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Prospect Thread: James Wiseman

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Re: Prospect Thread: James Wiseman 

Post#221 » by James Gatz » Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:41 pm

Wiseman has never shown the ability to shot even in high school. The above clip used all three of the mid range shots he made in NCAA.

Seems like a good kid though. The more I think about it the less I want a low ceiling big who has never shown the ability to pass the ball and lacks some instincts on the defensive end.
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Re: Prospect Thread: James Wiseman 

Post#222 » by wilson115 » Tue Sep 1, 2020 1:30 am

Says this is coming from a Memphis insider:

“I think that James has a great blend of just sheer size, but he is very agile with his size," the staffer said. "He gets into a low stance pretty easily, he has soft hands and he's got a pretty good feel on things like second-side dribble hand-offs and the ability to make passes. So there's no question to me, I see him as an excellent type of big that can play in a five-out system. Through the trail, you can operate him as a playmaker in different hand-off situations, and I have no question that he can do that.

“And what I think that he does so well, too, is on the other side of the floor. It's not a switch one-through-five thing with him. But with that being said, to me, he's excellent in kinda that drop coverage using his length and his agility and baiting mid-range and being able to get back and clean up the defensive glass, as well as rotating for blocked shots."

Wiseman’s mechanics are going to need some tweaking, though. While the good news is that he shoots the ball straight, the bad news is that he lacks loft and it isn’t quick. The staffer describes this as “catapulting the ball at the rim versus shooting the ball over the rim.” Having a flat shot can lead to streaky results.

In order to maximize his potential, the staffer feels Wiseman will need direction. As a follower at this juncture, he’ll be best off around strong leadership and an organization that can “foster his development at micro levels.” This is part of the reason why the staffer feels Wiseman should’ve stayed at Memphis.

https://www.basketballnews.com/stories/james-wiseman-memphis-2020-nba-draft
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Re: Prospect Thread: James Wiseman 

Post#223 » by Rich4114 » Tue Sep 1, 2020 12:39 pm

I just think the upside with Wiseman is worth the #3 pick given the other options available to us in this draft. I too see him being able to capitalize on many lobs and cutting dunks from the creation of Devonte/Terry/Monk. He seems like he has some possible post moves too. Let's all not forget this guy is like 19 so he won't be a star out of the gate but he has the makings of one and our development system is 10 fold better the last few seasons. He'd be in a great situation in Charlotte.
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Re: Prospect Thread: James Wiseman 

Post#224 » by Braggins » Tue Sep 1, 2020 12:57 pm

JMAC3 wrote:My point not being that these guys are horrible players, but all these guys highlights look incredible and they all look like they are going to be superstars in NBA.

Wiseman seems less reliant on the highlight reel effect to make him look good than Ball/Edwards.
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Re: Prospect Thread: James Wiseman 

Post#225 » by 316Hornets » Tue Sep 1, 2020 2:40 pm

Read on Twitter


Can't recall ever seeing a 7 footer with that great of handle and body control.
Who at 3? My board - Ratings
1 Lamelo 100
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3 Hayes 97
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Re: Prospect Thread: James Wiseman 

Post#226 » by James Gatz » Tue Sep 1, 2020 3:55 pm

I'm just not a believer in seeing one small clip from a pickup game. I really encourage everyone to go back and watch the Oregon game to get a better sense of him as a player. Feel free to DM me if you want a link.
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Re: Prospect Thread: James Wiseman 

Post#227 » by Braggins » Tue Sep 1, 2020 10:00 pm

I watched this cut up of all his minutes (I think) in the game vs Oregon and disagreed with a couple of your takes. I watched it once normally, then a second time on a higher speed to mark some specific plays.



James Gatz wrote:Went through and watched the Oregon game after having a bit of back and forth on this thread. Couple of key takeaways:

Good
- Sets good screens and has excellent catch radius.
- Size is undeniable and led to a block without jumping.
- Straight line speed was impressive for his size.

Mixed
- Showed some touch on his jumper but all three shots were low percentage looks at the start of the shot clock.

Don't have much to add here, or about his offense in general, but Oregon overloaded on him fairly hard to prevent him any easy looks and the Memphis guards seemed pretty bad at getting him the ball, which seems to be backed up by their leader in assists only averaging 4.3 and not having anyone else even average 3 per game. He seemed to finish well when he got it in a good position and got a couple put backs. He got a couple turnovers when they were down at the end of the game where it seemed like he was trying to do too much.

Bad
- Majority of rebounds were uncontested and was outrebounded multiple times with 50/50 balls.

I didn't notice any plays where he got outrebounded on 50-50s. The closest I saw was at 14:46, where he almost gets an offensive rebound while off balance but loses the ball. I guess you could count that one.

- Was switched out to a perimeter player twice and got beat both times.

This seems off. Here are all of his possessions in this video of PnR defense, or where he gets isolated on a ball handler.

