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2020 Draft Discussion

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MasterIchiro
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Re: 2020 Draft Discussion 

Post#1421 » by MasterIchiro » Thu Oct 15, 2020 6:30 pm

Rays Pompadour wrote:Okay, reports (not rumors) have Minnesota and Golden State wanting to trade out of #1 and #2. Curiously, there are no reports or rumors of Charlotte wanting to do anything similar. That could be excellent corporate discipline, or it could be that the Hornets value #3 more than we free traders might like or want. I suspect the latter...and here's why:

If the top three draft prospects are all virtually the same, meaning that each have big potential but also big warts, then it becomes an eye-of-the-beholder thing. And, so without a true #1 or #2, #3 becomes a defacto #1 pick. That's not cause to crow in such a mediocre draft, but it does point to how the Hornets might value their pick. For the first time in a long while, Charlotte might be able to get a #1 draft pick at #3. And if teams lower in the draft aren't willing to pay up for #1 or #2, they certainly aren't going to pay #1 pick value for #3.

Therefore, whomever is there at #3, Wiseman, Edwards or Ball, the Hornets will select that player and not trade back. A darkhorse is Deni Avdija, but I think the best shot Charlotte has in hitting a home run at #3 is with those three main guys.


If teams trade up for LaMelo and Ball 1-2, I believe we take Avdija. If Edwards and Avdija are gone, Kupchak may take Toppin over LaMelo, Wiseman and Okongwu. Heads would explode but there it is.
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Re: 2020 Draft Discussion 

Post#1422 » by Vanderbilt_Grad » Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:45 pm

LofJ wrote:https://hoopshype.com/2020/10/14/executives-share-worst-interview-answers-from-nba-draft-prospects/amp/

This is an entertaining read. Off the court stuff is the one area that us fans don't have great intel about, but it can be the difference between getting drafted high in the lottery or not getting drafted at all.

This was a good read!
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Re: 2020 Draft Discussion 

Post#1423 » by _tijo_ » Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:18 pm

MasterIchiro wrote:If teams trade up for LaMelo and Ball 1-2, I believe we take Avdija. If Edwards and Avdija are gone, Kupchak may take Toppin over LaMelo, Wiseman and Okongwu. Heads would explode but there it is.


Assuming you meant LaMelo and Edwards in your first sentence. So you think Mitch's board looks like:
Edwards
Avdija
Toppin
Ball
Wiseman
Okongwu

Personally, I like the fit of Okongwu with our other guys. But I think that Mitch won't draft for fit, he'll draft the most talented person regardless. I also think he'll go international, based on his comments on scouting, so Ball, Hayes, or Avdija. So I think his board looks more like:

Ball
Hayes
Avdija
Edwards
Wiseman
Okongwu

I think Ball goes before 3, so it's either Hayes or Avdija for us. I also think he has something up his sleeve for a post-draft trade or free agency. I don't know what, but I won't be surprised if we bring in a piece. He finally has the room to do something, I think our draft picks won't be our only new additions.
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Re: 2020 Draft Discussion 

Post#1424 » by 316Hornets » Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:54 pm

I really like Edwards or Ball for star potential and direction of the league. I know it's a longshot but if we could somehow make a trade to get both of them, it would be amazing.

Say Wiseman goes 1.
We trade with Warriors to get Ball at 2.
Then take Edwards at 3.

A realistic trade could be:
Monk, Graham, Rozier, 2020 #32, 2023 1st for Wiggins and 2020 #2.



Ball
Edwards
Wiggins
PJ
Zeller/free agent
Who at 3? My board - Ratings
1 Lamelo 100
2 Edwards 99
3 Hayes 97
4 Wiseman 97
5 Okongwu 96
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Re: 2020 Draft Discussion 

Post#1425 » by yosemiteben » Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:59 pm

Maybe I'm wrong, but I really think you guys are reading too much into the international angle. The fact that we scouted international prospects in person is just doing due diligence IMO, not a sign that we are favoring those guys over other prospects.
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Re: 2020 Draft Discussion 

Post#1426 » by Shaqsoldestboy » Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:46 pm

yosemiteben wrote:Maybe I'm wrong, but I really think you guys are reading too much into the international angle. The fact that we scouted international prospects in person is just doing due diligence IMO, not a sign that we are favoring those guys over other prospects.


