The Rebuild Part 2

[yasuhara2241]

Why is everyone so intent at giving up an asset to get rid of Batum? I understood that if Kemba stayed and we needed cap space but now that wouldn't be smart. We aren't going to need cap space for the next 2 years. We got 45m expiring next year and then another 43m after that.

Getting rid of Batum would mean that we are trying to use that cap space in 2020 to sign somebody big. That we be counter to a rebuild and essentially be us signing Al Jefferson all over again and cutting our rebuild short.

I just don't see the sense in it

Moving the Batum contract 1 year earlier further opens up the possibility of sweetheart deals that enable us to acquire more assets.

Eg: A team needs to dump salary to bring their cap number down so we take on a contract with a 1st round pick attached in order for them to create cap room.

Moving the Batum contract 1 year earlier provides additional flexibility. Flexibility I'd rather have than not have.

Won't we have that flexibility with or without Batums contract? We have 43m going out next year. We are in a good spot to do that without giving up anything to get rid of the extra yr of Batum.

[LofJ]

One possibility I can see for moving Batum a year earlier is the Cavs. They have way too many veteran guards in front of their young guys. Consolidating Knight and Dellavedova into Batum might be appealing to them. The question is what they'd want in return for taking on that extra year.

We happen to own their 2020 2nd, but I'd rather not attach that. Early 2nds are valuable, and Mitch is a good evaluator of talent so I'd prefer we actually draft a player with it.

If Cho had not traded away several years worth of 2nd round picks for Willy I'd probably feel differently.

[yasuhara2241]

One possibility I can see for moving Batum a year earlier is the Cavs. They have way too many veteran guards in front of their young guys. Consolidating Knight and Dellavedova into Batum might be appealing to them. The question is what they'd want in return for taking on that extra year. We happen to own their 2020 2nd, if that is enough to get it done we should at least consider it. I'd rather we just keep Batum though, early 2nds are valuable.

This is one thing I like about Mitch. He seems to value 2nd rounders! We need to take advantage of low wage second rounders and European stashes. We are finally doing that so give me all your second rounders! Don't give them up!

[BigSlam]

Why is everyone so intent at giving up an asset to get rid of Batum? I understood that if Kemba stayed and we needed cap space but now that wouldn't be smart. We aren't going to need cap space for the next 2 years. We got 45m expiring next year and then another 43m after that.

Getting rid of Batum would mean that we are trying to use that cap space in 2020 to sign somebody big. That we be counter to a rebuild and essentially be us signing Al Jefferson all over again and cutting our rebuild short.

I just don't see the sense in it

Moving the Batum contract 1 year earlier further opens up the possibility of sweetheart deals that enable us to acquire more assets.

Eg: A team needs to dump salary to bring their cap number down so we take on a contract with a 1st round pick attached in order for them to create cap room.

Moving the Batum contract 1 year earlier provides additional flexibility. Flexibility I'd rather have than not have.

Won't we have that flexibility with or without Batums contract? We have 43m going out next year. We are in a good spot to do that without giving up anything to get rid of the extra yr of Batum.

Yes we'll have that approx $40mil after next year - but why not have approx $70mil instead - especially if it comes at the small cost of Monk? That way we could easily absorb an opposing teams dead contract (with as many draft picks attached to it as possible) while not hampering our cap flexibility and handcuffing us.

Rebuild the right way. Create as many avenues for options as possible and the maximum amount of cap space as you can so you afford yourself total flexibility.

[amcoolio]

2020 FA class sucks. Wait for 2021. Trade MKG/Biyombo for some of the Heat's crap on 2 year deals and pick up an asset or two

[yasuhara2241]

Moving the Batum contract 1 year earlier further opens up the possibility of sweetheart deals that enable us to acquire more assets.

Eg: A team needs to dump salary to bring their cap number down so we take on a contract with a 1st round pick attached in order for them to create cap room.

Moving the Batum contract 1 year earlier provides additional flexibility. Flexibility I'd rather have than not have.

Won't we have that flexibility with or without Batums contract? We have 43m going out next year. We are in a good spot to do that without giving up anything to get rid of the extra yr of Batum.

Yes we'll have that approx $40mil after next year - but why not have approx $70mil instead - especially if it comes at the small cost of Monk? That way we could easily absorb an opposing teams dead contract (with as many draft picks attached to it as possible) while not hampering our cap flexibility and handcuffing us.

Rebuild the right way. Create as many avenues for options as possible and the maximum amount of cap space as you can so you afford yourself total flexibility.

I see your point. It really comes down to how much you value Monk. I still see him as a 21 yr old with a ton of potential. We saw flashes in the beginning of the year last year. He still 2-3 yrs younger than Bacon and Graham. I think that he can become a player especially with all the minutes he should be getting this year.

