People don't talk enough about how awful the Hornets are

[yosemiteben]

Kupchak did move Kemba, for Rozier.

At any other time in the last three years you would have vomited on that trade. Let's not pretend like that was anywhere close to decent value.

And you can't blame Kupchak for deciding on Rozier now when you have no proof of Mitch turning down any offers for Kemba.

I can't criticize a GM for not maximizing his asset? I mean...isn't that his job? If not maxing Kemba was even a possibility, this was a **** stupid way to handle things.

Cite an offer for Kemba that Mitch failed to maximize. You have absolutely zero evidence of an offer.

Remember the last two deadlines where we were trying to trade everyone but Kemba? We clearly weren't trying to move Kemba.

And I don't need specific offers to be upset about poor roster management. You can't tell me that we couldn't have done better than Terry Rozier on a $56M deal if we traded Kemba last summer or at the deadline.

[MasterIchiro]

At any other time in the last three years you would have vomited on that trade. Let's not pretend like that was anywhere close to decent value.


I can't criticize a GM for not maximizing his asset? I mean...isn't that his job? If not maxing Kemba was even a possibility, this was a **** stupid way to handle things.

Cite an offer for Kemba that Mitch failed to maximize. You have absolutely zero evidence of an offer.

Remember the last two deadlines where we were trying to trade everyone but Kemba? We clearly weren't trying to move Kemba.

And I don't need specific offers to be upset about poor roster management. You can't tell me that we couldn't have done better than Terry Rozier on a $56M deal if we traded Kemba last summer or at the deadline.

Yes you do need to cite an offer to prove Mitch turned down a superior choice or that Mitch had a choice at all.

[MasterIchiro]

Also Ben, cite an example of you feeling upset about roster management when Cho was here. I don't recall a single instance of you feeling upset about a single move Cho made. You have a ring of hearts around MKG. Still. I question your credibility in assessments of GM's. I think you're bandwagoning in the wake of fan suffering over Kemba. You do realize we've been suffering since Cho drafted MKG, right? Hate to burst your little bubble world there.

[LofJ]

Cho should have been fired the day after the 2016 draft. He held a damn press conference while the draft was still happening. I was dumbfounded then and I still am now.

[MasterIchiro]

Cho should have been fired the day after the 2016 draft. He held a damn press conference while the draft was still happening. I was dumbfounded then and I still am now.

Well the mods here laid down a red carpet for Cho time and time again spanning years of mismanagement. Now they're all rough and tough on Mitch Kupchak, the guy who drafted D Russell, a gem for the Golden State Warriors dynasty, probably the best run organization in the game. Kupchak also grabbed Julius Randle. And he found rotation players in the second round. MKG was a #2 overall pick and he's a fringe rotation player on a rebuilding team and it's not like he's old. Under Cho they traded up for Biz in the lotto and he's not even a rotation player on a rebuild team. This rebellion against Mitch Kupchak is outright fraudulent.

[MasterIchiro]

Matchups I will be watching with intrigue...

Rozier vs. Sexton
Rozier vs. Smith Jr
Rozier vs. Fultz

Scary Terry is gonna run roughshod all over those tank commanders. And Mitch isn't so panicked he can't maximize value from pick 14-15 vs. pick 5. He's gonna bareback it.

[MasterIchiro]

I apologize in advance if I offend people. The truth stings some time in Buzz City

[BigSlam]

Cho should have been fired the day after the 2016 draft. He held a damn press conference while the draft was still happening. I was dumbfounded then and I still am now.

Oh man, I forgot about that - good memory!!

That really was something else. So bizarre.


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[JDuaneWayne]

Cite an offer for Kemba that Mitch failed to maximize. You have absolutely zero evidence of an offer.

Remember the last two deadlines where we were trying to trade everyone but Kemba? We clearly weren't trying to move Kemba.

And I don't need specific offers to be upset about poor roster management. You can't tell me that we couldn't have done better than Terry Rozier on a $56M deal if we traded Kemba last summer or at the deadline.

Yes you do need to cite an offer to prove Mitch turned down a superior choice or that Mitch had a choice at all.

C’mon man it’s not like that is EVER going to be public knowledge. We botched it, everyone can see that. Now I’m not saying Rozier might not be or become a good/great player but we overpaid. I understand WHY we overpaid but that doesn’t change the facts. You are in the love dome for Mitch and his results so far are iffy at best.

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

And I don't need specific offers to be upset about poor roster management. You can't tell me that we couldn't have done better than Terry Rozier on a $56M deal if we traded Kemba last summer or at the deadline.

I feel like I can totally tell you that. We have no way to really know what could have been in play, and the hypothetical stuff here on this board was probably wildly optimistic.

[yosemiteben]

Yes you do need to cite an offer to prove Mitch turned down a superior choice or that Mitch had a choice at all.

I disagree. I don't think a condition to being critical of the FO is having actual information about offers made to the FO, especially when our FO does everything they can to specifically prevent that information from getting out.