Yes, do keep in mind that the scouting has been going on for years. We just got the #3 pick a couple months ago.

316Hornets wrote:I really like Edwards or Ball for star potential and direction of the league. I know it's a longshot but if we could somehow make a trade to get both of them, it would be amazing.

Say Wiseman goes 1.
We trade with Warriors to get Ball at 2.
Then take Edwards at 3.

A realistic trade could be:
Monk, Graham, Rozier, 2020 #32, 2023 1st for Wiggins and 2020 #2.



Ball
Edwards
Wiggins
PJ
Zeller/free agent


Would you actually do that? You just gave away our three best players and picks for an underachiever and a kid who hasn't played a minute in the league yet.
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Re: 2020 Draft Discussion 

Post#1427 » by MasterIchiro » Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:52 pm

_tijo_ wrote:
MasterIchiro wrote:If teams trade up for LaMelo and Ball 1-2, I believe we take Avdija. If Edwards and Avdija are gone, Kupchak may take Toppin over LaMelo, Wiseman and Okongwu. Heads would explode but there it is.


Assuming you meant LaMelo and Edwards in your first sentence. So you think Mitch's board looks like:
Edwards
Avdija
Toppin
Ball
Wiseman
Okongwu


Personally, I like the fit of Okongwu with our other guys. But I think that Mitch won't draft for fit, he'll draft the most talented person regardless. I also think he'll go international, based on his comments on scouting, so Ball, Hayes, or Avdija. So I think his board looks more like:

Ball
Hayes
Avdija
Edwards
Wiseman
Okongwu

I think Ball goes before 3, so it's either Hayes or Avdija for us. I also think he has something up his sleeve for a post-draft trade or free agency. I don't know what, but I won't be surprised if we bring in a piece. He finally has the room to do something, I think our draft picks won't be our only new additions.


That's my board and I don't see significant separation between Edwards, Avdija and Toppin, so if Mitch takes Toppin I won't be like oh I had my heart set on Edwards I'm so depressed. Or if he takes Avdija I won't be like dang, just missed Edwards oh well. I think all three can be coached up in our culture I just suspect, based on Mitch's pattern of drafting more ready and more well- rounded players (Miles, PJ, Devonte' Martin) and having early success with them, that he has Avdija and Toppin higher than other GM's. And I won't rule out if he has Avdija #1. I can't get through a full video of Hayes. I don't like his form and I think his sub 30% from 3 is real. But then again I hated Oladipo's form as well and underestimated his athleticism and handle. I'm not comfortable with Hayes at 3. I think he makes sense for the Pistons. We have Devonte' as a savvy floor general and organizer. We don't need to double dip in that kind of player especially if he doesn't have a trait that really jumps out.
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Re: 2020 Draft Discussion 

Post#1428 » by Shaqsoldestboy » Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:09 pm

I am happy we got the number three pick. There is only one player at the top of the mocks that I don't want that is Ball. I understand what a great player he is. I just have this thing about point guards who can't shoot. I need my point guard to drain his open shots. If Edwards and Wiseman go top two I hope that we take Toppin or Avdija. I have a sneaking suspicion that Avdija is the steal of this draft anyway.
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Re: 2020 Draft Discussion 

Post#1429 » by DY_nasty » Thu Oct 15, 2020 11:00 pm

I think our absolute best case scenario is that Ball falls to us, we somehow incite a bidding war between two or three dumb and excitable teams, trade back, still land OO somehow, and make off like bandits.

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Re: 2020 Draft Discussion 

Post#1430 » by Vanderbilt_Grad » Thu Oct 15, 2020 11:11 pm

Just over a month away.....
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Re: 2020 Draft Discussion 

Post#1431 » by 316Hornets » Thu Oct 15, 2020 11:42 pm

Shaqsoldestboy wrote:
Would you actually do that? You just gave away our three best players and picks for an underachiever and a kid who hasn't played a minute in the league yet.


#1 I didn't give away PJ, our best asset
#2 Monk isn't anywhere close to one of our best players

In actuality, minus the fluff, I see the trade as 2020 #32, 2023 1st, and Graham for 2020 #2. If we could do that without the other players, that's fine but I do think Wiggins could be a nice asset.

