Around the NBA 11

[JMAC3]

Richards and Carey are going to be standing there looking like baby deer in the headlights as teams run layup lines on us. I don't really understand why this board needs to see them fail before they drop it. Would you really feel better if Carey played 20 minutes a game and looked like complete dog ****? Because as a 19 year old second rounder, that is almost surely going to be the case. Let them go to the Gleague bubble, get some confidence and play some major minutes and once they get back maybe they will be ready.

I appreciate your thoughtful take on things - often more so when I disagree with it - but an awful lot of "this board" in your posts. Doesn't make for effective communication - 'everyone thinks this and thinking this is stupid.' Could be 100% wrong, but I don't recall anyone here wanting more than limited or garbage time for either Carey or Richards - a minute or four of learning on the job. If there's anyone out there that truly thinks either should be seeing serious, consistent court time (stealing minutes from Zeller/Biz), please raise your hand, so you can debate directly and spare the rest of us.

And, I totally agree with you on one point. If coach and crew think neither are ready to contribute at all right now (which I can fully appreciate), they need to be seeing lots of time in the G. Again, if they belong in the G, put them in the G to figure out what we've got. If you're gonna keep them on the bench, the only opportunity to vet and develop is via spot minutes.

Yeah, I apologize if anyone feels like I grouped them into something they were not apart of. Just hard to remember exactly who says what all the time, but I know it is something that has brought up a lot by a lot of different people. My take on playing Richards 4-5 minutes a night is you are probably taking those minutes away from PJ or Bridges and also those 4-5 minutes can be the difference between us staying close enough to pull out a win or lose by double digits.

It is going to be hard for those minutes to come from Biz because we already are playing small with PJ, so likely it means that PJ plays less center which means less minutes for him at 5 and less minutes for Bridges at 4. If we start to really suck and we know for a fact our season is in the gutter I am for playing the rookies, but for me it is way to early to put a player on the court who has consistently not done anything or players who were the same age/draft slot have consistently not done anything. It is just setting it up for failure and disappointment. Just because we have no better options doesn't all of sudden increase the chances that Vernon will be good vs the history of the NBA.

It is the same thing with us being disappointed with Bridges, but in reality most players taken 12-16 who are forwards have taken 2-4 years to really become anything of worth. Just because we are a bad team and Bridges is one our better players doesn't mean he should have to perform at the level of a top 5 pick because we do not have anything better, it is putting unrealistic expectations on that player.

[MPM]

Richards and Carey are going to be standing there looking like baby deer in the headlights as teams run layup lines on us. I don't really understand why this board needs to see them fail before they drop it. Would you really feel better if Carey played 20 minutes a game and looked like complete dog ****? Because as a 19 year old second rounder, that is almost surely going to be the case. Let them go to the Gleague bubble, get some confidence and play some major minutes and once they get back maybe they will be ready.

I appreciate your thoughtful take on things - often more so when I disagree with it - but an awful lot of "this board" in your posts. Doesn't make for effective communication - 'everyone thinks this and thinking this is stupid.' Could be 100% wrong, but I don't recall anyone here wanting more than limited or garbage time for either Carey or Richards - a minute or four of learning on the job. If there's anyone out there that truly thinks either should be seeing serious, consistent court time (stealing minutes from Zeller/Biz), please raise your hand, so you can debate directly and spare the rest of us.

And, I totally agree with you on one point. If coach and crew think neither are ready to contribute at all right now (which I can fully appreciate), they need to be seeing lots of time in the G. Again, if they belong in the G, put them in the G to figure out what we've got. If you're gonna keep them on the bench, the only opportunity to vet and develop is via spot minutes.

Yeah, I apologize if anyone feels like I grouped them into something they were not apart of. Just hard to remember exactly who says what all the time, but I know it is something that has brought up a lot by a lot of different people. My take on playing Richards 4-5 minutes a night is you are probably taking those minutes away from PJ or Bridges and also those 4-5 minutes can be the difference between us staying close enough to pull out a win or lose by double digits.

