe, Reggie Jackson, Jeff Teague type of bad PG contract.
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Re: Not Revisionist History: Post Kemba/Rozier trade thoughts 

Post#55 » by hotrod » Mon Jul 1, 2019 4:17 am

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Re: Not Revisionist History: Post Kemba/Rozier trade thoughts 

Post#56 » by driveandkick » Mon Jul 1, 2019 4:35 am

A bit late to the party here, but here we go:

PJ Washington Pick
Fine with the choice, I would have taken Clarke if it were up to me but PJ was second on that list. I actually think he pairs very nicely with Miles and could even be a 5 in some fun small ball lineups. People are complaining he has a limited ceiling but I don't buy that considering how much he improved at UK. This was a weak draft anyways.

Cody Martin Pick
Actually like it a lot. He's a high floor guy that is just a good basketball player. 6'6" PG types are always worth taking a chance on. If he can shoot he absolutely has a role in this league.

Terry Rozier Signing
I get all the complaints but I'm totally cool with it. As soon as we found out Kemba was gone we knew the tank was commencing. Tanking is about doing three things: accumulating draft picks, bringing in young players, and creating future cap space for when you hope to compete again. Rozier accomplishes the second thing on that list and hear me out, the third thing too. Yes we're paying him a ton of money over three years, but the thing is we're not even trying to compete for these next two years. We probably won't be during the third year either.

If we were trying to make some big signings next summer yes I'd be slamming this move, but that clearly won't be the case. You can overpay when you're tanking. I'd much prefer 3/58 as opposed to 4/60. Again, we're probably overpaying him but I really don't think it matters much when you consider what the next three years for us are going to be looking like. As far as I'm concerned adding Rozier even lowers the chances we try to shortcut our rebuild this time. Now there are rumors we have to send Boston more compensation for this. Sounds absurd, anything more than a second and we riot. And even that would be beyond terrible. If they even try to ask for a first I don't care if it's in 2045, back the **** away and pull out of the sign and trade.

Back to Rozier, I don't think he's a hidden gym or anything. I think he's a top backup caliber, but let's give him a chance. He is 24 years old, so this is a young player we're taking a shot on. He has performed at a high level before. Boston wasn't a great situation for him, he was stuck behind Kyrie and never had a consistent role. He seems to have a chip on his shoulder and he has to know this could very well be his one audition to show teams he's a starting PG in the league. If that doesn't motivate him, nothing will. He played great in the playoffs, so he's performed on the highest of levels already.

There are still a ton of questions with his game, but 24 year old Kemba was not much better than Rozier (if any better at all.) No, I'm not saying Rozier is going to develop like that. Not even close, I am saying it's entirely too early to know what type of player Rozier is. As bad as we're going to be next year, Rozier-Monk-Bacon-Bridges-Washington lineups could be fun. Rozier can defend and I don't buy the argument that he's going to take a million shots here. When he was running the point in Boston, he showed flashes as a creator but he absolutely has to improve there. Also, the "he keeps us a treadmill team!" take is laughable. We just lost Kemba and Lamb, you really think we're still a ~35 win team just because we got Rozier? Lmao. I'll tell you this, if Rozier does drag this team to 35 wins then he clearly was worth every penny of the contract.

I'll be shocked if we win more than 25 games next year, this doesn't ruin a tanking job.
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Re: Not Revisionist History: Post Kemba/Rozier trade thoughts 

Post#57 » by Diop » Mon Jul 1, 2019 9:18 am

In regards to the draft I didn't have any strong thoughts on any prospect. My mind kept changing with each report i read.
If anything I would have preferred taking Bol Bol at 36, but I'm happy with taking a fly at an oversized pg type.

In regards to Kemba, it was time to move on. I would have preferred a trade last year but I get being unable to due to the all star game.

I'm still coming to terms with the Rozier trade but I don't really hate it. It's a way to get something from Kemba leaving and we take a flyer on a young guard. Overpriced, but whatever.

To expand this to other teams, I think Philly will regret this offseason. I like Horford, but with Tobias getting the max as well, that team seems unbalanced. I prefer Tobias and Simmons playing Pf, but Horford is going to have to start there. Just too top heavy for me.

