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LofJ wrote:

Rich4114 wrote:I guess this explains the previous few moves made. You guys are making me feel better about it. I just hope he’s even close this season to what he was last for us. If that happens then it’s money well spent.

But now we have 5 years of Terry at a large contract plus 3 more of Gordon at an even larger one with Miles contract needing to be dealt with and LaMelo getting his bag before Terry and whatever we give Miles ends. We are locking ourselves into this roster now, which isn’t bad but they’re making some bets here that I hope work out well.

You know we can trade players right? We aren't locking ourselves into this roster for the next 3 to 5 years. Kupchak hasn't handed out any Batum level disasters yet that can't be traded.

You know that trades require an agreement between at least 2 teams right?

It's easy to say "we can just trade him later" but the same was said when Batum was signed and I bet the FO would have loved to have traded him out instead of stretching him.

It's not always as easy as just saying a player can be traded whenever and however you want to trade them.

BigSlam wrote:

LofJ wrote:

Rich4114 wrote:I guess this explains the previous few moves made. You guys are making me feel better about it. I just hope he’s even close this season to what he was last for us. If that happens then it’s money well spent.

But now we have 5 years of Terry at a large contract plus 3 more of Gordon at an even larger one with Miles contract needing to be dealt with and LaMelo getting his bag before Terry and whatever we give Miles ends. We are locking ourselves into this roster now, which isn’t bad but they’re making some bets here that I hope work out well.

You know we can trade players right? We aren't locking ourselves into this roster for the next 3 to 5 years. Kupchak hasn't handed out any Batum level disasters yet that can't be traded.

You know that trades require an agreement between at least 2 teams right?

It's easy to say "we can just trade him later" but the same was said when Batum was signed and I bet the FO would have loved to have traded him out instead of stretching him.

It's not always as easy as just saying a player can be traded whenever and however you want to trade them.

True, takes two to tango but I think that Terry is less likely to totally tank it now that he got paid unlike Batum. He seems like a more hard headed winner type.

I wonder if this is linked to Fran saying Gordon is on the trade block.

It would make sense. Are we really going to cap out the team around LaMelo in his 2nd year with Rozier and Gordon both making max contracts? We're pretty much recreating the Boston Celtics team when Irving was there if we are.

Chapelchilla wrote:

BigSlam wrote:

LofJ wrote:
You know we can trade players right? We aren't locking ourselves into this roster for the next 3 to 5 years. Kupchak hasn't handed out any Batum level disasters yet that can't be traded.

You know that trades require an agreement between at least 2 teams right?

It's easy to say "we can just trade him later" but the same was said when Batum was signed and I bet the FO would have loved to have traded him out instead of stretching him.

It's not always as easy as just saying a player can be traded whenever and however you want to trade them.

True, takes two to tango but I think that Terry is less likely to totally tank it now that he got paid unlike Batum. He seems like a more hard headed winner type.

10 teams expressed interest in Rozier this summer. Unless he pulls a Batum and quits putting in effort him making a few more million a year won't affect his trade value one way or the other all that much. He's a winner and is an in-demand player archetype. I don't think Kupchak would have much trouble finding a trade partner.

We all have trauma from Batum, Tyrus Thomas, and MKG…but Rozier has NEVER shown quitter traits. So as it stands, based upon his history, I agree with this extension.

If it’s true that Hayward is on the trade block, I agree with this extension even more.


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JDR720 wrote:I wonder if this is linked to Fran saying Gordon is on the trade block.

It would make sense. Our we really going to cap out the team around LaMelo in his 2nd year with Rozier and Gordon both making max contracts? We're pretty much recreating the Boston Celtics team when Irving was there if we are.

Neither Rozier or Hayward is making a real MAX contract, that’s based on semantics not figures. Embiid and Trae are basically getting 50 million a season.
Hayward is at 29, Rozier 24. Trae is a baller but not more then twice as good as Terry. If we can’t resign Miles or Ball that would be crippling but I don’t see that as the outcome here do you?
We have young , cheap but impressionable talent signed up for the next 3 years so spending some money for talented, unselfish vets who can shoot and provide steady leadership is likely a good investment now.

I'm OK with it. We were arguably a top 5 team in the East before injuries wiped us out. If Lamelo and the draft picks continue to improve we could do alot worse than locking ourselves into this roster, not that this contract does that.

there was a huge market for Terry less than a month ago that all knew an extension like this was imminent

BlackOutBuzz wrote:Could be rounding but I had his max extension at $96.25M.

Well Spotrac agrees.

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BTW I hate that we're calling this a "max" contract. Had Terry hit FA next year he could've signed a true max contract for a 7-year veteran, which should be around $150M for 4 years. This is just the "max" Charlotte could offer.

