ImageImage

Would Graham have broken out if Kemba stayed?

Moderators: fatlever, yosemiteben, Diop, BigSlam, JDR720

?

Yes
3
12%
No
22
88%
Unsure
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 25

User avatar
JDR720
Forum Mod - Hornets
Forum Mod - Hornets
Posts: 33,555
And1: 27,395
Joined: Jul 09, 2013
     

Would Graham have broken out if Kemba stayed? 

Post#1 » by JDR720 » Mon Nov 25, 2019 11:23 pm

Simple question. Graham has been our best player this season, so would've he been able to show his improvement with Kemba still on the team?
User avatar
KEMBAtheMETEOR
RealGM
Posts: 37,597
And1: 7,169
Joined: Feb 05, 2012
Location: The 704
   

Re: Would Graham have broken out if Kemba stayed? 

Post#2 » by KEMBAtheMETEOR » Mon Nov 25, 2019 11:49 pm

not to this extent. He would've obviously improved but would not have received this opportunity unless Kemba got hurt. Honestly it's impossible to say, since absolutely nobody saw this coming. He was not a scorer last year at all.
formerly BizGilwalker
DY_nasty
Head Coach
Posts: 6,794
And1: 2,562
Joined: Apr 14, 2010

Re: Would Graham have broken out if Kemba stayed? 

Post#3 » by DY_nasty » Tue Nov 26, 2019 12:10 am

probably

the worst part about last year for a lot of the guys was the inconsistency... playing behind tony parker, he had to be available, able to play SG, and able to fit into whatever defensive wishlist borrego had

things are more stable now and even though he's being asked to do more, he's doing great. last year he did fantastic at distributing and protecting the ball. this year he's scoring with confidence and taking on more pressure than anyone else as a ballhandler

he's a good player. if he wasn't third pg, he'd have found a way to contribute is all im saying i guess
User avatar
MasterIchiro
RealGM
Posts: 14,049
And1: 3,348
Joined: Jan 18, 2013
Location: Intertubes
       

Re: Would Graham have broken out if Kemba stayed? 

Post#4 » by MasterIchiro » Tue Nov 26, 2019 12:16 am

In a perfect world I guess we imagine Kemba still here and Graham breakout. They'd get toasted playing defense being so undersized. Terry works as a defender with Malik or Devonté.
It has been written...

Image
Chapelchilla
Senior
Posts: 532
And1: 222
Joined: Aug 04, 2014
         

Re: Would Graham have broken out if Kemba stayed? 

Post#5 » by Chapelchilla » Tue Nov 26, 2019 4:15 pm

No way, Kembas gravity did not allow for another ball handling PG to get a full run. Ex- why Jeremy Lin left.
User avatar
Liver_Pooty
RealGM
Posts: 34,219
And1: 10,084
Joined: Dec 29, 2008
Location: Asheville, NC
   

Re: Would Graham have broken out if Kemba stayed? 

Post#6 » by Liver_Pooty » Tue Nov 26, 2019 4:45 pm

Chapelchilla wrote:No way, Kembas gravity did not allow for another ball handling PG to get a full run. Ex- why Jeremy Lin left.


Lin left to start and get paid
Balllin wrote:Zion Williamson is 6-5, with a 6-10 wingspan. I see him as a slightly better Kenneth Faried.
User avatar
316Hornets
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,576
And1: 2,364
Joined: Jun 26, 2015
Location: Milky Way
   

Re: Would Graham have broken out if Kemba stayed? 

Post#7 » by 316Hornets » Tue Nov 26, 2019 8:34 pm

I'm not sure if you can play Kemba and Graham on the court for long periods of time due to their defensive inefficiencies. So, Graham would probably be reserved to backup duties playing a lot less minutes. My opinion is no, he would have not broken out. Improved for sure, just wouldn't have the opportunity to shine.
Who at 3? My board - Ratings
1 Lamelo 100
2 Edwards 99
3 Hayes 97
4 Wiseman 97
5 Okongwu 96
Chapelchilla
Senior
Posts: 532
And1: 222
Joined: Aug 04, 2014
         

Re: Would Graham have broken out if Kemba stayed? 

