ImageImage

Scarence Terrence: The Terry Rozier Thread

Moderators: Diop, yosemiteben, BigSlam, JDR720, fatlever

LofJ
General Manager
Posts: 8,380
And1: 5,486
Joined: Mar 29, 2014
   

Re: Shams: Rozier to Charlotte 

Post#301 » by LofJ » Mon Jul 1, 2019 11:34 pm

Vanderbilt_Grad wrote:I'm not a team exec or coach ... but I'm willing to bet that they hope they will make the playoffs next year. Probably don't expect it, but that's a good stretch goal. The team isn't going to tank in the sense that they try to lose games and have the worst record in the league. They will try to win - but it remains to be seen if they actually will or not.

Signing Rozier is an indicator of all that. The could have let Graham start or have tried to sign someone worse & cheaper just to fill out the roster.


With the flatter lottery odds and it now being 4 selections instead of 3 there is a lot less incentive to be as bad as possible. If we're in the bottom 7 that's not a bad place to be.
Image
gundysmullet
Rookie
Posts: 1,113
And1: 600
Joined: May 20, 2019

Re: Shams: Rozier to Charlotte 

Post#302 » by gundysmullet » Mon Jul 1, 2019 11:46 pm

316Hornets wrote:
gundysmullet wrote:
316Hornets wrote:
Rozier had the ball in his hands for avg. 4.22 seconds per touch compared to Kyrie 4.27 seconds per touch. Rozier's per/36 assist - turnover ratio was 4.6 to 1.4 compared to Kyrie 7.5 to 2.8.

Did Rozier shoot a poor percentage? Yes.
Did he have a good assist - turnover ratio? Yes

What does chucking have to do with his ability to be a floor general. Maybe he'll become a better shooter. That's what we're betting on, but if not, he will be a floor general who can help other guys around him develop.

But how is he going to help the other guys “develop” when he’s so bad at dishing out assists?



I don't know man. I'm not entirely sold on Rozier but it's not like there are other guys out there much better. Even if Rozier is awful, at worst, the Hornets will be picking high in the draft for the next 2-3 years. So, it's a win-win to me. I'd rather us lock all our money into a guy like Rozier than spread it out among a lot of little contracts.

I hear yeah. I guess we just disagree on how to spend the money. I would like to have signed Payton as I was saying all last week. He put a better stats than Rozier and cost half the money. That would have allowed the Hornets to sign some more depth and youth.
User avatar
Bassman
Analyst
Posts: 3,675
And1: 593
Joined: Jul 02, 2006
Location: Sunny SW Florida; NC born & bred
       

Re: Shams: Rozier to Charlotte 

Post#303 » by Bassman » Mon Jul 1, 2019 11:46 pm

I appreciate the other poster’s various details regarding the trade rules, and how this played out relative to getting some value for Kemba. It is not what we’d want, and we sure could have/should have dealt him at the deadline for some better return. However, we do get a young guy who, while overpaid, isn’t that far off from the others in his class in both talent or $$.

Certainly the Hornets plan is to compete while developing their young players. Doesn’t mean they expect the playoffs but I’m sure that is MJ’s goal. It will be interesting to see what we try to do with our trade exception, and if we can pull off any deals that moves a bum outta here (Batum please go). We need a good big man and WCS keeps getting mentioned by our board.

Much to be determined, but I am now sort of glad we made this move versus losing Kemba for zero.
I continue to wait...and hope...for the return to Hornet's glory.
User avatar
316Hornets
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,031
And1: 2,058
Joined: Jun 26, 2015
Location: Milky Way
   

Re: Shams: Rozier to Charlotte 

Post#304 » by 316Hornets » Mon Jul 1, 2019 11:50 pm

One positive from the overpay. It should give all our young guys motivation to play hard. Rozier hasn't shown much, but is getting almost 60 million on just potential. I bet every young guy on our team wants a piece of that.
gundysmullet
Rookie
Posts: 1,113
And1: 600
Joined: May 20, 2019

Re: Shams: Rozier to Charlotte 

Post#305 » by gundysmullet » Mon Jul 1, 2019 11:50 pm

vexco wrote:
gundysmullet wrote:
vexco wrote:
Will you stop repeating this nonsense? Your oversimplification of stats to fit your narrative is just annoying at this point. You're not Ben Shapiro.

