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KGdaBom wrote:

driveandkick wrote:

DY_nasty wrote:After Zion, Ja, and RJ - that draft went off a cliff

Wiseman goes top 5 easily. I can't say that about any of these guards or wings though.

I'm 99.9% sure if there were a redraft tomorrow all 30 NBA GM's would take PJ Washington over James Wiseman.

IMO you would be so wrong. Washington had a good season and is a good player, but he's not a 7'1" athletic center with 7'6" wingspan. I believe a strong majority of the GMs would draft Wiseman over Washington. We will never know, but since you were throwing an opinion out there I figure I might as well throw mine out as well.

I'm not arguing that Wiseman wouldn't have been a higher pick last year, because he probably would have. But if for whatever reason you were to combine the 2019 class and the 2020 class and draft them all this year with what we already know about the 2019 players, I have very little doubts that Washington goes ahead of Wiseman. PJ is simply the perfect forward/big for the modern NBA. 6'8" with like a 7'2" wingspan, shot 37.5% from deep last year and it was probably higher before he had a hand injury but I would have to double check on that. PJ is a perfect PF, but can also play some SF and smallball C pending on the lineups. We know he's versatile, athletic, can shoot, defend multiple positions, etc. Sure he's never going to be the go to on a contending team but we're looking at an efficient, versatile 16-20 PPG scorer that can stretch the floor and is at a minimum going to be a league average defender.

I promise you there are a ton of teams that would love to get that type of player in this draft, even in the top 3 probably. Wiseman is just such an unknown, of course he dominated at the high school level but every D1 player ever did that. In his three college games he didn't really do anything that excites me. I didn't see any sort of post moves that will be effective at the next level, anytime he scored it's just because he was taller than the next guy. Meanwhile Okongwu just looks so much more comfortable and had some moves that looked borderline unguardable. I want to make it very clear I don't hate Wiseman as a prospect and I get the appeal, like if we end up with him I'm not going to complain at all. He just has such a long ways to go and he plays a dying position. There's no way Wiseman types are valued even close to the level that PJ types are in today's NBA.

It's important to consider Wiseman's marketing appeal as well. While he may not be the best prospect, if he is in the range and will bring more attention to the franchise, then he may be worth the pick. Just watching this guy handle the ball and pull up is pretty amazing. Plenty of highlight dunks. Definitely wouldn't mind getting a few National televised games. Less marketing appeal with Haliburton or Hayes.

316Hornets wrote:It's important to consider Wiseman's marketing appeal as well. While he may not be the best prospect, if he is in the range and will bring more attention to the franchise, then he may be worth the pick. Just watching this guy handle the ball and pull up is pretty amazing. Plenty of highlight dunks. Definitely wouldn't mind getting a few National televised games. Less marketing appeal with Haliburton or Hayes.

With all due respect that is the absolute last thing we should be concerned about with this pick

316Hornets wrote:It's important to consider Wiseman's marketing appeal as well. While he may not be the best prospect, if he is in the range and will bring more attention to the franchise, then he may be worth the pick. Just watching this guy handle the ball and pull up is pretty amazing. Plenty of highlight dunks. Definitely wouldn't mind getting a few National televised games. Less marketing appeal with Haliburton or Hayes.

Mitch would never draft anyone based on marketing appeal, but even if he did he would draft Lamelo.

driveandkick wrote:

KGdaBom wrote:

driveandkick wrote:I'm 99.9% sure if there were a redraft tomorrow all 30 NBA GM's would take PJ Washington over James Wiseman.

IMO you would be so wrong. Washington had a good season and is a good player, but he's not a 7'1" athletic center with 7'6" wingspan. I believe a strong majority of the GMs would draft Wiseman over Washington. We will never know, but since you were throwing an opinion out there I figure I might as well throw mine out as well.