It is going to be hard for those minutes to come from Biz because we already are playing small with PJ, so likely it means that PJ plays less center which means less minutes for him at 5 and less minutes for Bridges at 4. If we start to really suck and we know for a fact our season is in the gutter I am for playing the rookies, but for me it is way to early to put a player on the court who has consistently not done anything or players who were the same age/draft slot have consistently not done anything. It is just setting it up for failure and disappointment. Just because we have no better options doesn't all of sudden increase the chances that Vernon will be good vs the history of the NBA.

It is the same thing with us being disappointed with Bridges, but in reality most players taken 12-16 who are forwards have taken 2-4 years to really become anything of worth. Just because we are a bad team and Bridges is one our better players doesn't mean he should have to perform at the level of a top 5 pick because we do not have anything better, it is putting unrealistic expectations on that player.

Solid perspective to consider Bridges and PJ our front court 'developmental guys' while viewing Carey and Richards as wait-and-see prospects. It would warrant getting as much out of the former as you can. I still view Bridges/PJ as works in progress. Miles is getting 26 mins a night, PJ 29 mins, so not like either are being pushed to the limit. That being said, I don't think we're taking anything away from their development by stealing away a few end of game minutes at 5. However - to counter my counter, an overlooked point (I'm guilty of this and you point it out) is that we may have only seen 2-3 lost-cause games thus far, so not like there's been huge opportunities for JB to get minutes for Carey/Richards. There's no need to play them in games where we're competing for the W.

Also, on the G league thing. Someone may be able to illuminate me on this: I believe in quickly assessing the value of assets (in any life pursuit). So, if you have two second rounders, you want to know sooner than later whether they're worth developing, playing, cutting or trading. With camps, summer league, etc. not happening, you largely do this via actual court time - the Hornets or the Swarm. As noted, I think if you're not going to play either second rounder they should be in Greensboro, but what does that mean in terms of Covid? Wondering whether it's more difficult to move players up and down due to protocols? If we may just be planting them on the bench as backup bodies in case our team gets hit with covid issues, etc.?

[JMAC3]

Also, on the G league thing. Someone may be able to illuminate me on this: I believe in quickly assessing the value of assets (in any life pursuit). So, if you have two second rounders, you want to know sooner than later whether they're worth developing, playing, cutting or trading. With camps, summer league, etc. not happening, you largely do this via actual court time - the Hornets or the Swarm. As noted, I think if you're not going to play either second rounder they should be in Greensboro, but what does that mean in terms of Covid? Wondering whether it's more difficult to move players up and down due to protocols? If we may just be planting them on the bench as backup bodies in case our team gets hit with covid issues, etc.?

The GLeague is not running currently and will not run like it normally does this season. Instead they are doing a GLeague Bubble, I believe at the start of March. I am sure the plan is for Riller, McDaniels, Carey and Richards to play huge roles in that tournament.

Doesn't seem like it was long ago, several people were saying we should send LaMelo down to the Gleague and now he is arguably our best player according to several key performance indicators.

[JMAC3]

If the Knicks had any type of shooting they might actually be alright. Watching them shoot horrible vs us and then 5/27 against Magic yesterday is painful.

Speaking of Magic, they need a point guard really bad. Cole Anthony is not getting the job done and I am not sure Michael Carter Williams helps much when he gets back. If do not make a trade, they are not making the playoffs this year.

Deandre Hunter looks like he has figured it out this year.

DeJounte Murray with the LaMelo line last night 9-11-9

Robert Covington has been one of worst players in the league this year, Blazers gave up two firsts.

Chris Paul has been pretty bad this year, Mikal Bridges is the best player on the Suns this year and it isn't close.

Boucher with 21-10 and three blocks in win over Mavs. He doesn't just destroy us.

Wayne Ellington 24 points on 7/11 from three point range. He would be such a weapon playing for us.