The trade shouldn't be considered that crazy considering the Atlanta Hawks did something similar when after drafting Trae and Huerter, traded Mike Muscala and Dennis Schroeder for a protected 2022 1st.

Anytime you draft someone that is supposed to be franchise altering, there's going to be dominos to fall afterwards. Whoever we take at #3 will have to be the focal point of the rebuild for at least the next couple years while we evaluate their upside. If that guy happens to be a guard, we will almost assuredly trade at least one of the guards I offered up.
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Re: 2020 Draft Discussion 

Post#1432 » by Shaqsoldestboy » Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:26 am

316Hornets wrote:
Shaqsoldestboy wrote:
Would you actually do that? You just gave away our three best players and picks for an underachiever and a kid who hasn't played a minute in the league yet.


#1 I didn't give away PJ, our best asset
#2 Monk isn't anywhere close to one of our best players

Huerter and Schroeder are no where near Graham and Rozier.
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Re: 2020 Draft Discussion 

Post#1433 » by amcoolio » Fri Oct 16, 2020 5:27 am

Man I have a strong feeling we are gonna regret not taking Hayes
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Re: 2020 Draft Discussion 

Post#1434 » by -Ian- » Fri Oct 16, 2020 1:24 pm

amcoolio wrote:Man I have a strong feeling we are gonna regret not taking Hayes

Same here. Which is why I'm really praying we pick him.
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Re: 2020 Draft Discussion 

Post#1435 » by UNCNYC » Fri Oct 16, 2020 6:09 pm

316Hornets wrote:
Shaqsoldestboy wrote:
Would you actually do that? You just gave away our three best players and picks for an underachiever and a kid who hasn't played a minute in the league yet.


#1 I didn't give away PJ, our best asset
#2 Monk isn't anywhere close to one of our best players

In actuality, minus the fluff, I see the trade as 2020 #32, 2023 1st, and Graham for 2020 #2. If we could do that without the other players, that's fine but I do think Wiggins could be a nice asset.

The trade shouldn't be considered that crazy considering the Atlanta Hawks did something similar when after drafting Trae and Huerter, traded Mike Muscala and Dennis Schroeder for a protected 2022 1st.

Anytime you draft someone that is supposed to be franchise altering, there's going to be dominos to fall afterwards. Whoever we take at #3 will have to be the focal point of the rebuild for at least the next couple years while we evaluate their upside. If that guy happens to be a guard, we will almost assuredly trade at least one of the guards I offered up.


I agree with the idea. Only I would rather

Trade Graham, Rozier and Monk, pick 32 for pick 2.

PICK 2 - Killian Hayes / Ball

PICK 3 - Tyler Bey / Vassell

PICK 56- Isaiah Joe, Ty'shon Alexander, Elleby, Karim Mane

Hayes / Martin
Joe / Batum
Miles / Bey
PJ / McDaniels
Zeller / Biz
UPDATED 10-6-2020

3 - Tyrell Terry, Killian Hayes, Devin Vassell, LaMelo Ball, Tyler Bey

32 - Isaiah Joe, Ty'shon Alexander, CJ Elleby, Karim Mane, Skylar Mays, Jay Scrubb

56 - LaMar Stevens, Paul Reed, Rayshaun Hammonds, K. Doolitle

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Re: 2020 Draft Discussion 

Post#1436 » by UNCNYC » Fri Oct 16, 2020 6:27 pm

I am bizarre enough to trade away our top 3 players lol

Trade Graham, Rozier, pick 32 for pick 2.

Trade PJ to knicks for pick 8 and future 1st.

PICK 2 - Vassell

PICK 3 - Bey

PICK 8 - Terry

PICK 56 - Joe, Alexander, Elleby, Mane

Terry / Martin
Vassell / Joe
Bey / Batum
Miles / McDaniels
Zeller / Biz

And a future 1st thrown in lol.
UPDATED 10-6-2020

3 - Tyrell Terry, Killian Hayes, Devin Vassell, LaMelo Ball, Tyler Bey

32 - Isaiah Joe, Ty'shon Alexander, CJ Elleby, Karim Mane, Skylar Mays, Jay Scrubb

56 - LaMar Stevens, Paul Reed, Rayshaun Hammonds, K. Doolitle

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Re: 2020 Draft Discussion 

Post#1437 » by amcoolio » Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:22 pm

If GS was up for it and wanted Graham, I would make that trade but I would take Hayes and Wiseman not two guards
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Re: 2020 Draft Discussion 

Post#1438 » by luciano-davidwesley » Sat Oct 17, 2020 3:31 am

UNCNYC wrote:
316Hornets wrote:
Shaqsoldestboy wrote:
Would you actually do that? You just gave away our three best players and picks for an underachiever and a kid who hasn't played a minute in the league yet.