Russell to GSW is interesting, another play making shooter to keep them dangerous offensively. I will commit to saying, I think this will be a good move. *edit, I forgot about the loss of Iggy which will hurt. They will still be alright, but I wouldn't be surprised if they don't make it out of the first round.

Indiana and Sacramento had good offseasons, picked players that fit what they're doing nicely. Brogdon is great next to Dipo when he gets back, Lamb will be handy to start at first then be a scorer off the bench. I think Dedmon will be a good pickup for the kings, I think he is a bargain at 3 for $40 mill. Barnes seems expensive, but they knew him and obviously liked him. Good to have a couple of vets with the youth.

I love Rubio in Phoenix, let him run the offence and give everyone their shots.

Nets with the no brainer move, all depends on how Durant responds.

LOL at Knicks, Gibson is the biggest head scratcher for me. I would've just trialled all the youth. I like Portis and Randle who i didn't expect to get $20 per. Did they sign Bullock just because the money was burning a hole in their pocket?

Utah definitely got better, they just need a stretch 4 now. marv would be perfect but they don't have anything left to trade.

Milwaukee will regress next year, they will miss Brogdon, but that couldn't be helped.

Good rebound by New Orleans, whole new team that will be entertaining and solid. Favors is a good get.

My random free agent thoughts are done. I will still have these thoughts racing around my head as I try to sleep tonight.
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Re: Not Revisionist History: Post Kemba/Rozier trade thoughts 

Post#58 » by BobsBuddy » Mon Jul 1, 2019 10:40 am

:-? :o It's not easy being a GM or Owner these days in the NBA. In PJ Washington we drafted the best player available and the successor to Marvin Williams. Letting Frank go as an UFA was a business decision to clear another roster spot and a small amount of cap room. He just did not fit in with what we want to look like as a team. FAST,ATHLETIC, and LONG
As for drafting Cody Martin and Jalen McDaniels, both were second round picks and both fit into our plan to acquire interchangeable type players that can play multiple positions. 2 or 3 and 1 or 2 respectively. Along with Bacon they allowed us to let Lamb go to FA.
Letting a superstar like Kemba go is very hard to do,but it came down to WINNING VUS TICKET SALES. JL and KW accounted for 40 points,10 assists and 10 rebounds a game in 2018-2019. We have to RETool our team NOW to win two years down the road. By doing the sign and trade for Rozier with Boston,we immediately filled our need for a starting point. We overpaid for Rozier,but it allowed us to use Kemba and get something in return. 20 million a year Risk vus reward was worth it. IF Rozier performs like he did when filling in for Irving,we then have made a Great decision.
The reason we don't just tank is because MJ REFUSES TO LOSE.
Rozier will be an OK Trade. There is a rumor going around we are interested in Wiggins who has huge 3 year multi year million dollar contract. Trade Checker 7218979 Batum and Monk for Wiggins ? 3 year contract vus a 1 year contract plus Monk. :wink: :D
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Re: Not Revisionist History: Post Kemba/Rozier trade thoughts 

Post#59 » by LurkCobain » Mon Jul 1, 2019 10:44 am

Listen we all loved Kemba. We loved the nights whe he gave you 60 off 25/30 shooting. Some people tend to forget that he also gave you some 15 off 5/27 nights. After thinking about it some, the team made the right move for the long term. This forces the young guys to jump in the water and stop staring at Kemba like kids waiting for daddy to save them.

People act like we were getting Rubio or Mudiay for 8 per....we were not. Rose MIGHT have bit, but he also has quit on several teams. You had to pay a couple of more bucks for Rozier through a sign and trade. Of Rozier wouldve bucked, we would of been screwed. No one wants TJ McConnell starting. This is a solid warning for the future. Stars get paid star money. Batum ish guys dont get more than 15 million.
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Re: Not Revisionist History: Post Kemba/Rozier trade thoughts 

Post#60 » by BobsBuddy » Mon Jul 1, 2019 11:12 am

Rozier is not Batum and we got a starting point vus not being able to bid on him at all. By sign and trade with Boston. Yes we overpaid,but under NBA rules if Kemba just walked we get nothing, but 8.9 million.

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