Christian Wood might be new empty stats guy. 30-9 in a loss to Bulls last night.

Zach Lavine 33 points on 11/16 from field.

[MPM]

The GLeague is not running currently and will not run like it normally does this season. Instead they are doing a GLeague Bubble, I believe at the start of March. I am sure the plan is for Riller, McDaniels, Carey and Richards to play huge roles in that tournament.

Thx - 'splains it.

Fan of G-league as an organization, but haven't been following the latest happenings. Sucks - love prospects being able to work on their game within our system while competing.

[amcoolio]

So remember when I was really pushing to trade Kemba to the Cavs for the 8th pick because I really loved Sexton

[JMAC3]

Xavier Tillman started in a game that Memphis won.
Meanwhile our rookie centres live on the bench

Also, for anyone who is against playing small, but beating the Xavier Tillman drum.

Tillman measured 6-7.5 at the combine with a 8-10 standing reach.

PJ has a 8-11 standing reach.

PJ also has 2.4 blocks per 100 possessions compared to Tillman 1.2 blocks per 100 possessions.

Just not sure he is all that different than just playing PJ at the center, and PJ is also a much better offensive player at this point.

[penquin11]

I'm going to hop on the bandwagon here and say that Collin Sexton is the "real deal" as far as scoring goes. Dude is hitting 50% from 3 this year so far on ~5 3's a game. Not that he isn't having success inside the arc, but I'd like to see him commit to his 3 point game more. He is kind of an odd player though, being as small as he is (6'1 192) and not really being a great passer. He reminds me of a smaller Kevin Martin- though his FT% is down this year.

[James Gatz]

I'm going to hop on the bandwagon here and say that Collin Sexton is the "real deal" as far as scoring goes. Dude is hitting 50% from 3 this year so far on ~5 3's a game. Not that he isn't having success inside the arc, but I'd like to see him commit to his 3 point game more. He is kind of an odd player though, being as small as he is (6'1 192) and not really being a great passer. He reminds me of a smaller Kevin Martin- though his FT% is down this year.

For me it's all about his defensive side of the ball. He was probably the worst defender in the league last year outside of maybe trae young. Looked better last night, but I'm not going to pretend I've watched much of the Cavs this year.

[SWedd523]

So remember when I was really pushing to trade Kemba to the Cavs for the 8th pick because I really loved Sexton

I'm going to hop on the bandwagon here and say that Collin Sexton is the "real deal" as far as scoring goes. Dude is hitting 50% from 3 this year so far on ~5 3's a game. Not that he isn't having success inside the arc, but I'd like to see him commit to his 3 point game more. He is kind of an odd player though, being as small as he is (6'1 192) and not really being a great passer. He reminds me of a smaller Kevin Martin- though his FT% is down this year.

So are we talking about Colin Sexton or Terry Rozier?

[penquin11]

So remember when I was really pushing to trade Kemba to the Cavs for the 8th pick because I really loved Sexton

I'm going to hop on the bandwagon here and say that Collin Sexton is the "real deal" as far as scoring goes. Dude is hitting 50% from 3 this year so far on ~5 3's a game. Not that he isn't having success inside the arc, but I'd like to see him commit to his 3 point game more. He is kind of an odd player though, being as small as he is (6'1 192) and not really being a great passer. He reminds me of a smaller Kevin Martin- though his FT% is down this year.

So are we talking about Colin Sexton or Terry Rozier?

Holy **** I didn't even think of that player comp. The numbers are SCARY close too.

[SWedd523]

So remember when I was really pushing to trade Kemba to the Cavs for the 8th pick because I really loved Sexton

I'm going to hop on the bandwagon here and say that Collin Sexton is the "real deal" as far as scoring goes. Dude is hitting 50% from 3 this year so far on ~5 3's a game. Not that he isn't having success inside the arc, but I'd like to see him commit to his 3 point game more. He is kind of an odd player though, being as small as he is (6'1 192) and not really being a great passer. He reminds me of a smaller Kevin Martin- though his FT% is down this year.

