2020 Pre-Draft Discussion

[BigSlam]

Once again about limited Avdija's athleticism... Just to be clear: Deni is one of fastest 6'8" + players in open court like... ever.

Very, very bold statement there.

https://www.reddit.com/r/NBA_Draft/comments/igv0qc/deni_avidja_straight_line_speed/

You quoted your own post from another site as validation?

Colour me skeptical!!

[SWedd523]

Once again about limited Avdija's athleticism... Just to be clear: Deni is one of fastest 6'8" + players in open court like... ever.

Very, very bold statement there.

https://www.reddit.com/r/NBA_Draft/comments/igv0qc/deni_avidja_straight_line_speed/

And this is about the vertical:

Like, I like Advija as a prospect and probably have him around third on my personal board, but bro...

You're talking about LeBron tier speed on the court. Is anybody projecting him to be an elite athlete, much less a historically elite one?

[James Gatz]

What worries me more about Deni's shooting is his low FT%. It's something a like 57% on a couple hundred of attempts. Not many guys who shoot below 60% turn into even average shooters at the next level. It certainly could be an anxiety issue, but that doesn't make me feel much better either.

Defensively I think Deni will be fine/pretty good. There aren't really any great wing defenders with his athleticism and shorter wingspan. This isn't a knock on him more so just being aware of his ceiling.

For me, he could be a solid 4th option on a good team. I'd be fine with that in the mid lottery but not at the top.

Once again about limited Avdija's athleticism... Just to be clear: Deni is one of fastest 6'8" + players in open court like... ever. He can run from steal to dunk almost coast-to-coast in less than 4 sec (with the ball !). He also has some 38" if not better max vertical. And his first step while not elite is still much quicker than of average 6'8"+ NBA player. He is maybe not freak athlete but clearly plus-athlete well above average athlete for NBA forward.

Now... His FT problems are certainly weird and certainly is concern but still several things to be said. First FT% and 3p% aren't even remotely linked as tight as many draft experts (or "experts" think). For example there was the season when Omri Casspi was literally one of best 3P shooters in NBA with 40.9% on almost 4 3PA per game... Same season he shot just 65% FT%.

I think Deni's 3P shot has rather good chance to translate and improve as he has good range, high point of release and reasonably quick release.

There is certainly variance possible within a season. That's why I was talking about his FT% across every season in both leagues.

Also Casspi is a career 36.8% from 3 on 2.3 attempts. He's a pretty good shooter but not someone we should view as elite. As you said, one season where he shot above 40% isn't a good judge.

Deni is not one of the fastest 6'8 guys ever. If he was Lebron then he would go #1 without a doubt.

Deni will be an average/above average athlete. Average/above average defender. Hopefully an average shooter. A good secondary initiator. These are all things that help you win basketball games, but not really worthy of a top 3 pick even in a draft without top guys.

[arusinov]

Very, very bold statement there.

https://www.reddit.com/r/NBA_Draft/comments/igv0qc/deni_avidja_straight_line_speed/

And this is about the vertical:

Like, I like Advija as a prospect and probably have him around third on my personal board, but bro...

You're talking about LeBron tier speed on the court. Is anybody projecting him to be an elite athlete, much less a historically elite one?

Well. I don't know. The question is ... do you believe your eyes or not?
It's not some estimation.
He's extremely fast in open court, you can see it in the reddit post I prepared for the same question. His mom was track and field athlete which hold some Israeli records once and he probably got genes to be fast there.
Also you can perform calculation how high 6'10" (with boots) player should jump to touch rim with his head (and he literally does it in attached Instagram link)

No. It's still not LeBron level athleticism but he's well above average athlete

[BigSlam]

This is starting to have a Jeremy Lin type feel to it.

I’m getting scared. Very, very scared....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[driveandkick]

This is starting to have a Jeremy Lin type feel to it.

I’m getting scared. Very, very scared....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Explain

[arusinov]

Deni is not one of the fastest 6'8 guys ever. If he was Lebron then he would go #1 without a doubt.

Deni will be an average/above average athlete. Average/above average defender. Hopefully an average shooter. A good secondary initiator. These are all things that help you win basketball games, but not really worthy of a top 3 pick even in a draft without top guys.

Hm... There's difference between quickest (including lateral movement) and fastest. He's not one of quickest (while he is not really slow in lateral movement as many people claim and for player his size he's quite quick) but he's certainly one of fastest.

Did you look the link I've sent? You see him there running almost full court with the ball(!) in some 3.8 - 3.9 sec (and 3/4 court sprint without ball in 3.2 sec is considered very good for player this size). He did similar runs in I-BSL too several times. He routinely runs faster with the ball then defenders trying to catch him without ball...

Half year ago even I (biased Israeli fan) would say he's not top 3 too... But who is the top 3 picks in this " draft without top guys": kid with broken shot which isn't self conscious enough to understand his problems? guy which played whole 3 games in college (and wasn't very impressive in the only high level game in his life)? very inefficient guard which played for a bad team? 22 years old which can't play defense (believe me with such defense Maccabi's coach would give him single not garbage minute in Euroleague)?

I believe that Avdija can became real point forward and so he can be 3rd option on contender or maybe 2nd option on good playoff team, maybe occasional all-star - quite good ceiling while he is safer bet then most other "top" options

[arusinov]

You quoted your own post from another site as validation?

Colour me skeptical!!

Hm... It's not validation - It's my answer to the same question on other site.
I thought there's no need to copy it here. But if I need to explain it I will just post it fully:

Well. When I claimed that in open court Deni is literally one of fastest 6'8"+ players you've ever seen... many didn't believe me... like "sure, he's fast but how FAST is this fast?"