For me this is his make or break year. I am just not willing to do it to get rid of Batum and a chance at maybe flipping cap space for future firsts.

[LofJ]

Monk is the only player on this team that has the faintest hope of going off for 40+ points. It doesn't make sense to trade him to get rid of Batum.

[BigSlam]

Monk is the only player on this team that has the faintest hope of going off for 40+ points. It doesn't make sense to trade him to get rid of Batum.

A player who can go off for 40+ in one game (while giving up as much if not more on the other end) then suck for the next 20+ games doesn't excite me too much.

[LofJ]

Monk is the only player on this team that has the faintest hope of going off for 40+ points. It doesn't make sense to trade him to get rid of Batum.

A player who can go off for 40+ in one game (while giving up as much if not more on the other end) then suck for the next 20+ games doesn't excite me too much.

He was 20 years old last year, Kemba wasn't even in the NBA at that age.

[BigSlam]

Monk is the only player on this team that has the faintest hope of going off for 40+ points. It doesn't make sense to trade him to get rid of Batum.

A player who can go off for 40+ in one game (while giving up as much if not more on the other end) then suck for the next 20+ games doesn't excite me too much.

He was 20 years old last year, Kemba wasn't even in the NBA at that age.

Interestingly enough, although he has been in the league 1 more year than Bridges, Monks career bests aren't that much higher than Bridges.

For example:
Monks career high in points is 26 (even though his career high in FGA's is 19).
Bridges career high in points is 20 (even though his career high in FGA's is only 13).
Their career high 3PM are 7 Vs 4 (and Monk was touted as the "shooter/scorer" prospect). Monks high in 3PA is 13 Vs Bridges 6.

And they both only 21.

I know who I would I would want to hang my hat on moving forward.

[brianmc]

We should be playing for 2021 FA class (80 million in cap if we don't do anything and everyone expires), lots of good free agents that year.

Should have a nice young core and at least 1 exciting high-profile rookie, unless our lottery luck just screws us again

CLT isn't getting any free agents of consequence. I think the better play is to acquire as many draft assets as possible. Obviously acquiring assets and opening space would be the best scenario but to acquire 1st round picks, we're probably going to have to take on some garbage. Take a look at what Cleveland is doing right now. I think that's the direction CLT should go in.

[LofJ]

A player who can go off for 40+ in one game (while giving up as much if not more on the other end) then suck for the next 20+ games doesn't excite me too much.

He was 20 years old last year, Kemba wasn't even in the NBA at that age.

Interestingly enough, although he has been in the league 1 more year than Bridges, Monks career bests aren't that much higher than Bridges.

For example:
Monks career high in points is 26 (even though his career high in FGA's is 19).
Bridges career high in points is 20 (even though his career high in FGA's is only 13).
Their career high 3PA are 7 Vs 4 (and Monk was touted as the "shooter/scorer" prospect).

And they both only 21.

I know who I would I would want to hang my hat on moving forward.

I'd choose Bridges over Monk too, but that isn't a choice we're forced to make.

[brianmc]

Monk is the only player on this team that has the faintest hope of going off for 40+ points. It doesn't make sense to trade him to get rid of Batum.

A player who can go off for 40+ in one game (while giving up as much if not more on the other end) then suck for the next 20+ games doesn't excite me too much.

It would be foolish to give up on MM now. His stock is at an all time low. Build the kid back up. I think he's part of the long term play. I don't think attaching him him to Batum to create space is the play. Create space for what? CLT isn't a FA destination. Build a collection of low priced assets.. then they can be flipped for a disgruntled superstar or they develop organically.

[Hornet Mania]

I don't agree with the framing that we're somehow rebuilding at a disadvantage here, although I do agree that we obviously didn't maximize the situation as much as we could if we'd moved Kemba/Lamb for picks. We're definitely not worse off than the Nets were, at least we own all our future picks so we're not super-screwed.

On the topic of Malik Monk and his value, realistically I think that the offer Slam said he might accept (Jackson/Galloway for Batum/Monk) is very reasonable but I don't have a ton of faith in Monk anymore. However...players like Monk can sometimes look awesome on really crappy teams. I might want to hold onto Monk and see if we can increase his role a bit and get him up to 15-18ppg with the occasional big flash. Get that good 'he's a 3rd year player finally figuring things out' narrative going and then sell high.

Regardless of what we do with Monk I hope Mitch is savvy enough to tell the difference between fool's gold stat-padding guys on a bad team and the legitimate future building blocks. The next 2-3yrs is a great time to try to juice some random scrub's stats and then ship them off for a 1st, like Hinkie did with MCW.

[BigSlam]

Monk is the only player on this team that has the faintest hope of going off for 40+ points. It doesn't make sense to trade him to get rid of Batum.

A player who can go off for 40+ in one game (while giving up as much if not more on the other end) then suck for the next 20+ games doesn't excite me too much.

It would be foolish to give up on MM now. His stock is at an all time low. Build the kid back up. I think he's part of the long term play. I don't think attaching him him to Batum to create space is the play. Create space for what? CLT isn't a FA destination. Build a collection of low priced assets.. then they can be flipped for a disgruntled superstar or they develop organically.

I'm not suggesting we give up on him. I say we use him to improve our position.

Giving up on him would be doing what we did with Kaminsky and just letting him walk by not extending him the QO and getting nothing at all in return for a recent lottery pick.

And re-read what I posted earlier - cap space isn't restricted to being only used to sign FA's.

[yasuhara2241]

Monk is the only player on this team that has the faintest hope of going off for 40+ points. It doesn't make sense to trade him to get rid of Batum.

A player who can go off for 40+ in one game (while giving up as much if not more on the other end) then suck for the next 20+ games doesn't excite me too much.

Did Kemba excite you when he came into the league? He came in at 21 yrs old and didn't become efficient at all until around year 5 when he was already 25.

I understand your frustration with Monk. I had high hopes for him when he was drafted and especially last year. It didn't happen, but if we would have given up on Kemba we would never have seen this complete transformation as a player.

I am not saying Monk has the same potential or work ethic as Kemba, but I am saying giving up too soon while on a cheap contract and not getting assets in return would be a mistake IMO.

[BigSlam]

Monk is the only player on this team that has the faintest hope of going off for 40+ points. It doesn't make sense to trade him to get rid of Batum.

A player who can go off for 40+ in one game (while giving up as much if not more on the other end) then suck for the next 20+ games doesn't excite me too much.

Did Kemba excite you when he came into the league? He came in at 21 yrs old and didn't become efficient at all until around year 5 when he was already 25.

Not sure if you are serious or not?

I am saying giving up too soon while on a cheap contract and not getting assets in return would be a mistake IMO.

We'd get an asset.

Cap space IS an asset.

[Robot Rock]

We should be playing for 2021 FA class (80 million in cap if we don't do anything and everyone expires), lots of good free agents that year.

Should have a nice young core and at least 1 exciting high-profile rookie, unless our lottery luck just screws us again

Spoiler alert: it will screw us again and no one worth a damn will ever sign with the Charlotte Hornets again. I bet if you asked a lot of guys, they’d play overseas before they came here. Or just sit out a year. This is the place people come when they’re overpaid and last their sell-by date by at least five years.

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

I'm not sure some of you are appreciating how **** our situation is. When you decide to tank, you have to maximize assets, meaning you cash in whatever value you have. Both Kemba and Lamb could have landed us draft consideration.

You also use cap space to take on salary for draft consideration.

We have no players to trade for picks, and we have no cap space to use for picks.

Maybe, MAYBE we can trade an expiring at the deadline for salary and a pick, but that's about our only option to add any more value. We are starting a tank with two hands tied behind our back. It's going to take a year before we have the cap space to leverage trades to get picks, but that is also going to be in advance of the 2021 draft when teams are likely to prioritize picks more highly, thus making it harder to get value in trades.

This is the worst possible time to start a tank.

I hate tanking and honestly wouldn't support it under any circumstances. But even if I liked tanking I would argue this is a **** set of circumstances under which to do it.

It's true that this coming year is not a great situation in terms of having cap space. I would argue that it's likely the team can get some value form Marvin, but yeah trading Lamb or Kemba last year could have made a real difference, so that makes this year bad.

That said, teams like the Nets have recovered from worse, and the team will have cap space after this season to make the kinds of deals you talk about - if it's sensible to do so then.

The upside is that the team has a clear direction now, whereas it has been trying to tread a middle path before. They can fully commit to a rebuild which should actually help in making deals and determining who they sign.

And just to be clear - I would much rather have had Kemba back, but it is what it is.

[yasuhara2241]

A player who can go off for 40+ in one game (while giving up as much if not more on the other end) then suck for the next 20+ games doesn't excite me too much.

Did Kemba excite you when he came into the league? He came in at 21 yrs old and didn't become efficient at all until around year 5 when he was already 25.

Not sure if you are serious or not?
Absolutely serious. People forget he struggled heavily his first 4 years. He showed flashes but couldn't put it together until he fixed his shot.

I am saying giving up too soon while on a cheap contract and not getting assets in return would be a mistake IMO.

We'd get an asset.

Cap space IS an asset.

Cap space is only an asset if it is used correctly. We got a trade exception(8m) which is an asset but only if we use it. We might not. I see the cap space as a potential asset but not guaranteed. Now if we gave up Monk and knew we were getting a 1st in return I might not agree but would understand. Just cap space for this team I don't see as beneficial but if we end up trading Monk I sure hope you are right!