Since becoming CLT's GM, Kupchak's only positive IMO has been his drafting, and even with that we are really only talking about drafting Graham since I would have been totally happy with the two guys clearly mocked to us at 11 (Bridges and SGA). Conversely, he has also done the following:

(1) added to our $ problems in how we moved Dwight (something that over time has looked increasingly to me like a very stupid decision)
(2) made no moves last summer (note that upon hiring Kupchak's highest priority should have been figuring out WTF we were going to do with Kemba)
(3) made no moves at a trade deadline when it was our last opportunity to make a choice on strategy before we had assets walk out the door
(4) refused to retain Kemba for market value, instead being forced into a S&T for Rozier who realistically is an overpaid project that we never would have traded Kemba for in any other context
(5) let Lamb walk for no value
(6) not signed a single meaningful FA
(7) not given any sense of a coherent strategy for our path forward

And let's talk about Kemba - it appears that you are choosing to treat the Rozier S&T as a positive for Mitch. The reality is that the only reason that was even an option is because Kemba wanted to go to BOS. Once Kemba realized he wasn't staying, Mitch lost all control over any ability to get value for Kemba. We were fortunate that Kemba wanted to go somewhere that had an asset at PG that we could S&T for, but that was entirely coincidental, Mitch did not have any say in that and we very easily could have been SOL had Kemba wanted to go somewhere else with cap space.

I don't think we specifically wanted Rozier, I think he was the only viable option that happened to be available once Kemba made his decision.

Also Ben, cite an example of you feeling upset about roster management when Cho was here.

Even if I loved every move Cho made and have his face tattooed on my arm, that does not preclude me from expressing this concern about Kupchak. We have banned posters in the past for scoreboarding / derailing conversations to harp on prior unrelated arguments or criticizing posters for opinions expressed years ago. No one is disqualified from expressing a viewpoint about this team because of some prior viewpoint, regardless of how proximately related the viewpoints are.

So please permanently stop doing that.

[JDuaneWayne]

Agree with all of the above.

In hindsight had we had a more clear path we could have SGA right now instead of two players who arguably play the same position.

It’s a train wreck in the FO, our coach see Bridges as a PF, so we go out and draft a (wait for it)... PF!!!

The Howard trade is honestly inexcusable. It was dumb then and dumber now, obvious move to save MJ some cash and net two 2nd round picks and pave the way for Durant and Kyrie in BKN.

How you people defend this is beyond me, part is on Cho but not all.

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

The Howard trade is an interesting point - but I consider the following
1. It's not clear that Dwight was willing to be bought out by Charlotte. Once he was traded it was a clear FU move back at the Hornets.
2. OTOH it does seem clear that there was a lot of pressure, probably from Kemba's camp based on what we've heard, to get rid of Dwight. This might have been a move made to try to keep Kemba happy.
3. The money saved last year was used to bring in Tony Parker, in an attempt to both give Kemba a real backup and to give Borrego someone to help him implement his system.

Charlotte also showed up in all sorts of trade rumors last season. It was clear the Mitch was being active ... we've also been told that it was his refusal to go with lighter protection on this year's pick that lead to the collapse of talks with Memphis to get Gasol here. Whatever else he is doing, Mitch seems hyper focused on keeping existing lottery picks.

[Rays Pompadour]

Good points. The Hornets made several moves to prepare for Kemba's summer.

I think once Kemba qualified for super max it was all over. Charlotte was poised to max at the normal rate, I think. But super max money just wasn't going to happen. And when negotiations began and Charlotte started on the low end, Kemba walked away. End of story.

Meanwhile, Mitch was left to spin the deal and he's simply not a politician.

[yosemiteben]

My real problem is the lack of strategy. I have always been and continue to be anti-tank, but if we were going to tank, the time to do it was either last summer or the summer before, not now. Whether you were pro-tank or not, our moves over the last 14 months don't make any sense.

Why are we making moves to keep Kemba happy if we aren't committed to keeping him?

Why on earth would we even consider a trade for Gasol if we are wanting to do a hard reset?

I need some coherent framework for what we are trying to accomplish.

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

My real problem is the lack of strategy.

Why are we making moves to keep Kemba happy if we aren't committed to keeping him?

My perception is that the FO actually has a strategy for the first time in ages.

They were willing to make trades for Kemba and pay him ... but only so much. If Kemba's market was too high or the trades called for too high a price they weren't going to get done. Mitch was willing to walk away from anything he didn't like value wise and do the best he could after that.

This wasn't about keeping Kemba or tanking ... it was about recovering from a huge mess as best he could.

[Robot Rock]

Thread rebrand - Why people don't hate the Hornets enough - The Robot Rock Thread

I love it.

But seriously, where’s the direction the last two years? I don’t see a plan. It’s like we made moves to justify FO guys getting their checks without regard for fit. Thank God the Gasol deal didn’t happen.

[yosemiteben]

This wasn't about keeping Kemba or tanking ... it was about recovering from a huge mess as best he could.

I guess my view is those were the only two real options given our cap situation. We aren't going to be and shouldn't try to be competitive without Kemba.

And it's not like we've done anything to help with our cap problem. Those contacts are expiring regardless, the problem was going to solve itself, it's just that now we don't really have any assets to put to use in the interim and we also have a black eye from how we treated Kemba.

[Robot Rock]

I’d like to know what the “they know what they have to do” that kemba was referring to during the season was, with regard to him staying. Because looking back on it i don’t think he ever intended to re-sign.

[Rays Pompadour]

Well, not since he qualified for super max. I believe he wanted to stay and the Hornets wanted him to stay. But he priced himself out.

Benjamins will almost always outweigh strategy.