It's simple.

Here's Avdija's fastbreak dunk against Barcelona:

Watch on YouTube

Look at the clock. Deni gets the ball almost under Maccabi basket at 7:22. He dunks it as 7:19. It's less than 4 seconds. If you thinks that Euroleague's court is shorter... Well. You're right. It is.. but just by 2 feet. And seconds on the clock are.. you know.. same.

[HornetJail]

that is a nice coast to coast drive, pretty fast, but your question is how many 6'8 NBA wings can do that against horrible transition defense? My answer is... most of them.

[arusinov]

that is a nice coast to coast drive, pretty fast, but your question is how many 6'8 NBA wings can do that against horrible transition defense? My answer is... most of them.

Yes. sure. You just don't understand how rare is ability to do it on this speed.
I would say that well over 90% NBA players over 6'8" can't run at even close to this speed without the ball, and with the ball... almost nobody...

And speaking about defense. It's Euroleague game against Barcelona - not some I-BSL game against Ashdod... Many many NBA teams' transition defense at least in regular season not better at all.

[James Gatz]

If he wasn't Israeli do you think you'd be as high on him as a prospect?

It's natural to have bias towards what you're familiar with. Same way most people here are biased towards ACC play.

[BigSlam]

It's natural to have bias towards what you're familiar with. Same way most people here are biased towards ACC play.

Or any Australian prospect!!

[arusinov]

If he wasn't Israeli do you think you'd be as high on him as a prospect?

It's natural to have bias towards what you're familiar with. Same way most people here are biased towards ACC play.

Certainly I'm biased. But the thing is: it's more or less unanimous opinion in Europe that he's the best prospect among Europeans (well above Hayes) this year. His performance at Euro U20 was very persuading and getting I-BSL MVP award as 19 years old is also not small achievement. People in US seem to think I-BSL is "bush league" and it's not - while not one of best leagues in Europe it's still better than any NCAA conference. I would say that player which averages ~13 ppg in I-BSL will usually also average 10+ ppg in France or Italy (I can give you examples if you want) and if it's 19 years old which scored those 13 ppg for Maccabi Tel-Aviv (and not for Eilat or Holon...) would he stay this year in Europe he would be expected to be a top player for more or less every not Euroleague team (and for some Euroleague teams too)

Sure there are question marks and sure he's not Doncic (like vast majority of even very best American prospects aren't close to LeBron) ... I said that I also with all bias didn't think he's top-3 until recently but who is really better top-3 option in this specific draft?

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

Read on Twitter

[James Gatz]

Had to look up the mock having Nico at 9 and of course it's from March.

[MasterIchiro]

Deni isn't a shooter fyi.

Maybe not, but his passing is extraordinary. He would make everyone better on offense. He has very good defensive timing, but it's hard to tell how good he could be, seeing him play against third-tier talent.

Deni played his best defense in Euroleague games actually.
Here's his defensive highlights against Anadolu Efes which is literally the very highest level you can find outside NBA as this team was in the 1st place in Euroleague:

Read on Twitter

Also Avdija had 12.9 ppg on 61% TS% in Israeli BSL which is at worst same level as LaMelo's NBL. Avdija is maybe not great shooter but he is very effective scorer... And speaking about shooting he made 35.3% on ~4 3PA per game in I-BSL - it's not like he is shooter like Simmons as some people think

He looks very strong as a defender, very coordinated, keeps his body weight centered and changes direction and speed quickly. He looks to be the complete package - dribbling, passing, shooting, scoring, defense, versatility, professionalism. The big question for him is if one of his more valuable traits can evolve - playmaking and/or shooting. If both develop, he's the steal of the draft. Can't wait for draft night!

[MasterIchiro]

Once again about limited Avdija's athleticism... Just to be clear: Deni is one of fastest 6'8" + players in open court like... ever.

Very, very bold statement there.

https://www.reddit.com/r/NBA_Draft/comments/igv0qc/deni_avidja_straight_line_speed/

And this is about the vertical:

Damn. Stud.

[MasterIchiro]

You quoted your own post from another site as validation?

Colour me skeptical!!

Hm... It's not validation - It's my answer to the same question on other site.
I thought there's no need to copy it here. But if I need to explain it I will just post it fully:

Well. When I claimed that in open court Deni is literally one of fastest 6'8"+ players you've ever seen... many didn't believe me... like "sure, he's fast but how FAST is this fast?"

It's simple.

Here's Avdija's fastbreak dunk against Barcelona:

Watch on YouTube

Look at the clock. Deni gets the ball almost under Maccabi basket at 7:22. He dunks it as 7:19. It's less than 4 seconds. If you thinks that Euroleague's court is shorter... Well. You're right. It is.. but just by 2 feet. And seconds on the clock are.. you know.. same.

Jesus! For a guy who can play power forward he's lightning and with a controlled tight dribble. He's a much better ball handler than PJ and Miles. It's not close.

[MasterIchiro]

If he wasn't Israeli do you think you'd be as high on him as a prospect?

It's natural to have bias towards what you're familiar with. Same way most people here are biased towards ACC play.

I'm not Israeli. But I'm super high on Avdija.

[BigSlam]

If he wasn't Israeli do you think you'd be as high on him as a prospect?

It's natural to have bias towards what you're familiar with. Same way most people here are biased towards ACC play.

I'm not Israeli. But I'm super high on Avdija.

And Cole Anthony...
And Anthony Edwards...
And Obi Toppin...
And Okongwu...

You’re like UNCNYC’s apprentice.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk