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Prospect Thread: James Wiseman

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Re: Prospect Thread: James Wiseman 

Post#301 » by SWedd523 » Sat Sep 26, 2020 1:39 pm

He showed a fairly significantly higher rebounding and blocking potential than Okongwu.

Also posted a fairly significantly higher PER and Free Throw rate (and converted them around 70%, which is a good sign for his shooting potential... Higher than Toppin and Advija)

Also a higher eFG% and TS%
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Re: Prospect Thread: James Wiseman 

Post#302 » by DY_nasty » Sat Sep 26, 2020 9:36 pm

Its been a few months now and I still think you have to actively and deliberately talk yourself out of Wiseman while simultaneously propping up the rest of the class.
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Re: Prospect Thread: James Wiseman 

Post#303 » by Vanderbilt_Grad » Sat Sep 26, 2020 11:35 pm

DY_nasty wrote:Its been a few months now and I still think you have to actively and deliberately talk yourself out of Wiseman while simultaneously propping up the rest of the class.

This is clearly not true. If you like Wiseman that's fine, but there is no consensus on him at all. You can find people wanting him as high as 2nd and draft boards where he's 16th.

Small sample size is a problem in general this year, but nowhere more so than Wiseman.
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Re: Prospect Thread: James Wiseman 

Post#304 » by luciano-davidwesley » Sat Sep 26, 2020 11:58 pm

Vanderbilt_Grad wrote:
DY_nasty wrote:Its been a few months now and I still think you have to actively and deliberately talk yourself out of Wiseman while simultaneously propping up the rest of the class.

This is clearly not true. If you like Wiseman that's fine, but there is no consensus on him at all. You can find people wanting him as high as 2nd and draft boards where he's 16th.

Small sample size is a problem in general this year, but nowhere more so than Wiseman.


Anyone who has Wiseman ranked as the 16th best prospect in this draft class has been hitting the crack pipe pretty hard.
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Re: Prospect Thread: James Wiseman 

Post#305 » by James Gatz » Sun Sep 27, 2020 3:01 am

SWedd523 wrote:He showed a fairly significantly higher rebounding and blocking potential than Okongwu.

Also posted a fairly significantly higher PER and Free Throw rate (and converted them around 70%, which is a good sign for his shooting potential... Higher than Toppin and Advija)

Also a higher eFG% and TS%


As previously discussed, 3 games in college, two against low tiered schools, isn't a large enough sample to build an argument around him in any meaningful way. His AAU rebounding numbers were really putrid for a big his size. I believe it was 6.1 per game.

He might end up being a good rebounder, but that falls in the list of uncertainty.
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Re: Prospect Thread: James Wiseman 

Post#306 » by Liver_Pooty » Sun Sep 27, 2020 3:11 am

For what it's worth he averaged 16 and 6 in AAU in only 20 minutes a game. So theres that.
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Re: Prospect Thread: James Wiseman 

Post#307 » by BigSlam » Sun Sep 27, 2020 3:47 am

KGdaBom wrote:Wiseman is a lot like a not fully developed Chris Bosh only bigger. He's the best talent in the draft.
Give him a couple years and he could be a superstar.

I don’t really see the Bosh comparison (other than being lefty).

Bosh had those tight spin moves and was really quick for his size. I think Wiseman is agile and mobile, but not Bosh level agile and mobile.

The guy he reminds me of is Aldridge when he was coming out of Texas. Aldridge could really get up and down the court and had a nice inside game to compliment his mid range game.

If Wiseman could be Aldridge like with better rim protection that would be pretty awesome.


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Re: Prospect Thread: James Wiseman 

Post#308 » by James Gatz » Sun Sep 27, 2020 3:52 am

Liver_Pooty wrote:For what it's worth he averaged 16 and 6 in AAU in only 20 minutes a game. So theres that.

Wiseman was the 42nd best rebounder in EYBL that year per 36. I'm doubtful someone who wasn't a good rebounder in AAU will be an elite one in the NBA.