So are we talking about Colin Sexton or Terry Rozier?

Holy **** I didn't even think of that player comp. The numbers are SCARY close too.

Reinforces my belief that we seriously underappreciate Rozier

[penquin11]

On the contrary I think Rozier has been awesome. I was pretty down on the deal when we made it- because he was coming off a bad year. But he has been a solid player for us. He ALWAYS seems to be flying around on the court. Good, but not great, player.

[Liver_Pooty]

So are we talking about Colin Sexton or Terry Rozier?

Holy **** I didn't even think of that player comp. The numbers are SCARY close too.

Reinforces my belief that we seriously underappreciate Rozier

One could say due to Kembas unfortunate knee issues we won that trade as well.

[Chapelchilla]

Kevin Porter JR just traded to the Rockets for a 2nd rounder. That guy is gonna be playing in China faster then Monk if he doesn't get it together pronto.

[JMAC3]

Kevin Porter JR just traded to the Rockets for a 2nd rounder. That guy is gonna be playing in China faster then Monk if he doesn't get it together pronto.

One of those moves that if Porter works out every fan will be pissed their team did not trade for him when it was so obvious, but if he flames out again you won't hear a peep.

Personally it would be a pass for me. I would rather keep a healthy work environment for my team then bring in a toxic player who has 6th man level talent.

[Diop]

Cousins might actually be able to help Porter, he’s experienced how a bad attitude affects your career.

[Snidely FC]

Ha ha Zach Lowe zeroing in on Dwayne Bacon's refusal to pass the rock

Will Dwayne Bacon please pass the ball
I have a soft spot for Bacon's junior-varsity Joe Johnson midrange game. He has a combination of physicality and old-school smooth that is rare today. It's not his fault the Orlando Magic were forced to start him until Wednesday, or that Orlando's offense has gone in the toilet since a fool's-gold 6-2 start.

Some fall-off was coming, but injuries to Evan Fournier and then Markelle Fultz -- atop the absence of Jonathan Isaac -- left Orlando without a critical mass of creative punch, even with Nikola Vucevic enjoying (another) career season.

But it would not fry Bacon to pass, like, once. Few fringy role players have ever suffered from this sort of tunnel vision.

Bacon has 13 dimes in 15 games. He has assisted on 5% of Orlando baskets while on the floor. It is historically rare for a wing to record such a low assist rate. He looks off open teammates, and ignores mismatches:

About 80% of Bacon's drives have ended with him shooting, the highest share in the league, per Second Spectrum.

You can't hog like this when you're shooting 41% and barely producing free throws.

[BigSlam]

Ha ha Zach Lowe zeroing in on Dwayne Bacon's refusal to pass the rock

Will Dwayne Bacon please pass the ball
I have a soft spot for Bacon's junior-varsity Joe Johnson midrange game. He has a combination of physicality and old-school smooth that is rare today. It's not his fault the Orlando Magic were forced to start him until Wednesday, or that Orlando's offense has gone in the toilet since a fool's-gold 6-2 start.

Some fall-off was coming, but injuries to Evan Fournier and then Markelle Fultz -- atop the absence of Jonathan Isaac -- left Orlando without a critical mass of creative punch, even with Nikola Vucevic enjoying (another) career season.

But it would not fry Bacon to pass, like, once. Few fringy role players have ever suffered from this sort of tunnel vision.

Bacon has 13 dimes in 15 games. He has assisted on 5% of Orlando baskets while on the floor. It is historically rare for a wing to record such a low assist rate. He looks off open teammates, and ignores mismatches:

About 80% of Bacon's drives have ended with him shooting, the highest share in the league, per Second Spectrum.

You can't hog like this when you're shooting 41% and barely producing free throws.

Never understood the love some posters had for Bacon.

His "head down, plough forward, no plan B or C" approach was something I called out very early and could not stand.

[BigSlam]

Nets losing to the Cavs again.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. **** amazing.