ImageImage

People don't talk enough about how awful the Hornets are

Moderators: Diop, yosemiteben, BigSlam, JDR720, fatlever

Rich4114
Head Coach
Posts: 6,823
And1: 631
Joined: Mar 11, 2004
Location: PA
   

Re: People don't talk enough about how awful the Hornets are 

Post#161 » by Rich4114 » Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:10 pm

I am starting to think the team came to terms with the painful reality that investing in Kemba as your main guy, with little to no flexibility to pair him with anyone in the next 2-3 seasons would mean committing to a ceiling of what we achieved in 2016. I can't be mad at that. They have to take two steps back to go three steps forward.

I am starting to get annoyed by the whole "Hornets aren't talked about poorly enough" conversation. This thread is titled "People don't talk enough about how awful the Hornets are.". Really? The media doesn't talk about them at all. But now we don't talk about them enough because they're going through a bad stretch? It seems like they get plenty of air time lately about how poorly situated they are. I'd still take our situation over several other franchises situations, like the Knicks or Wizards. The Cavs situation looks pretty bleak as well. So does Minnesota, despite having KAT. Those teams you could argue, are in worse positions than the Hornets and more poorly run. Where would Cleveland be if not for their ridiculous lottery luck over the past two decades? What about Minnesota? Things turn around quickly in sports. We have a better chance to do that now than we did in recent seasons. I remain 100% confident that this team would be talked about in the same way if not worse had we invested $190-$200m in Kemba.

The negativity is just so tiring. We will suck this year, I'm confident in that. Probably next season too. Hopefully we can add two really good young talents to the roster over the next two off-seasons and continue to develop what we already have. Then use free agency to round things out and try to compete for the playoffs while continuing to develop.
User avatar
Robot Rock
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,269
And1: 480
Joined: Jan 21, 2013
Location: The 704
       

Re: People don't talk enough about how awful the Hornets are 

Post#162 » by Robot Rock » Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:33 pm

Rich4114 wrote:I'd still take our situation over several other franchises situations, like the Knicks or Wizards. The Cavs situation looks pretty bleak as well. So does Minnesota, despite having KAT. Those teams you could argue, are in worse positions than the Hornets and more poorly run.


No shock here, but I wouldn't argue that for a second. There are G-League teams that are in better positions than the Hornets (and with better players, too). EDIT: well, I take that back.

I'd say the Rio Grande Valley Vipers are in a better position. Anyway, yeah, these guys are a year or two away from being good enough to be a dumpster fire. Right now they're more of a flaming bag of crap that someone left on the doorstep of a house whose inhabitants have been out of town for a week.
LofJ
General Manager
Posts: 8,379
And1: 5,486
Joined: Mar 29, 2014
   

Re: People don't talk enough about how awful the Hornets are 

Post#163 » by LofJ » Tue Jul 23, 2019 7:49 pm

Maybe MJ initiated the rebuild so he could afford to sign Zion to Jordan Brand?

It's too bad he's playing in **** New Orleans though.
Image
Vanderbilt_Grad
Analyst
Posts: 3,436
And1: 1,228
Joined: Sep 22, 2001
Location: Charlotte, NC

Re: People don't talk enough about how awful the Hornets are 

Post#164 » by Vanderbilt_Grad » Tue Jul 23, 2019 9:18 pm

Time for some of my negativity.

I don't mind that the Hornets didn't use the Dwight trade exception. I'm OK that they haven't used the mid-level. I'm not concerned that they haven't traded MKG, Marv, or Nic yet.... But I'm pretty annoyed that they haven't done ANY of those things. I was really hoping to see a bit of movement this summer, but now it seems like mid-season trades if any and maybe a minor signing before camp.

I was also looking for trades involving MKG or Marv ... and it's not easy. Many teams don't have similar contracts anymore. Guys are signed for huge star deals or much cheaper ones. Beyond bad drafts and the Nic deal, these two contracts went the opposite direction as the rest of the league ended up going. When talking about why the Hornets have been bad, contract management pre-Mitch has been almost as bad as their drafting.
Hope is free.
Rich4114
Head Coach
Posts: 6,823
And1: 631
Joined: Mar 11, 2004
Location: PA
   

Re: People don't talk enough about how awful the Hornets are 

Post#165 » by Rich4114 » Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:18 pm

Vanderbilt_Grad wrote:Time for some of my negativity.