Rozier played less minutes, is a better defender and will have a defined role, much like he did in the 2018 playoffs. Let's see what happens.

All emotion and not an ounce of fact. Why did you not post Elfred Payton’s stats and Terry Rozier stats? You were advocating for one and not the other, and even went so far as to refer to one of them as a “bum” so post their stats.


You can't be this dense on accident so I assume it's all an act. You clearly are disregarding what I'm actually saying and shoehorning this into a stats argument.

OK, so now your argument has devolved into personal insults, which is against the terms of service by the way. I’m done with you.
User avatar
vexco
Senior
Posts: 616
And1: 31
Joined: May 27, 2004
Location: south...hell...
Contact:

Re: Shams: Rozier to Charlotte 

Post#306 » by vexco » Tue Jul 2, 2019 12:11 am

gundysmullet wrote:
vexco wrote:
gundysmullet wrote:All emotion and not an ounce of fact. Why did you not post Elfred Payton’s stats and Terry Rozier stats? You were advocating for one and not the other, and even went so far as to refer to one of them as a “bum” so post their stats.


You can't be this dense on accident so I assume it's all an act. You clearly are disregarding what I'm actually saying and shoehorning this into a stats argument.

OK, so now your argument has devolved into personal insults, which is against the terms of service by the way. I’m done with you.


At least you got this argument right.
mapquest me
User avatar
Eoghan
RealGM
Posts: 11,301
And1: 3,262
Joined: May 20, 2009
         

Re: Shams: Rozier to Charlotte 

Post#307 » by Eoghan » Tue Jul 2, 2019 12:35 am

MJ always was a Hornets killer. He just can't turn that off I guess.
User avatar
316Hornets
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,031
And1: 2,058
Joined: Jun 26, 2015
Location: Milky Way
   

Re: Shams: Rozier to Charlotte 

Post#308 » by 316Hornets » Tue Jul 2, 2019 12:51 am

We are 3 years away from being back. I don't feel we've lost anything from losing Kemba. Team should be stronger with no long term contracts. 2022 draft should be stacked and we'll have a boatload of cash to spend. If your team can't survive a 3 year rebuild, then go ahead and sell.
User avatar
BlackOutBuzz
Hornets Forum Capologist
Posts: 7,308
And1: 2,419
Joined: Jan 22, 2012
Location: Burlington, NC
       

Re: Shams: Rozier to Charlotte 

Post#309 » by BlackOutBuzz » Tue Jul 2, 2019 4:09 am

Bit of speculating here, but I wonder if the Rozier deal is of the declining nature.

When you take Kemba's salary of $32.7M ÷ 2 (BYC) you get roughly $16.35M, so the max incoming value from a trade would be about $20.5M (125% + $100k). Assuming the declining scale with standard 5% decreases you're looking at annual values of:

$20.5M
$19.475M
$18.45M

For a total of 3 years/$58.425M. May be wrong and this is a coincidence, but I really wasn't expecting to get that close to $58M when punching in those numbers. It would also explain how they arrived at that specific amount.