#1 I didn't give away PJ, our best asset
#2 Monk isn't anywhere close to one of our best players

In actuality, minus the fluff, I see the trade as 2020 #32, 2023 1st, and Graham for 2020 #2. If we could do that without the other players, that's fine but I do think Wiggins could be a nice asset.

The trade shouldn't be considered that crazy considering the Atlanta Hawks did something similar when after drafting Trae and Huerter, traded Mike Muscala and Dennis Schroeder for a protected 2022 1st.

Anytime you draft someone that is supposed to be franchise altering, there's going to be dominos to fall afterwards. Whoever we take at #3 will have to be the focal point of the rebuild for at least the next couple years while we evaluate their upside. If that guy happens to be a guard, we will almost assuredly trade at least one of the guards I offered up.


I agree with the idea. Only I would rather

Trade Graham, Rozier and Monk, pick 32 for pick 2.

PICK 2 - Killian Hayes / Ball

PICK 3 - Tyler Bey / Vassell

PICK 56- Isaiah Joe, Ty'shon Alexander, Elleby, Karim Mane

Hayes / Martin
Joe / Batum
Miles / Bey
PJ / McDaniels
Zeller / Biz


We won't have to give away assets to move up to #2 if you want to pick Hayes. He'll almost certainly be there at #3. It doesn't make any sense. If you want Bey or Vassell we'd only have to get a pick in the #10 range.
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Re: 2020 Draft Discussion 

Post#1439 » by amcoolio » Sat Oct 17, 2020 3:34 am

luciano-davidwesley wrote:
UNCNYC wrote:
316Hornets wrote:
#1 I didn't give away PJ, our best asset
#2 Monk isn't anywhere close to one of our best players

In actuality, minus the fluff, I see the trade as 2020 #32, 2023 1st, and Graham for 2020 #2. If we could do that without the other players, that's fine but I do think Wiggins could be a nice asset.

The trade shouldn't be considered that crazy considering the Atlanta Hawks did something similar when after drafting Trae and Huerter, traded Mike Muscala and Dennis Schroeder for a protected 2022 1st.

Anytime you draft someone that is supposed to be franchise altering, there's going to be dominos to fall afterwards. Whoever we take at #3 will have to be the focal point of the rebuild for at least the next couple years while we evaluate their upside. If that guy happens to be a guard, we will almost assuredly trade at least one of the guards I offered up.


I agree with the idea. Only I would rather

Trade Graham, Rozier and Monk, pick 32 for pick 2.

PICK 2 - Killian Hayes / Ball

PICK 3 - Tyler Bey / Vassell

PICK 56- Isaiah Joe, Ty'shon Alexander, Elleby, Karim Mane

Hayes / Martin
Joe / Batum
Miles / Bey
PJ / McDaniels
Zeller / Biz


We won't have to give away assets to move up to #2 if you want to pick Hayes. He'll almost certainly be there at #3. It doesn't make any sense.


He's adding pick 2, not trading up
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Re: 2020 Draft Discussion 

Post#1440 » by luciano-davidwesley » Sat Oct 17, 2020 3:58 am

amcoolio wrote:
luciano-davidwesley wrote:
UNCNYC wrote:
I agree with the idea. Only I would rather

Trade Graham, Rozier and Monk, pick 32 for pick 2.

PICK 2 - Killian Hayes / Ball

PICK 3 - Tyler Bey / Vassell

PICK 56- Isaiah Joe, Ty'shon Alexander, Elleby, Karim Mane

Hayes / Martin
Joe / Batum
Miles / Bey
PJ / McDaniels
Zeller / Biz


We won't have to give away assets to move up to #2 if you want to pick Hayes. He'll almost certainly be there at #3. It doesn't make any sense.


He's adding pick 2, not trading up

I edited my post apologies for the misunderstanding. It still doesn't make sense as I explained in my edit.

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