I don't mind that the Hornets didn't use the Dwight trade exception. I'm OK that they haven't used the mid-level. I'm not concerned that they haven't traded MKG, Marv, or Nic yet.... But I'm pretty annoyed that they haven't done ANY of those things. I was really hoping to see a bit of movement this summer, but now it seems like mid-season trades if any and maybe a minor signing before camp.

I was also looking for trades involving MKG or Marv ... and it's not easy. Many teams don't have similar contracts anymore. Guys are signed for huge star deals or much cheaper ones. Beyond bad drafts and the Nic deal, these two contracts went the opposite direction as the rest of the league ended up going. When talking about why the Hornets have been bad, contract management pre-Mitch has been almost as bad as their drafting.


Yes, it is pretty disappointing that we have basically the exact same team as last year and the year before minus Kemba and Lamb. But our recent history with trades has included kicking the can down the road and getting stuck with equally as bad contracts but for longer. I'd rather they just let them drop off at this point since we won't need to move anyone for an improved roster this season. They should only be making trades if it's going to impact us positively in another year or two (or three).
hotrod
Starter
Posts: 2,403
And1: 90
Joined: Oct 01, 2003
Location: Charlotte, NC

Re: People don't talk enough about how awful the Hornets are 

Post#166 » by hotrod » Fri Jul 26, 2019 8:21 pm

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/7/23/20703286/nba-young-core-rankings

I think the title of this thread is completely inaccurate. I have listened to at least 4 podcasts that mentioned how bad the Hornets are and even one said they are the worst team in sports. To be a capped team projected to finish at the bottom of the league is pathetic. The above ranks the best young cores in the league. Enjoy. :D
NCHeels2008
RealGM
Posts: 10,943
And1: 1,365
Joined: Aug 24, 2005

Re: People don't talk enough about how awful the Hornets are 

Post#167 » by NCHeels2008 » Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:39 pm

LofJ wrote:It annoys me how ignorant folks are about how quickly North Carolina is changing. NC is going to be one of the richest, most populated states in the country in the not too distant future. Nevada and Missouri wish they could change places with North Carolina.

The NBA wants to have a team in North Carolina.
It's why Charlotte was rewarded with an expansion franchise after the mess with Shinn. Silver and the other owners would be overjoyed if the Hornets got their act together. MJ is sacrificing a lot of money putting out such a poor product. And that means by extension the other owners are also missing out on money.


ehh I'd leave Nevada out of this, Charlotte is bigger but not sure it's a better sports market than Las Vegas (assuming if it stays in Charlotte you gotta keep MJ as owner)
freethedevil
Veteran
Posts: 2,698
And1: 1,516
Joined: Dec 09, 2018
         

Re: People don't talk enough about how awful the Hornets are 

Post#168 » by freethedevil » Sun Jul 28, 2019 5:11 pm

KembaWalker wrote:
LofJ wrote:Kemba was interviewed by ESPN and he said that he was "heartbroken" that the Hornets didn't make him a better offer.

The city of Charlotte and the Hornets fanbase deserve an explanation from Michael Jordan himself if he expects people to continue to support him financially.


Cause Kemba Walker isn't a max level player? What other explanation is needed...

I don't know if we're at the part where people can be objective about Kemba yet or everyone is still super emotional but am I the only one that was getting tired of Kemba being an awful closer? I got pretty tired this season of Kemba throwing away games at the end, failing to even get shots off and crying to the ref. All the close games we lost? The montages of chokes that people were posting all seaso. That was Kemba's job...more than the point scoring. I think MJ understands that more than anyone.

Is this how a 38 million a year player executes when the game is on the line? Eh..
https://streamable.com/p0acm

Again I am not saying Kemba was anything but an amazing player for us and that I appreciate everything he did and his improvements over the years but I don't necessarily disagree with the front office or Kemba that both sides need a new direction.