If it's truly dead on $58M than a declining scale may look like this:

$20.35M
$19.33M
$18.32M

So close.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
Hornets Picks by Year
2020: CHA 1, CLE 2 (SGA), BOS 2 (top 53 protected, Kemba :cry: )
2021: CHA 1, BRK 2 (Howard), LAC 2 (SGA)
2022: CHA 1; CHA 2
2023: CHA 1
25centsandwich
Sophomore
Posts: 155
And1: 38
Joined: May 23, 2007

Re: Shams: Rozier to Charlotte 

Post#310 » by 25centsandwich » Tue Jul 2, 2019 4:45 am

Bassman wrote:I appreciate the other poster’s various details regarding the trade rules, and how this played out relative to getting some value for Kemba. It is not what we’d want, and we sure could have/should have dealt him at the deadline for some better return. However, we do get a young guy who, while overpaid, isn’t that far off from the others in his class in both talent or $$.

Certainly the Hornets plan is to compete while developing their young players. Doesn’t mean they expect the playoffs but I’m sure that is MJ’s goal. It will be interesting to see what we try to do with our trade exception, and if we can pull off any deals that moves a bum outta here (Batum please go). We need a good big man and WCS keeps getting mentioned by our board.

Much to be determined, but I am now sort of glad we made this move versus losing Kemba for zero.


I guess what I'm trying to comprehend is if that's really the case...why not just freakin keep Kemba!?

I guess it all just boils down to would you rather have Kemba at 5/190 or Rozier at 3/58? I would absolutely and unequivocally rather have Kemba. And it's not just me...the Celtics, even though I hate them, are one of the smartest franchises in the league. They happily shipped Rozier's ass out and handed Kemba 30 mil a year.
User avatar
JDR720
Forum Mod - Hornets
Forum Mod - Hornets
Posts: 31,907
And1: 23,915
Joined: Jul 09, 2013
     

Re: Shams: Rozier to Charlotte 

Post#311 » by JDR720 » Tue Jul 2, 2019 5:07 am

Anyone got thread name ideas?

Scary Terry: The Terry Rozier thread
Rosy Rozier: The Terry Rozier Thread
gundysmullet
Rookie
Posts: 1,113
And1: 600
Joined: May 20, 2019

Re: Shams: Rozier to Charlotte 

Post#312 » by gundysmullet » Tue Jul 2, 2019 5:14 am

JDR720 wrote:Anyone got thread name ideas?

Scary Terry: The Terry Rozier thread
Rosy Rozier: The Terry Rozier Thread


Inefficient Overpaid Chucker: The Terry Rozier thread?
bravor
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,849
And1: 405
Joined: Dec 30, 2015
 

Re: Shams: Rozier to Charlotte 

Post#313 » by bravor » Tue Jul 2, 2019 6:24 am

BigSlam wrote:Excerpts from a Boobnell piecel - FWIW:

ROZIER’S RESUME

(snip)...But there are flaws.

Shooting is the obvious one: He hasn’t shot 40 percent from the field in any of his prior for NBA seasons. You could say Walker shot similarly his first four NBA seasons. But Walker took apart his 3-pointer that next summer and his shooting skyrocketed. To expect so dramatic an improvement from Rozier seems pretty wishful.

I asked an executive from another NBA team to assess Rozier. He said he’d want Rozier on his team. Then I asked if he’d want Rozier as a starter, and would commit $19 million each of the next three seasons to acquiring him. That raised hesitancy.

This executive’s review of Rozier: A really good competitor. Most effective in transition. Despite 6-foot-1 height, applies himself well enough defensively that he can occasionally guard shooting guards.

Then, I asked about the downside. The executive said Rozier doesn’t make good decisions with the ball consistently on offense, which contributes to his poor shooting. That, the executive said, is why he’s better suited as a backup than a starter.

Hopefully, Rozier proves otherwise. But the key word is hopeful: That’s what has marked the Hornets’ player acquisitions, and often that trait has led to mistakes.


https://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/charlotte-hornets/article232143612.html


This sounds like the Hornets want to have the most expensive bench in the nba...
Rozier - MKG - Batum - Biyombo

Rozier Garden : the starting back up thread
Splitta
Sophomore
Posts: 209
And1: 171
Joined: Oct 25, 2018

Re: Shams: Rozier to Charlotte 

Post#314 » by Splitta » Tue Jul 2, 2019 12:12 pm

Help me understand why anyone would make the following deal including our Great new GM Mitch.