Post#8 » by Chapelchilla » Tue Nov 26, 2019 10:43 pm

Liver_Pooty wrote:
Chapelchilla wrote:No way, Kembas gravity did not allow for another ball handling PG to get a full run. Ex- why Jeremy Lin left.


Lin left to start and get paid


That's exactly what I mean. Kemba staying here would have mean't that Graham never got the minutes or the ball enough to break out. He would have had to leave like Lin to get a starting role or $.
User avatar
BigSlam
Forum Mod - Hornets
Forum Mod - Hornets
Posts: 45,037
And1: 2,808
Joined: Jul 01, 2005

Re: Would Graham have broken out if Kemba stayed? 

Post#9 » by BigSlam » Wed Nov 27, 2019 2:59 pm

Yes.

And I think people grossly underestimate Walker's defense.

We would have still struggled at the SG position if Walker was here this season - because the options are essentially the same this season as they were last - so there is no reason to believe that Graham wouldn't have had his chance as he is next to Rozier.

Last season Walker often played off ball with Bats facilitating.

No way JB wouldn't have played Graham and Walker together as a back court combo as he is now with Graham and Rozier.

He was already doing it with Parker last season - pairing him with Walker.
BBMF'ers
DY_nasty
Head Coach
Posts: 6,794
And1: 2,562
Joined: Apr 14, 2010

Re: Would Graham have broken out if Kemba stayed? 

Post#10 » by DY_nasty » Wed Nov 27, 2019 5:33 pm

Chapelchilla wrote:
Liver_Pooty wrote:
Chapelchilla wrote:No way, Kembas gravity did not allow for another ball handling PG to get a full run. Ex- why Jeremy Lin left.


Lin left to start and get paid


That's exactly what I mean. Kemba staying here would have mean't that Graham never got the minutes or the ball enough to break out. He would have had to leave like Lin to get a starting role or $.

Lin left because we had to choose between paying him or Marvin - the answer was Marvin lol

Kemba's done fine with capable guards next to him. Even Mo Williams...

Guys were actively running from the ball all last year. The only person who wasn't was Tony Parker. And ironically, outside of Graham and Monk, they still are in crunch time. Kemba wasn't drowning out good ballhandlers. We simply didn't have any.
Braggins
RealGM
Posts: 10,440
And1: 4,930
Joined: Jan 05, 2014

Re: Would Graham have broken out if Kemba stayed? 

Post#11 » by Braggins » Wed Nov 27, 2019 7:41 pm

I was skeptical of Graham last season. He showed flashes, but most of the time just didn't really do enough to get me that excited and he had one of the worst RPMs in the league as a 23 year old. Despite this, I still felt like he was going to be someone who stayed on a roster for a long time, but somewhere in the range of good 3rd PG to mediocre 2nd PG. I'm not sure if he can sustain what hes been doing this season, but I do think his ceiling is considerably higher than I did before. I think he'll at least be a solid backup and could potentially top out as a high end backup or low end starter.

I still think he would have broken out with Kemba here.

Also, I think if Kemba and Lamb stayed this would easily be a playoff team thats one key free agent signing or trade away from potentially making the 2nd round. Kupchak has done a solid job, with the exception of letting Kemba go (but I think that had more to do with MJ hamstringing him), and Borrego still seems like a good coach to me.

Its too bad so many mistakes were made in the pre-Kupchak era that forced the new regime into a cleanup situation when Kemba was entering free agency. This team easily could have been in a position to actually make some playoff runs right now if the last two years didn't have to be spent cleaning up a mess and could have been about focusing on getting the team over the hump.
User avatar
Diop
Forum Mod - Hornets
Forum Mod - Hornets
Posts: 31,447
And1: 12,389
Joined: Jul 24, 2004
Location: House of Diop
 

Re: Would Graham have broken out if Kemba stayed? 