The problem isn't that you let him leave, it's that you let him leave for nothing. And no, you don't just wait around for offers, you put him on the block and see what comes.
KembaWalker
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,933
And1: 727
Joined: Dec 22, 2011
   

Re: People don't talk enough about how awful the Hornets are 

Post#169 » by KembaWalker » Sun Jul 28, 2019 8:26 pm

freethedevil wrote:
KembaWalker wrote:
LofJ wrote:Kemba was interviewed by ESPN and he said that he was "heartbroken" that the Hornets didn't make him a better offer.

The city of Charlotte and the Hornets fanbase deserve an explanation from Michael Jordan himself if he expects people to continue to support him financially.


Cause Kemba Walker isn't a max level player? What other explanation is needed...

I don't know if we're at the part where people can be objective about Kemba yet or everyone is still super emotional but am I the only one that was getting tired of Kemba being an awful closer? I got pretty tired this season of Kemba throwing away games at the end, failing to even get shots off and crying to the ref. All the close games we lost? The montages of chokes that people were posting all seaso. That was Kemba's job...more than the point scoring. I think MJ understands that more than anyone.

Is this how a 38 million a year player executes when the game is on the line? Eh..
https://streamable.com/p0acm

Again I am not saying Kemba was anything but an amazing player for us and that I appreciate everything he did and his improvements over the years but I don't necessarily disagree with the front office or Kemba that both sides need a new direction.

The problem isn't that you let him leave, it's that you let him leave for nothing. And no, you don't just wait around for offers, you put him on the block and see what comes.


they didn't let him leave for nothing, they got Terry Rozier
Image
User avatar
yosemiteben
Forum Mod - Hornets
Forum Mod - Hornets
Posts: 15,382
And1: 6,852
Joined: Mar 20, 2013
   

Re: People don't talk enough about how awful the Hornets are 

Post#170 » by yosemiteben » Sun Jul 28, 2019 8:31 pm

KembaWalker wrote:they didn't let him leave for nothing, they got Terry Rozier

They had to first decide they were ok letting him leave for nothing.
KembaWalker
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,933
And1: 727
Joined: Dec 22, 2011
   

Re: People don't talk enough about how awful the Hornets are 

Post#171 » by KembaWalker » Sun Jul 28, 2019 8:34 pm

yosemiteben wrote:
KembaWalker wrote:they didn't let him leave for nothing, they got Terry Rozier

They had to first decide they were ok letting him leave for nothing.


kind of depends how far in advance you really think these things are decided on and worked out
Image
User avatar
yosemiteben
Forum Mod - Hornets
Forum Mod - Hornets
Posts: 15,382
And1: 6,852
Joined: Mar 20, 2013
   

Re: People don't talk enough about how awful the Hornets are 

Post#172 » by yosemiteben » Sun Jul 28, 2019 11:33 pm

KembaWalker wrote:
yosemiteben wrote:
KembaWalker wrote:they didn't let him leave for nothing, they got Terry Rozier

They had to first decide they were ok letting him leave for nothing.


kind of depends how far in advance you really think these things are decided on and worked out

I mean not really, a S&T happens when you have lost control over a player's destination and only makes sense if it helps the team where the player wants to go.
KembaWalker
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,933
And1: 727
Joined: Dec 22, 2011
   

Re: People don't talk enough about how awful the Hornets are 

Post#173 » by KembaWalker » Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:13 am

yosemiteben wrote:
KembaWalker wrote:
yosemiteben wrote:They had to first decide they were ok letting him leave for nothing.


kind of depends how far in advance you really think these things are decided on and worked out

I mean not really, a S&T happens when you have lost control over a player's destination and only makes sense if it helps the team where the player wants to go.


not sure what that has to do with what I said but ok

like, I don't know what you people are thinking like you wouldnt have been completely seething with anger way worse than now if we had traded Kemba at the trade deadline when were 1 game under .500 and 7th seed in the playoffs with the All Star game coming here. Yeah we probably had some mediocre trade offers coming in that the front office looked at, they probably came to the conclusion that they could get a decent enough return in a sign and trade like Rozier and still go for the playoffs. Its not that big of a deal, and like I said, ya'll would have been completely irate and we would be getting trashed even worse if we had traded Kemba in that situation. I would love to have seen the reactions if we had traded Kemba for the scraps he would have gotten us as a rental when we were the 7 seed
Image
User avatar
amcoolio
Hornets Forum John Hancock
Posts: 11,148
And1: 3,009
Joined: Jun 14, 2004
Location: Servant to lord Bargnani
   