Good
1:00 - Gets switched onto the ball momentarily after hedging PnR, denies the drive, and then recovers to his man.
2:14 - Switches onto the ball on a PnR hedge, denies the drive, recovers back to his man as the driver is forced into a tough fade-away, and gets the rebound.
5:53 - Hedges PnR, denies the drive, and gets a good contest when the handler attempts a step back.
6:18 - Switches onto the ball on a PnR, denies the drive, and recovers back to his man.
16:14 - Gets isolated on a ball handler. Gets in his stance and stays with the drive and alters the shot.
17:55 - Hedges the PnR, denies the drive, and recovers to his man.

Mixed
16:51 - Plays multiple screens well. Gets isolated on the ball handler. Gets down in his stance well, but gives the man slightly too much space and gives up a semi-contested 3.
19:51 - Steps up a little too high after switching onto the ball on a PnR and lets the handler get a half step on him. Shows good recovery speed and forces the ball into help and ultimately doesn't get punished. This play would have been more likely to be punished against an NBA PG.

Bad
7:51 - Steps out to hedge the PnR, but the ball handler rejects the screen and beats his man driving the opposite direction. Wiseman hesitates too long before recovering, which forces unnecessary help and allows an open shot at the rim.
8:50 - Hedges a PnR into the left corner, but over helps and stays on the ball too long after the primary defender recovers while his man pops behind the 3pt line. Recovers recklessly after the ball is swung to his man on the pop and gets burned after falling for a shot fake.

- Got bullied in the post more than I expected. Two And1s scored on him.

I didn't see really see him getting bullied at any point in the game.

0:07 - The first and1. More of a positioning mistake. He over-helps when the primary defender has the play pretty well contained and allows his man to get good position on the block and then fouls him after getting in the air falling for a shot fake.
15:12 - Second and1. Hes in help side on the left block and an offensive player splits a weak double team on the right block between two Memphis defenders and Wiseman is left in no mans land and makes a play for the ball. Not really his fault.

- Foul trouble caused him to sit most of first half.
- Had trouble with help rotation.
- Memphis was outscored when he was on the floor by a decent margin.

Saying he had trouble with help rotation isn't entirely untrue, but a bit of an exaggeration imo. His rotations were pretty good overall and had multiple plays where he rotated well and altered shots, but he did make a few mistakes. Heres all the other rotation mistakes I saw that I haven't pointed out already.

9:50 - Gets very slightly out of position while expecting a PnR and the ball is swung to his man. He gives up a shot at the rim despite staying with the man pretty well for not being in perfect position and almost blocking the shot.
10:26 - Slightly out of position. Should have stepped over towards the middle to help stop the drive, assuming the man he was guarding wasn't a 3pt threat (I'm not sure).

This wasn't the full unedited game, so its possible there was something that was cut out that shouldn't have been, but this seemed like it was all of his plays. Its also possible I missed something that was in the video, but I tried to find everything relevant to the things you pointed out.

He didn't get to play a ton of minutes, it was a boring game for him offensively, and he definitely made some mistakes on defense, but I still liked what I saw overall.
I think he shows potential on defense, but he definitely has some things to work on. I think he'll be a lob threat and finisher on offense right away once he gets to play with more competent guards. I wish Memphis did a better job of getting him the ball. There offense seemed pretty stagnant and they didn't run many pick and rolls. There were multiple plays where he had his man sealed with good position, but never got the ball. The few times he did get the ball around the basket he finished pretty effortlessly.
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Re: Prospect Thread: James Wiseman 

Post#228 » by James Gatz » Tue Sep 1, 2020 10:20 pm

Great write up Braggins! More than willing to have someone watch back through and come to a different conclusion. I take more issue with people just watching a few highlight clips.

I'm about to have a birthday dinner with my girlfriend so this will be a little short but a quick reaction to your post:

You bring up one of the times I was referencing getting beat at 16:14. My thought that if a guy projected to go at the end of 2nd round next year is still able to get a shot up, even if he misses it doesn't bode well for Wiseman against guys with NBA burst. He does contest but its after the ball is already in the air if you slow it down. The other PnR where he was on island was against Pritchard where Pritchard hit a step back three after faking the drive. I'm not sure where that ended up in the cut I'd have to look back.
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Re: Prospect Thread: James Wiseman 

Post#229 » by yosemiteben » Tue Sep 1, 2020 10:25 pm

Braggins doing work in these prospect and draft threads, my goodness.
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Re: Prospect Thread: James Wiseman 

Post#230 » by Braggins » Tue Sep 1, 2020 10:38 pm

James Gatz wrote:Great write up Braggins! More than willing to have someone watch back through and come to a different conclusion. I take more issue with people just watching a few highlight clips.