1. Let Kemba leave without receiving anything when he could have been traded at anytime for quality compensation during the past two years.
2. Do a sign and trade and overpay for a back up pg Rozier and also give the Celtics some type of draft compensation...hope it is not an unprotected 1st rounder but you never know with the Hornets.

SMH
Vanderbilt_Grad
Analyst
Posts: 3,436
And1: 1,228
Joined: Sep 22, 2001
Location: Charlotte, NC

Re: Shams: Rozier to Charlotte 

Post#315 » by Vanderbilt_Grad » Tue Jul 2, 2019 12:30 pm

Splitta wrote:Help me understand why anyone would make the following deal including our Great new GM Mitch.

1. Let Kemba leave without receiving anything when he could have been traded at anytime for quality compensation during the past two years.
2. Do a sign and trade and overpay for a back up pg Rozier and also give the Celtics some type of draft compensation...hope it is not an unprotected 1st rounder but you never know with the Hornets.

SMH

I'm not saying that these are GOOD reasons, but consensus seems to be that it's likely that MKG wanted Kemba on the roster for the All Star Game. It seems possible that Kemba could have been traded had the game in Charlotte not have been pushed back a year. I also personally think that there was miscalculation on both sides about how the negotiations would work and what they meant.

As for the S&T, well it's obvious that the team felt like Terry was better than the other available options. The S&T also allowed the team to preserve the midlevel exception for filling out the roster. The why on draft compensation was covered earlier as well in this thread. Boston didn't need a S&T to get Kemba. Charlotte did need one to get Terry. Boston used that as leverage. My understanding is that the compensation is just a second round pick, likely protected.
Hope is free.
LofJ
General Manager
Posts: 8,380
And1: 5,486
Joined: Mar 29, 2014
   

Re: Shams: Rozier to Charlotte 

Post#316 » by LofJ » Tue Jul 2, 2019 12:36 pm

A top 55 protected 2nd and cash is what I hope the compensation is. It better not be the 2020 Cavs 2nd, other than our own 1sts that's our best future asset.
Image
CatgutStitches
Junior
Posts: 273
And1: 161
Joined: Jun 27, 2015
     

Re: Shams: Rozier to Charlotte 

Post#317 » by CatgutStitches » Tue Jul 2, 2019 1:30 pm

But wait... I thought MJ was cheap? It's so hard for me to keep track of what I'm supposed to complain about these days!
User avatar
countryboi
Head Coach
Posts: 6,780
And1: 919
Joined: Jul 30, 2008
   

Re: Shams: Rozier to Charlotte 

Post#318 » by countryboi » Tue Jul 2, 2019 2:12 pm

CatgutStitches wrote:But wait... I thought MJ was cheap? It's so hard for me to keep track of what I'm supposed to complain about these days!


he is not really cheap he just doent want to pay the tax...not for one second. he is completely fine with being over the cap.
Image
User avatar
vexco
Senior
Posts: 616
And1: 31
Joined: May 27, 2004
Location: south...hell...
Contact:

Re: Shams: Rozier to Charlotte 

Post#319 » by vexco » Tue Jul 2, 2019 3:41 pm

He shouldn't want to pay the cap for an average product.
mapquest me
User avatar
BigSlam
Forum Mod - Hornets
Forum Mod - Hornets
Posts: 44,539
And1: 2,303
Joined: Jul 01, 2005

Re: Shams: Rozier to Charlotte 

Post#320 » by BigSlam » Tue Jul 2, 2019 4:31 pm

Has anybody spent any time this weekend over on the Boston board to see how they feel about Rozier as a player and losing him?

I have not, but would assume they would have probably the best read on the kid?
BBMF'ers

Return to Charlotte Hornets