Post#12 » by Diop » Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:07 pm

the articles mentioned how they changed Devonte's workouts after Kemba signed with Boston to be more aggressive and a scorer.

Devonte said he baulked at first as he didn't think it suited him, but stuck with it until it started feeling comfortable.

Kemba staying would have at least delayed his breakout
Image
User avatar
JDR720
Forum Mod - Hornets
Forum Mod - Hornets
Posts: 33,555
And1: 27,395
Joined: Jul 09, 2013
     

Re: Would Graham have broken out if Kemba stayed? 

Post#13 » by JDR720 » Thu Nov 28, 2019 2:34 am

The ironic and sad thing is, Graham this season is almost exactly what we we're trying to find to pair with Kemba. A playmaker/2nd scorer to help take the load off.
Hornet Mania
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,796
And1: 4,111
Joined: Jul 05, 2014
Location: Dornbirn, Austria
     

Re: Would Graham have broken out if Kemba stayed? 

Post#14 » by Hornet Mania » Thu Nov 28, 2019 3:41 pm

Kemba leaving was probably for the best for several of our young guys. Graham is the obvious choice, but I think it helped Monk too. Losing a player like Kemba who played big minutes and bailed us out of bad possessions forced JB to lean on Graham/Monk a lot more than he would have if the team could still just throw it to the captain. The more possessions those two get to run the show without Kemba as a crutch the better they will become.

It also seems like the front office tacitly admitted before the season this was not a year where we would make a playoff push once Kemba left. As a result that likely changed the entire approach toward building a rotation this season. We made zero effort to add any vets, even minimum salary vets, this offseason. If Kemba stayed I would not be surprised if Kupchak tried to grab a veteran PG as backup . Giving Graham big minutes this year was a result of desperation and a forced youth movement as much as it was a master development plan.
User avatar
Liver_Pooty
RealGM
Posts: 34,219
And1: 10,084
Joined: Dec 29, 2008
Location: Asheville, NC
   

Re: Would Graham have broken out if Kemba stayed? 

Post#15 » by Liver_Pooty » Sun Aug 2, 2020 8:40 pm

Wrong thread as I couldn't find the kemba thread, but we may have dodged a bullet not resigning Kemba. His knee issues are very concerning
Balllin wrote:Zion Williamson is 6-5, with a 6-10 wingspan. I see him as a slightly better Kenneth Faried.
User avatar
316Hornets
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,576
And1: 2,364
Joined: Jun 26, 2015
Location: Milky Way
   

Re: Would Graham have broken out if Kemba stayed? 

Post#16 » by 316Hornets » Sun Aug 2, 2020 8:45 pm

Liver_Pooty wrote:Wrong thread as I couldn't find the kemba thread, but we may have dodged a bullet not resigning Kemba. His knee issues are very concerning


It was a good move for both sides. Kemba has been able to take a backseat this year to Tatum and that will help extend his career. Not happy he chose the Celtics because the organization is blah, but Kemba could theoretically play out his Celtics contract and come back and play for us a couple years.
Who at 3? My board - Ratings
1 Lamelo 100
2 Edwards 99
3 Hayes 97
4 Wiseman 97
5 Okongwu 96
User avatar
Diop
Forum Mod - Hornets
Forum Mod - Hornets
Posts: 31,447
And1: 12,389
Joined: Jul 24, 2004
Location: House of Diop
 

Re: Would Graham have broken out if Kemba stayed? 

Post#17 » by Diop » Sun Aug 2, 2020 10:56 pm

Liver_Pooty wrote:Wrong thread as I couldn't find the kemba thread, but we may have dodged a bullet not resigning Kemba. His knee issues are very concerning

I think I mentioned this being very possible when we were discussing his next contract. He’s been a warrior and pushed his body a lot
Image

Return to Charlotte Hornets