I'm about to have a birthday dinner with my girlfriend so this will be a little short but a quick reaction to your post:

You bring up one of the times I was referencing getting beat at 16:14. My thought that if a guy projected to go at the end of 2nd round next year is still able to get a shot up, even if he misses it doesn't bode well for Wiseman against guys with NBA burst. He does contest but its after the ball is already in the air if you slow it down. The other PnR where he was on island was against Pritchard where Pritchard hit a step back three after faking the drive. I'm not sure where that ended up in the cut I'd have to look back.

I thought the play at 16:14 seemed like the offensive player missed it because he was trying to loft it over Wisemans reach after he wasnt able to get seperation on his drive.

The other play you mentioned was at 16:51. His initial hedge was good and he gets in his stance and squares up well, but gave him a little too much space. He contested it well enough that it wasnt exactly an easy shot, but not really a difficult one for NBA guards.
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Re: Prospect Thread: James Wiseman 

Post#231 » by JMAC3 » Wed Sep 2, 2020 1:03 am

You guys are making sense..

Why risk it on a wing when we can take a solid starter in Wiseman.

I would much rather have Bridges than Porter Jr or Shai right now. Bridges was less risky and that move is paying off big for us now and we don’t regret it.

Same with Frank, why take a freshman guard in Booker who was a reserve and questionable athleticism when you can take a POY candidate who you know is safer. Same with Turner, he ran funny and had some injury concerns, super glad we played it safe.

Same thing this year, why take a wing who has an opportunity to make everybody around them better when you can draft a Mitchell Robinson clone who can rebound and dunk really well. Knicks must be dominating and playing that guy 36 mins a night. Oh wait he is only playing 23 mins? Why? Aren’t centers super important???


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Re: Prospect Thread: James Wiseman 

Post#232 » by wilson115 » Wed Sep 2, 2020 1:30 am

I can understand taking one of the taller point guards or Edwards over Wiseman and Okongwu. But what's the case for Avdija other than everyone looking for the next Luka? Doesn't he have his own flaws?
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Re: Prospect Thread: James Wiseman 

Post#233 » by yosemiteben » Wed Sep 2, 2020 2:17 am

JMAC3 wrote:You guys are making sense..

:roll:

I don't at all agree with the narrative that Bridges was viewed us the low ceiling safe pick, and comparing drafting OO or Wiseman to Frank is obviously disingenuous.

My point is this class **** sucks so let's make sure we get someone worth drafting.
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Re: Prospect Thread: James Wiseman 

Post#234 » by Vanderbilt_Grad » Sat Sep 5, 2020 1:22 am

As long as we are bringing up blasts from the past. Anyone Remember Noah Vonleh? Amazing measurements, great toolbox skills, guard like ability....

That's why I take all the physical stuff with Wiseman with a grain of salt.
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Re: Prospect Thread: James Wiseman 

Post#235 » by MasterIchiro » Sat Sep 5, 2020 1:32 am

Wiseman-o-saurus Rex. Becoming extinct.
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Re: Prospect Thread: James Wiseman 

Post#236 » by SWedd523 » Sat Sep 5, 2020 2:45 am

Vanderbilt_Grad wrote:As long as we are bringing up blasts from the past. Anyone Remember Noah Vonleh? Amazing measurements, great toolbox skills, guard like ability....

That's why I take all the physical stuff with Wiseman with a grain of salt.

You can literally play this game with just about any prospect, ever. :lol:
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Re: Prospect Thread: James Wiseman 

Post#237 » by BigSlam » Sat Sep 5, 2020 3:19 am

MasterIchiro wrote:Wiseman-o-saurus Rex. Becoming extinct.

While I might not agree, this made me LOL - as in full gut laugh.

Very well played.

It might replace “frankencentre” as my favourite nickname for a make shift centre.


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Re: Prospect Thread: James Wiseman 

Post#238 » by JMAC3 » Sat Sep 5, 2020 5:51 am

yosemiteben wrote:
JMAC3 wrote:You guys are making sense..

:roll:

I don't at all agree with the narrative that Bridges was viewed us the low ceiling safe pick, and comparing drafting OO or Wiseman to Frank is obviously disingenuous.

My point is this class **** sucks so let's make sure we get someone worth drafting.


That’s you assuming wisemen is something... when you have no certainty that he is better than other top players.

So if nobody knows for certain why take a guy who the nba is making obsolete.

In fact I feel more comfortable saying Bridges would play more minutes a game than Wiseman on a competitive playoff team.



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Re: Prospect Thread: James Wiseman 

Post#239 » by KingCat » Sat Sep 5, 2020 9:56 am

The more I watch these playoffs, the less I want to draft a big man early
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Re: Prospect Thread: James Wiseman 

Post#240 » by MasterIchiro » Sat Sep 5, 2020 2:25 pm

I mean, I don't think the Rockets will beat Lebron, but if they do, will it damage Wiseman's stock? Imagine if the Rockets made the NBA Finals without a traditional center. It's like they're trying to kill off the position.
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