Re: People don't talk enough about how awful the Hornets are 

Post#174 » by amcoolio » Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:47 am

I love Kemba but lets be honest, he was super unclutch and not on Lillard's level. Swap Kemba and Lillard and the Hornets never miss the playoffs.
Image
Braggins
General Manager
Posts: 9,752
And1: 4,039
Joined: Jan 05, 2014

Re: People don't talk enough about how awful the Hornets are 

Post#175 » by Braggins » Mon Jul 29, 2019 1:03 am

Kemba was 2nd in the league in clutch points last season.
User avatar
JDuaneWayne
Junior
Posts: 494
And1: 106
Joined: Mar 16, 2010

Re: People don't talk enough about how awful the Hornets are 

Post#176 » by JDuaneWayne » Mon Jul 29, 2019 3:53 am

Braggins wrote:Kemba was 2nd in the league in clutch points last season.


Weren’t those stats based inside the last 3 minutes or something? Stats are great but the eye test is another thing, he didn’t hit game winners. Granted we had no one else to step up and share the load.
Braggins
General Manager
Posts: 9,752
And1: 4,039
Joined: Jan 05, 2014

Re: People don't talk enough about how awful the Hornets are 

Post#177 » by Braggins » Mon Jul 29, 2019 4:55 am

JDuaneWayne wrote:
Braggins wrote:Kemba was 2nd in the league in clutch points last season.


Weren’t those stats based inside the last 3 minutes or something? Stats are great but the eye test is another thing, he didn’t hit game winners. Granted we had no one else to step up and share the load.

I'm not sure what the exact criteria for clutch stats are. Its either last 3 or 5 minutes and might also be when the score is within 5 points or less.

He was also 3rd in 4th quarter scoring behind Lebron and Harden at 8.0 ppg on 47/42/84 shooting splits.

I'm sure his stats on final shots the last couple seasons were terrible, but those shots are really low % in general and its not like it was hard to defend the Hornets on last second shots the last couple years when pretty much everyone except Kemba would be running away from the ball on the last few plays of every close game.
User avatar
yosemiteben
Forum Mod - Hornets
Forum Mod - Hornets
Posts: 15,382
And1: 6,852
Joined: Mar 20, 2013
   

Re: People don't talk enough about how awful the Hornets are 

Post#178 » by yosemiteben » Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:05 pm

KembaWalker wrote:
yosemiteben wrote:
KembaWalker wrote:
kind of depends how far in advance you really think these things are decided on and worked out

I mean not really, a S&T happens when you have lost control over a player's destination and only makes sense if it helps the team where the player wants to go.


not sure what that has to do with what I said but ok

I was saying the S&T wasn't worked out in advance before Kemba told us he was going elsewhere.

KembaWalker wrote:like, I don't know what you people are thinking like you wouldnt have been completely seething with anger way worse than now if we had traded Kemba at the trade deadline when were 1 game under .500 and 7th seed in the playoffs with the All Star game coming here.

I would have been annoyed, but I would have understood the strategy. I'm 10X more annoyed that we held on to him but weren't committed to retaining him. Wtf was the point of that?
LofJ
General Manager
Posts: 8,379
And1: 5,486
Joined: Mar 29, 2014
   

Re: People don't talk enough about how awful the Hornets are 

Post#179 » by LofJ » Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:50 pm

Mitch wanted to rebuild, but he couldn't convince MJ to trade Kemba. I'm almost positive that's what happened.

Which is why MJ is in the bottom 5 when it comes to NBA owners.
Image
hotrod
Starter
Posts: 2,403
And1: 90
Joined: Oct 01, 2003
Location: Charlotte, NC

Re: People don't talk enough about how awful the Hornets are 

Post#180 » by hotrod » Mon Jul 29, 2019 6:10 pm

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2846910-nba-offseason-report-cards-for-every-team

Offseason report cards. Guess which team received an “F”?

Return to Charlotte Hornets