Some other prospects who played in the same league:

Isaiah Stewart 11.2 rpg - 10 mpg

Jaden McDaniels 8.8 rpg - 20.9 mpg

Veron Carey 6.5 rpg - 8.9 mpg
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Re: Prospect Thread: James Wiseman 

Post#309 » by Liver_Pooty » Sun Sep 27, 2020 4:11 am

James Gatz wrote:
Liver_Pooty wrote:For what it's worth he averaged 16 and 6 in AAU in only 20 minutes a game. So theres that.

Wiseman was the 42nd best rebounder in EYBL that year per 36. I'm doubtful someone who wasn't a good rebounder in AAU will be an elite one in the NBA.

Some other prospects who played in the same league:

Isaiah Stewart 11.2 rpg - 10 mpg

Jaden McDaniels 8.8 rpg - 20.9 mpg

Veron Carey 6.5 rpg - 8.9 mpg


Didn't know that. Ill have to start digging into the aau stats more
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Re: Prospect Thread: James Wiseman 

Post#310 » by KGdaBom » Sun Sep 27, 2020 4:22 am

luciano-davidwesley wrote:I think Wiseman is clearly the highest upside player in the draft. It's a no brainer in my eye we pick him over anyone if he's available.

The arguement we don't pick him because Steph Curry/centers are dead is just stupid to me. Give it 1-10 years and I'm sure some big will come along (possibly even Wiseman) who changes the game and everyone will be creaming over centers again and saying wings are a dime a dozen like has normally been the case.

Pick the player with the most potential to be special to me that's Wiseman.

Correctamundo. :D
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Re: Prospect Thread: James Wiseman 

Post#311 » by KGdaBom » Sun Sep 27, 2020 4:25 am

BigSlam wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:Wiseman is a lot like a not fully developed Chris Bosh only bigger. He's the best talent in the draft.
Give him a couple years and he could be a superstar.

I don’t really see the Bosh comparison (other than being lefty).

Bosh had those tight spin moves and was really quick for his size. I think Wiseman is agile and mobile, but not Bosh level agile and mobile.

The guy he reminds me of is Aldridge when he was coming out of Texas. Aldridge could really get up and down the court and had a nice inside game to compliment his mid range game.

If Wiseman could be Aldridge like with better rim protection that would be pretty awesome.


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Not a bad comp. Bosh/Aldridge not all that different.
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Re: Prospect Thread: James Wiseman 

Post#312 » by Rich4114 » Mon Sep 28, 2020 4:19 pm

BigSlam wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:Wiseman is a lot like a not fully developed Chris Bosh only bigger. He's the best talent in the draft.
Give him a couple years and he could be a superstar.

I don’t really see the Bosh comparison (other than being lefty).

Bosh had those tight spin moves and was really quick for his size. I think Wiseman is agile and mobile, but not Bosh level agile and mobile.

The guy he reminds me of is Aldridge when he was coming out of Texas. Aldridge could really get up and down the court and had a nice inside game to compliment his mid range game.

If Wiseman could be Aldridge like with better rim protection that would be pretty awesome.


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I'm with you on that. I think Aldridge is a fair comparison in terms of how he looked coming out of Texas.
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Re: Prospect Thread: James Wiseman 

Post#313 » by Rich4114 » Mon Sep 28, 2020 4:21 pm

The whole small sample size for me just doesn't carry much weight. I go back to the bigs who came out of high school with much less scouting and zero sample size. Dwight Howard had no sample size. You can't teach his size and he has some natural skill that looks like it translates well to the NBA. He will have to get stronger and more refined like any 19 year old. Sure, one of the other guys after him could end up being better but if that happens nobody can really blame us. If we could've taken Wiseman and don't, then he becomes the next big C in the NBA we once again look stupid.
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Re: Prospect Thread: James Wiseman 

Post#314 » by KGdaBom » Mon Sep 28, 2020 4:23 pm

Rich4114 wrote:The whole small sample size for me just doesn't carry much weight. I go back to the bigs who came out of high school with much less scouting and zero sample size. Dwight Howard had no sample size. You can't teach his size and he has some natural skill that looks like it translates well to the NBA. He will have to get stronger and more refined like any 19 year old. Sure, one of the other guys after him could end up being better but if that happens nobody can really blame us. If we could've taken Wiseman and don't, then he becomes the next big C in the NBA we once again look stupid.