Also nice that his previous deal had a declining structure, otherwise the max offer would've been about $10M higher.

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it was very very obvious we were going to have to overpay Rozier to get him to sign an extension after destroying all leverage by punting Monk and Graham. It kinda sucks but it's absolutely the right move to get a deal done. Can't go into next season with only Melo and Bouk under contract at the guard spots, that's a recipe for disaster if he walks.

I'm not worried about him turning into Batum though. I'm happy to keep him as part of the core. Just would've preferred giving some of this money to Malik and Devonte'.

This was a pretty good analysis of the Terry deal:

https://www.theringer.com/2021/8/19/22633010/terry-rozier-charlotte-hornets-new-contract-nba-free-agency

Just because these two are forever linked: in the double sign-and-trade Kemba signed a 4-year/$141M deal, with this we'll have Terry under contract for 7 years/$153M in total.

Also, two years later, one was extended and the other was traded then waived.

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Take last season away and this contract would be blasphemy. I just really hope last season represented a trajectory rather than a short peak. The other part that worries me is his claim to fame was the epic clutch play he put together last season. Is that realistic to be even partly repeatable? I sure hope it is. All in all, this deal isn’t a cap destroyer unless he goes Batum which we all have PTSD from. I guess I couldn’t picture Terry mailing it in, so at least there’s that.

I like it, but I think we probably should have waited until later in the year to give him more motivation to play hard before he gets the bag. That said Terry seems to have a great working attitude so I don't think he'll quit now. A very slight overpay but nothing that should create a Batum-like albatross.

I might have preferred one year less so now I really hope we can find a trade partner for Hayward at the deadline to get some young assets and expiring deals, assuming the rest of the league hasn't figured out yet the Hayward deal is negative value yet.

In order to be a good NBA team in today's league you have to operate over the cap. Cap space is significantly overvalued if you are a competitive team. Essentially we would have entered next season with a 25million or so in cap space if we completely renounced Bridges and Terry cap holds and operated as an under the cap team. Which was very unlikely, assuming we sign Bridges either now or then for roughly 15 annually then that would have given us either 10 Million to offer an outside free agent or retain Terry Rozier at whatever offer we see fit. I don't see anyway we would of came out on top by letting Terry walk and using that 10 million in cap space.

Also, by operating as an over the cap team, we don't have to worry about having cap space to sign first round picks, we get a larger TPE closer to 10 million instead of the measly 5 million that we gave Ish. And it is relatively easy now a days to use a sign and trade if you really really want to get a guy that is a free agent. Terry contract can be traded next offseason and we can "sign that player to a deal worth 125% of his contract instead of the 10 million or so we would have in cap space.

All of this and Terry is really good player who fits pretty much ideally between Melo and Hayward.

Hayward + Washington + future 2nd round pick…could definitely net us a star and a future 1st round pick. Just saying…


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Chapelchilla wrote:

JDR720 wrote:I wonder if this is linked to Fran saying Gordon is on the trade block.

It would make sense. Our we really going to cap out the team around LaMelo in his 2nd year with Rozier and Gordon both making max contracts? We're pretty much recreating the Boston Celtics team when Irving was there if we are.

Neither Rozier or Hayward is making a real MAX contract, that’s based on semantics not figures. Embiid and Trae are basically getting 50 million a season.
Hayward is at 29, Rozier 24. Trae is a baller but not more then twice as good as Terry. If we can’t resign Miles or Ball that would be crippling but I don’t see that as the outcome here do you?
We have young , cheap but impressionable talent signed up for the next 3 years so spending some money for talented, unselfish vets who can shoot and provide steady leadership is likely a good investment now.

They're making close to 55m combined. That's pretty much half our cap space. One true max player or Rozier + Gordon? I think that choice is obvious. Not that we can sign one of those types anyway, so we have to settle.

Miles will sign an extension, I don't think that's an issue. Ball is another situation. He is 100% a big market player. We need to have the most talented team we can manage if we don't want him to leave. If we're a middling, capped out team there is no way he is staying. That's why it's critical that Kai, Bouknight work out and even Miles needs to take a step or three forward.

It's what is happening to Portland. It's already happened here with Kemba, although that actually worked well for us. We either have a top 3 East team by the time Melo is up for extension, or I think he'll go somewhere else. LaVar Ball is going to raise hell if we can't get out of the 1st round. Let alone miss the playoffs

Rozier's contract won't lead to that though. Like I mentioned, he can probably be CJ McCollum for us. It's Gordon who is really screwing us. 30m for a guy who misses 1/3rd of the season is a terrible contract.

Roll Tide 09 wrote:Hayward + Washington + future 2nd round pick…could definitely net us a star and a future 1st round pick. Just saying…


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I’d like to know what “star” that gets us…