I'm not arguing that Wiseman wouldn't have been a higher pick last year, because he probably would have. But if for whatever reason you were to combine the 2019 class and the 2020 class and draft them all this year with what we already know about the 2019 players, I have very little doubts that Washington goes ahead of Wiseman. PJ is simply the perfect forward/big for the modern NBA. 6'8" with like a 7'2" wingspan, shot 37.5% from deep last year and it was probably higher before he had a hand injury but I would have to double check on that. PJ is a perfect PF, but can also play some SF and smallball C pending on the lineups. We know he's versatile, athletic, can shoot, defend multiple positions, etc. Sure he's never going to be the go to on a contending team but we're looking at an efficient, versatile 16-20 PPG scorer that can stretch the floor and is at a minimum going to be a league average defender.

I promise you there are a ton of teams that would love to get that type of player in this draft, even in the top 3 probably. Wiseman is just such an unknown, of course he dominated at the high school level but every D1 player ever did that. In his three college games he didn't really do anything that excites me. I didn't see any sort of post moves that will be effective at the next level, anytime he scored it's just because he was taller than the next guy. Meanwhile Okongwu just looks so much more comfortable and had some moves that looked borderline unguardable. I want to make it very clear I don't hate Wiseman as a prospect and I get the appeal, like if we end up with him I'm not going to complain at all. He just has such a long ways to go and he plays a dying position. There's no way Wiseman types are valued even close to the level that PJ types are in today's NBA.

There aren't many 7'1" with 7'6" wingspan, highly athletic and coordinated 247 pound types. PJ will never dominate. Wiseman very likely will. We disagree about where they would go if Washington were added to the draft this year. I agree it is possible that some GMs would prefer Washington. I'm confident more GMs would prefer Wiseman. We will never know.

Liver_Pooty wrote:

316Hornets wrote:It's important to consider Wiseman's marketing appeal as well. While he may not be the best prospect, if he is in the range and will bring more attention to the franchise, then he may be worth the pick. Just watching this guy handle the ball and pull up is pretty amazing. Plenty of highlight dunks. Definitely wouldn't mind getting a few National televised games. Less marketing appeal with Haliburton or Hayes.

Mitch would never draft anyone based on marketing appeal, but even if he did he would draft Lamelo.

If you get the option to draft one of Wiseman or Ball I will be shocked absolutely shocked if you draft Ball. Probably won't happen because at least one of them will likely be gone by pick 3. You need an athletic coordinated longer than everybody else center so much more than a PG with a completely broken shot.

Of course this is just the opinion of a Timberwolves fan who would draft Wiseman even though we already have Towns.

Liver_Pooty wrote:

316Hornets wrote:It's important to consider Wiseman's marketing appeal as well. While he may not be the best prospect, if he is in the range and will bring more attention to the franchise, then he may be worth the pick. Just watching this guy handle the ball and pull up is pretty amazing. Plenty of highlight dunks. Definitely wouldn't mind getting a few National televised games. Less marketing appeal with Haliburton or Hayes.

Mitch would never draft anyone based on marketing appeal, but even if he did he would draft Lamelo.

I keep hearing that Ball is the one with marketing appeal. I guess it's the same way that the Kardashian's have marketing appeal.

KGdaBom wrote:PJ will never dominate. Wiseman very likely will.

Disagree on both counts.

Vanderbilt_Grad wrote:

KGdaBom wrote:PJ will never dominate. Wiseman very likely will.

Disagree on both counts.

I love it when people disagree with me. In 3 years we can look back and see who was right and who was Vanderbilt.
Just kidding it will be fun to look back on this later though. People agreeing is boring.

You are the first person I've heard refer to PJ Washington as a dominant player or even one expected to be dominant in the future.

KGdaBom wrote:

Liver_Pooty wrote:

316Hornets wrote:It's important to consider Wiseman's marketing appeal as well. While he may not be the best prospect, if he is in the range and will bring more attention to the franchise, then he may be worth the pick. Just watching this guy handle the ball and pull up is pretty amazing. Plenty of highlight dunks. Definitely wouldn't mind getting a few National televised games. Less marketing appeal with Haliburton or Hayes.

Mitch would never draft anyone based on marketing appeal, but even if he did he would draft Lamelo.

I keep hearing that Ball is the one with marketing appeal. I guess it's the same way that the Kardashian's have marketing appeal.