Yep. Many players have been drafted with zero college sample and been just fine. Wiseman IMO is easily the best talent in the draft.
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Re: Prospect Thread: James Wiseman 

Post#315 » by James Gatz » Mon Sep 28, 2020 4:50 pm

There are some bigs without college games that have been excellent. KG, Amari, O'Neal, Howard.

There are also bigs like Kwame Brown, Eddy Curry, Robert Swift, Jonathan Bender, and must we not forget our guy Desangana Diop. These guys were equally hyped in some cases who didn't work out. It's more likely these mystery box guys don't work than do work out.

There is no definitive way of knowing which one Wiseman will be. The lack of college sample just makes him more of a risk than other guys we've seen play more at a higher competition levels. This is why I think it's important to consider AAU stats, which don't paint Wiseman in great light. He should/could have improved drastically since then, but there is no way to know with any certainty.
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Re: Prospect Thread: James Wiseman 

Post#316 » by DY_nasty » Mon Sep 28, 2020 6:15 pm

AAU stats are about as legit as monopoly money
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Re: Prospect Thread: James Wiseman 

Post#317 » by amcoolio » Mon Sep 28, 2020 6:22 pm

I have Wiseman in the middle of those two groups. I like him and wouldn't be mad if we took him, but I do agree that you need playmaking guards and forwards to win and not traditional centers.
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Re: Prospect Thread: James Wiseman 

Post#318 » by KGdaBom » Mon Sep 28, 2020 6:48 pm

amcoolio wrote:I have Wiseman in the middle of those two groups. I like him and wouldn't be mad if we took him, but I do agree that you need playmaking guards and forwards to win and not traditional centers.

Is Wiseman a traditional center? If 21 year old Shaq was in this draft would he be worthy of consideration. He's very much a traditional center, but so good at it that I think I would still take him #1.
How well do you think modern defenses geared to shutting down the 3 would do defending him?
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Re: Prospect Thread: James Wiseman 

Post#319 » by James Gatz » Mon Sep 28, 2020 7:14 pm

DY_nasty wrote:AAU stats are about as legit as monopoly money

So what are we to base our evaluation on? Just random chance that a physical large human will be good at basketball?

I'd rather use college stats than AAU ones but I'd rather use a larger sample than a super small one.
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Re: Prospect Thread: James Wiseman 

Post#320 » by DY_nasty » Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:05 pm

James Gatz wrote:
DY_nasty wrote:AAU stats are about as legit as monopoly money

So what are we to base our evaluation on? Just random chance that a physical large human will be good at basketball?

I'd rather use college stats than AAU ones but I'd rather use a larger sample than a super small one.

AAU gets their money from inflating stats and putting their premier guys in the best possible light for scouts - then scamming parents and schools when it comes to the other 99% of players who essentially get a carrot on a stick dangled in front of them. There's key matchups to watch and head to heads against the best of the best. But those are rare for a reason.

Don't want to sound like I'm being negative all the time - but this is a bad draft for reasons such as these. Its impossible to evaluate a lot of these top picks because of the odd circumstances surrounding them all and its going to be even worse when they're likely not going to produce until at least the 2022 season due to the lack of meaningful camp and compacted season.

Wiseman was the perennial favorite of this class for far longer than all of these other guys though. I think that any argument used against him is only amplified against others in the class when argued the same way. If an inconsistent body of work has someone on the fence about Wiseman, then it should be even bigger against LaMelo. If his defensive versatility is a question, then Toppin is undraftable. If his IQ is on the fence, then Edwards has to be raked over coals. If Okongqu is favorable due to fit, then Wiseman fills a hole we've had for the past 10 years. The same measuring stick needs to apply to everyone.

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