Theres sextapes of Ball and rappers/r&b artists?

PerkinsFor3 wrote:

KGdaBom wrote:

Liver_Pooty wrote:
Mitch would never draft anyone based on marketing appeal, but even if he did he would draft Lamelo.

I keep hearing that Ball is the one with marketing appeal. I guess it's the same way that the Kardashian's have marketing appeal.

Theres sextapes of Ball and rappers/r&b artists?

I hope not, but he's famous for the wrong reasons. Having a ridiculously annoying dad and all that crap.

This is the James Wiseman thread.

Let’s keep it that way.


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The more I learn, the more I want Wiseman to be our pick. It's going to come down to if GS drafts him or not. I don't see Minn drafting him. I think GS wants ball handlers but I suspect they're waiting to see if Edwards goes one or not and if he does, do a deal for some other team that loves Ball. That's our most likely best case scenario if we want Wiseman.

Rich4114 wrote:The more I learn, the more I want Wiseman to be our pick.

What have you come across Rich that has you locked in on Wiseman?

On the surface I feel the same way, but I just can’t 100% commit for some reason. I think it really comes down to the pack of college games that has me worried - because I don’t believe that bigs with his skill set are being played out of the league.


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I am completely sour on Edwards and Ball needs so much work that the pick is Wiseman by default. Honestly I'm more intrigued by Okoro, Okongwu, and maybe Avidja since he shot well post-corona restart

BigSlam wrote:

Rich4114 wrote:The more I learn, the more I want Wiseman to be our pick.

What have you come across Rich that has you locked in on Wiseman?

On the surface I feel the same way, but I just can’t 100% commit for some reason. I think it really comes down to the pack of college games that has me worried - because I don’t believe that bigs with his skill set are being played out of the league.


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I don't have a ton of analysis to back this up, but there are a few things that stand out to me and a lot of this is based on the whole picture in terms of who else is available to us. He seems like he can shoot it within range, so he's not one dimensional offensively. He seems to box out really well, which is a fundamental most guys lack now a days... His measurables are great, he seems like an elite rim runner/finisher meaning he is a guy we can lob balls to and if close enough will finish at a high rate. A lot about him looks like Dwight Howard coming out of HS and the unknowns are the same. The difference for me is in the few interviews I've seen him in he sounds more intelligent than the other two. The bonus wildcard is that he did not get a lot of college air time so many will view him as "unknown" or a "risk" much in the way a guy coming right out of high school would be. He's already faced adversity with the college nonsense too. I'm not saying any of this is full of solid substance, but comparing my limited amount of data points on him vs our other options at the top, I like what I'm seeing. Say what you want about personality and the way a guy speaks but most of the best NBA players have the physical skills and are pretty smart. He models himself after David Robinson and looks towards guys like AD and Giannis.

Now check this out if you want, it helped solidify things for me:

His release is not super quick, but the form is fantastic. I think Wiseman will be able to stretch the floor sooner rather than later.

Rich4114 wrote:Now check this out if you want, it helped solidify things for me:

Watch on YouTube

I keep picturing Tae and even Monk lobbing the ball to Wiseman for the alley oop and feeding it to him on the break as he streams up the court and it kinda makes me salivate.


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Where is everyone getting the idea that he can shoot from? I haven’t seen him shoot the ball at all.


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Please don’t say high school tape... because I can show you 30 guys that looked like Kevin Durant or whatever you think Wiseman is in highschool.

Player 1- Noah Vonleh

https://youtu.be/MJ9dxnROuOI

Player 2- Marvin Bagley

https://youtu.be/yjwDQd_6BbY

Player 3- Jonathan Isaac

https://youtu.be/Hi8i66mP7-I

My point not being that these guys are horrible players, but all these guys highlights look incredible and they all look like they are going to be superstars in NBA.

All of them look like they can shoot the ball and will just dominate. Fact is none of them are dominating, Bagley and Isaac are solid, but chances are low that either is a franchise changer.

I haven’t seen anything that says Wiseman is a better shooter than Bagley and Marvin shot a spicy 28 percent so far in his career.



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